[NF] Why Immature F-ers give me the creeps?

[Jack Flak]

I like the way you put it, but I disagree on F not being productive. If there was no feelers, there wouldn't be many groups that would stay together. People just wont survive without groups and their organization is very much feeling based.

+1. Diverse groups of specialized people increase productivity--in art, science, industry, etc.

 

[cafe]

First, I don't think there is any such thing as a person being really objective.

Second, 'logic' in decision making is about efficiency, IOW, what is the best way to achieve my goal, but making a choice about what goal you pursue is always based on a value judgment. The logic is just a means to an end and your selfishness or lack there of is only as good as the altruism/consideration of your goal.

Utilitarianism might be considered a 'logical' kind of value system, but how does one define what is the greatest good for the greatest number of people? Must one not make a value judgment?

"I felt like it" is a totally lame reason to make a decision no matter your type unless the decision is about something as trivial as choosing what flavor of ice cream you want.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

I always find it easiest to understand things through metaphors and examples. If one of our more creative members were to create a few simple scenarios that require us to make a decision, we could then probably see the difference between a feelers approach to that of a thinker. The catch is, the designer of the scenario must really be detailed about the situation, and the people responding must be very detailed in their responses.

How about it? Does anyone have any nice scenarios that we can respond to, in hopes of comparing the maybe different approaches of T’s vs. F’s?

 

[Haphazard]

Think of it this way.

I heard a statistic once that about 75% of women are feelers and 45% of men.

This can make thinkers rather lonesome. One can only be called an 'unfeeling psychopath' so many times before it starts to get under one's skin.

 

[runvardh]

Heh, being a feeling male doesn't exactly exempt you from people calling you things that get under your skin, trust me....

 

[SolitaryWalker]

First of all don't be offended by the title I just thought it was funny.

F people creep me out. I don't understand them. I see making decisions off of your feelings as selfish and irrisponsible. The worst excuse ever, "I felt like it", like that matters. If people justify their actions according to their feelings where is the line that says what you were feeling is wrong. It seems immature. How is putting your feelings on someone else productive to anything? Where is the self control? You cant argue against what someone is feeling and asking someone to take your feelings into account is like asking them to cater unobjectively to you.

I am not trying to make people mad here I am trying to understand. What makes you all tick?

There is no rationality behind this.

They simply do what they feel is right. Fs with a well developed T however, are slightly different. They are value driven, but not ruled by their feelings. Unlike Ts, they prefer not to make decisions based on what appears to be of highest utility to the given situation (though they could because of their proficiency with thinking), but rather envision their ideal self. They then use logic to make sure they are as in tune with that self as possible.

This is irresponsible in the regard that it has the potential ignores the many important aspects of the current situation which may be irrelevant to their personal quest for the ideal self. This kind of decision making is most common among INFJs, the most Thinking oriented of NFs. This may be irresponsible, but not nearly as much as the behavior of hard-core Fs, theirs is altogether whimsical.

However, the only thing Feelers without a well developed Thinking function could say is that their Feelings are valid and thats period. Must do as they feel no matter what.

Is this a good idea? They are not concerned, as one needs thinking faculties to critically examine such a question. They by default assume it is a good idea in order to give affirmation to their feelings.

Sorry about your break up with a F'er. Yes, most logical thing is to swear off feelers for life and paint them with the broad brush of everything that went wrong with your lover. lol. I done the same thing years ago about thinkers without realizing then the difference between thinker and feelers in mbti terms.

For the sake of this discussion. Lets assume that the OP was inspired by a bad experience with an F. Just like you once were led to have negative feelings about Ts due to bad experiences with them.

In your case, it was only an emotional reaction.

In this case, it is an emotional reaction, but not only that. It is also an argument for the existence of the vices of Feelers mentioned in the OP.

The emotional reaction bit is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not the statement made is true. Above we see an argument for why making decisions based on Feelings is irresponsible. We have not yet seen an argument for the vices of Thinkers from you.

For this reason, we cannot hold the two claims side by side.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Think of it this way.

