[MBTI General] Why do some thinkers demonize feelers?

[substitute]

So it's more of a utilitarian view of people, not a judgmental one.

Yes, this echoes my thoughts on seeing the title of this thread, how the word 'demonize' suggests a value judgement, precisely the kind of thing that's at the bedrock of F/T misunderstandings in many cases: the F makes value judgements and therefore, when hearing the T making their judgements (which are usually utilitarian and not morally driven) they believe they're being value-judged. It's a classic case of people attributing their own motives and meanings to others, inappropriately.

I can't think of many T's who'd outright say F's were 'demonic'. But quite a lot would probably say they can be difficult to deal with (from the T's POV obviously) and so their opinions are more to do with utility, strategy, analysis sorta thing than deciding or saying whether a person is good or bad as a person.

Personally thoughts of whether someone's good or bad rarely enter my head, including when it comes to when I'm deciding what sort of dealings I'd like to have with them.

It's all the more intriguing then that the title that got me thinking "that's EXACTLY the kind of wrong assessment of my assessment that a Feeler would make!" was actually by a Thinker!

*spanks Laser*

 

[Hang]

I don't think Feelers a better than resolving their feelings more than anyone because they are so emotional.

As I've seen on this forum, lots of Ts just don't understand the way Fs function. Some Ts base their outlooks on Fs by the defintion of Feelers, or their experience, either way, the Fs are not going to like it because it doesn't meet up to their standard.

 

[Anja]

The "demonization" factor comes in, from my perspective, when we are talking about a Tee or an Eff who haven't yet fully developed their potential.

Substitute's observations appear to be those regarding healthy ways to deal with those who are different.

I believe that Feelers who react in an emotional manner simply haven't yet realized that it is important not to allow their feelings to control their behavior. In this Thinkers seem accurate. Takes a while to learn that when feelings are so overwhelming. And it can't take place with only the help of a self-help book. It requires face-to-face effort.

While immature Feelers appear irrational and out of control to Thinkers, an undeveloped Thinker can appear agonizingly self-superior to a Feeler.

There's an implied threat in both youthful styles to one's well-being or one's own shaky sense of development and confidence.

Patience is what is called for and what youth, especially in this time of instant gratification, has yet to learn.

I find my patience sorely tried watching the kinds of mindgames that some play while interacting in forums and need to look in the mirror of my past to collect my sensibilities!

And as a Feeler, reading the subtle, and obvious, pokes at others' tender points can be a painful experience.

Secret: My first response to this as a Feeler? *$&#%#*&$*!

 

[Anja]

And more.

It seems obvious to me that we don't need to understand where another is coming from. I truly enjoy those of us who are interested in pursuing understanding.

All that's required in civil discourse is - civility!

 

[Domino]

And more.

It seems obvious to me that we don't need to understand where another is coming from. I truly enjoy those of us who are interested in pursuing understanding.

All that's required in civil discourse is - civility!

And sharks wearing lazer hats!

 

[Shadowrose]

Yes, this echoes my thoughts on seeing the title of this thread, how the word 'demonize' suggests a value judgement, precisely the kind of thing that's at the bedrock of F/T misunderstandings in many cases: the F makes value judgements and therefore, when hearing the T making their judgements (which are usually utilitarian and not morally driven) they believe they're being value-judged. It's a classic case of people attributing their own motives and meanings to others, inappropriately.

I'm actually amazed how prevalent this really is.. it always baffles me when people project themselves on someone else, and then refuse to understand that there -is- a difference. I mean, people aren't identical. Most people aren't even similar!

I can't think of many T's who'd outright say F's were 'demonic'. But quite a lot would probably say they can be difficult to deal with (from the T's POV obviously) and so their opinions are more to do with utility, strategy, analysis sorta thing than deciding or saying whether a person is good or bad as a person.

Oh, I know a few F's I'd say, outright, that are 'demonic'. But, by no means would I dare attribute this to all of them. I know too many really awesome ones that are downright 'angelic'.

Personally thoughts of whether someone's good or bad rarely enter my head, including when it comes to when I'm deciding what sort of dealings I'd like to have with them.

Y'know, thoughts of good or bad enter my intellectual mind, if only as an observation.. "You know, this person is a really bad person. Oh well, we have business to take care of." I'll, frankly, work with most people regardless of how greater society judges their actions. So long as they don't personally wrong me (which is admittedly difficult to do..), we'll be fine. I have a good, strong moral compass. It just doesn't always point straight.

 

[Snail]

Bwa ha ha, thank you!

Ironically, a true thinker would really be looking at feelers dispassionately and acceptingly rather than feeling negative emotions about feelers - apparently emotions such as disdain, fear, dislike, aversion, annoyance, etc.

Interesting you picked the word demonize. I don't know how deeply you thought about your word choice, but it is suggestive to me of projecting their disowned and distorted shadow onto feelers.

I wonder, though, if it ever works the other way. Do feelers ever act out thinker fantasies? (I guess that's another thread/poll.)