I heard a statistic once that about 75% of women are feelers and 45% of men.

This can make thinkers rather lonesome. One can only be called an 'unfeeling psychopath' so many times before it starts to get under one's skin.

I wonder if those percentages are reliable. I remember reading that F and T is rather evenly distributed among the population as a whole but women generally test as F and men test as T. Who knows why this is, maybe they test to be what is socially acceptable of them.

 

[cafe]

The majority of my family are Ts and they are no more of a problem for me to deal with than the F. The only time I really have problems with Ts (usually online) is when they think they are being objective despite the evidence to the contrary and refuse to see other viewpoints.

 

[digesthisickness]

it probably could have been said better, thatgirl, but if it helps, i get what you were trying to say.

that said, you should have known better. threads like these never ever end well.

 

[Tigerlily]

Immature and narrow minded view you have there. Just as with other types, feelers have their valuable place in society.

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Many thousands of years ago... ancient Indians, both Vedantic and Buddhist, told us that being in touch with our selves, including our emotional selves, would enable us to change not only ourselves, but also the world. They operated not 'mystically', but experimentally and rationally, to come to this insight, though they also opened themselves up to feel themselves and the world around them, thus enabling their intellectual insights to come to fruition... Other people in other times and places have come to the same conclusions by similar means...

Today, quantum physicists are reluctantly telling us the same thing.

So I'd say Feeling is not only all-too-human (which should recommend it most highly), but also all-too-important to be dismissed as lightly as some are wont to do... <ahem, Bluewing>

 

[cafe]

it probably could have been said better, thatgirl, but if it helps, i get what you were trying to say.

that said, you should have known better. threads like these never ever end well.

I get what she's saying, but I think it's wrong to ascribe that kind of behavior to Feeling. It's a function of being irresponsible and inconsiderate not a function of type.

 

[digesthisickness]

I get what she's saying, but I think it's wrong to ascribe that kind of behavior to Feeling. It's a function of being irresponsible and inconsiderate not a function of type.

i didn't say she was right. i said i got what she was saying.

for instance, i didn't assume she started the thread or had an observation, right or wrong, because some F must have broken her heart.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

What's hard for me to get is the idea of using T to override F.
What if you would be happier with the decision chosen by strong F, yet you override it because you think it's "illogical". Wouldnt the end result of what makes you feel the best be the better choice?

 

[2XtremeENFP]

All people want to live a happy life and making decisions that look out for your feelings make the most sense to me, instead of trying to talk yourself out of feeling based decisions.

you feel a certain way for a reason

 

[cafe]

i didn't say she was right. i said i got what she was saying.

for instance, i didn't assume she started the thread or had an observation, right or wrong, because some F must have broken her heart.

No, there wasn't any indication of that, IMO. Annoyed by the behavior of people she perceives as Feelers is as far as I would go with any kind of speculation in that direction.

 

[digesthisickness]

All people want to live a happy life and making decisions that look out for your feelings make the most sense to me, instead of trying to talk yourself out of feeling based decisions.

you feel a certain way for a reason

OR... now brace yourself... some other people are happiest dealing with their own emotions their own way. it, and you may want to sit down for this, doesn't have to make sense to you.

 

[disregard]

All people want to live a happy life and making decisions that look out for your feelings make the most sense to me, instead of trying to talk yourself out of feeling based decisions.

you feel a certain way for a reason

But taking care of your short-term happiness does not always ensure long-term happiness, and may often pose threat to it.

 

[cafe]

It seems pretty obvious that most people pursue happiness. We just don't all have the same things that make us happy and we have different ways of going about it. Making decisions based only on the emotions of the moment is almost always a bad idea for long-term happiness. There are a lot of factors that go into making a good decision. How one is feeling right now is only one of those factors and, IMO, not a very big one.

 

[heart]

i didn't say she was right. i said i got what she was saying.

for instance, i didn't assume she started the thread or had an observation, right or wrong, because some F must have broken her heart.

I didn't assume that either, I read it on this board. She went straight from that thread to this one and said basically the same things here about Feelers that she did about her Feeler BF.