Brilliant!

 

[Alpha Prime]

Alpha, I've reviewed my threads and I see no where where I have said that "a heart should be worn on one's sleeve." I certainly don't believe that's a wise thing to do.

By being unclear of what you actually were talking about, you seemed to be debating the validity of my point, by negating it.

See, what I was doing was offering you a suggestion that may help you in getting your ideas across in a way which will encourage others to sit up and listen. I would guess that everyone would like help in that area, including myself.

Ohh, this shiznit is beginning to make sense now. Next time, please, be direct. I don't like it when people beat around the bush, it wastes my time, and respect towards the other person.

Rereading. "The word should does not imply that there is only one way. . ."

What dictionary are you using?

Apparently you are not using any of the standard ones.

Bwa ha ha, thank you!

Ironically, a true thinker would really be looking at feelers dispassionately and acceptingly rather than feeling negative emotions about feelers - apparently emotions such as disdain, fear, dislike, aversion, annoyance, etc.

Interesting you picked the word demonize. I don't know how deeply you thought about your word choice, but it is suggestive to me of projecting their disowned and distorted shadow onto feelers.

I wonder, though, if it ever works the other way. Do feelers ever act out thinker fantasies? (I guess that's another thread/poll.)

No human is 100% T/F, so this is to be expected.

I enjoy the reasoning in your posts.

 

[Anja]

Alpha, I'm not going to apologize to you for wasting your time since you, as everyone here, have to manage that on your own.

I will say that I am sorry that my post was confusing to you. Sometimes I can be unclear. I'll make an effort to be as blunt as I can manage in the future should I post to you directly. I suggest that next you are uncertain about any of my posts I'll be glad to try to clear up any questions that you have before you make a decision. No waste of my time, at all.

I'll add that I rarely waste my own time fussing over people's respect for me. None of my business! Works for me.

I'm all for clear communication. . .

 

[Martian Manifesto]

Ts vs Fs

I don't know about all T vs F but I have a lot of experience with INFJ friends and INTJ friends (have a bunch of both)....in general I find my INTJ friends a bit chilly emotionally but not in a bad way...and they can be a bit on the rough side...but this doesn't seem to bother me as much as it does my INFP girlfriend....she finds their interaction style much more "mean" than I do...I find it oddly charming and calming....

...sometimes I don't want to be calmed, I want to be understood....then I usually go for an INFJ or INFP...but once the emotionally charged elements have been handled, then I like to vet things with my INTJs...they are better at "vetting"...so for me it is more of a "what is being addressed" and "what stage/arena are we in"...

My thoughts/feelings gain strength and validity from my NF friends which is vital in the beginning...but I value the NTs very much because they make my visions/ideas/feelings/concepts more "complete"...which is vital (if you are a J) I think

BUT...I would be VERY CAREFUL about bringing "raw" stuff to my T friends...my INTJ friends are all very considerate of my F and my "raw stuff...feeling and intuitions" but they don't do the best job of "nurturing"...

So long story short, I think both are great and necessary

 

[Brooke]

My mom is a hardcore T and when she saw my results, she goes "Why are you such a feeler? Why don't you be more of a thinker?" LOL. She was kidding mostly, but I think that most thinkers think pretty exactly that about us feelers. In truth, I find it both annoying and amusing.

 

[Mondo]

I don't think most Thinkers view Feelers the same way BlueWing does- I wouldn't call him the role model of the Thinker group.

 

[Domino]

I tried to be more T when it was clear that my F was unacceptable. Wore me out.

 

[Anja]

There you are, Pink. Might as well ask a leopard to change their spots.

I wasted years trying to think in a linear fashion.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

There you are, Pink. Might as well ask a leopard to change their spots.

I wasted years trying to think in a linear fashion.

Well, often linearity vs non-linearity has more to do with S vs N.

 

[SquirrelTao]

Well, often linearity vs non-linearity has more to do with S vs N.

That's interesting. Why do you believe that?

 

[Anja]

I can see that. Yes. I'd also like to hear more about that. . .

 

[Simplexity]

S's tend to see things as they are ( great at more rote oriented style teaching)

N's tend to see the underlying connections and lose sight of what is ( better at discussing concepts, but terrible at strict defining)

S's are more apt to notice each step that leads to a conclusion. they are great at listing procedures in a linear way.

N's are more apt to see the multiple steps(*different perspectives as well) it takes to lead to a conclusion at once, so they forgo listing each of them and just arrive at the conclusion in a non sequential or even linear way.

 

[Brooke]

I don't think most Thinkers view Feelers the same way BlueWing does- I wouldn't call him the role model of the Thinker group.

Ok, I keep seeing references to BlueWing but I'm and I don't know who that is... Anyone care to clue me in?

 

[Anja]

I am new here myself, Brooke. I suppose Blue Wing is another member of the group here.

I imagine lack of response to your question is a courtesy offered in reluctance to speak of someone with them not present.

And hello.