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[NF] NFs, how do you deal with Thinking...

Nansense

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Aug 26, 2008
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7
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ENFP
I never end a friendship (or relationship with a relative) without telling the other person in no uncertain terms why and giving them a chance and a second chance to give me what I am not getting from them, be it respect, good boundaries or whatever.

The problem I have seen is that people don't take me seriously when I tell them "Hey, we have a real problem and this is what it is." I think part of that problem is my quiet off line nature leads some people into believing I am weak and that I won't hold to my word if I say that there will be consequenses for actions.

I find the same thing! I never end a relationship until after I've made that effort to explain what's not working for me, what's hurting me.

Actually, I don't "end" relationships. What happens is, I give people chance after chance, and I share and share, always hoping for the best, and then one day I wake up and see their true colors. Once I've seen that, it's over, because it's become clear that the person is someone whom I would not choose to have in my life. There's no anger or resentment, I'm just not there anymore. I can't be. I have nothing left to give. At that point, I feel very empty inside, and it takes me months to fill myself back up again.

Unfortunately, I don't explain to the other person, which isn't good. At that point, I don't believe they'd understand anyway, so I don't even waste the effort.

(This off-topic to the thinking/feeling thing, but anyway.)
 

SquirrelTao

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May 28, 2008
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198
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INXX
I disagree that the world requires impersonal logic. I've found that to get by in the world, I need to do more when I communicate with a manager, co-worker or customer besides, "I report, you decide". I've found that if I communicate in a "I report, you decide" way, the majority of people do not know how to react. I've found I need to give them an emotional component as well, and that when I do, the communication goes much better. Even with a manager. Because they are looking for it, whether they realize it or not.

They need those emotional cues. Even the ISTJ I worked for. Even the ESTJ did. Without those emotional cues, people don't know how much they are supposed to expect or what they are supposed to expect, among other things. In all reality, I've found things don't go well if I'm expecting to just give an authority information and then let them make a decision with it using their own judgement. Because they really do not know how to judge on the basis of just raw information alone.

In reality, people hardly ever think without emotional and social cues mixed in generously with logic, because they rely upon the emotional and social components to make their thought processes more efficient. This ends up working okay many times but also can get irrational. I think it's okay to go with this normal way of thinking, unless there is a problem that needs to be solved. It's the problems that need the more strict and hard thinking.
 

alcea rosea

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Nov 11, 2007
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3,658
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7w6
This was my question to you in the last thread concerning the subject...

How do you cope with this being your third or fourth function when the world forces you too often to make impersonal judgments...

I can't think because I'm a feeler. I just feel emotionally and irrationally everything. :shock:

blaa blaa blaa. The same T-F song is playing again.
 

mlittrell

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9w1
If you learn to handle your Te, it will do you wonders. Learn to use Te.
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
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7w8
Growing up, I was always a very strong F, but in the last 4 or 5 years I've been using Te pretty effectively.

I'm 33 years old now and becoming more balanced all the time.:D

EDIT: Here's my stats:

Extraverted[56]Intuitive[50]Feeling[38] Perceiving[56]

moderately expressed extravert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

moderately expressed feeling personality

moderately expressed perceiving personality


:party2:
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
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Oct 24, 2008
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I could not disagree more with this statement. I never end a friendship (or relationship with a relative) without telling the other person in no uncertain terms why and giving them a chance and a second chance to give me what I am not getting from them, be it respect, good boundaries or whatever.

The problem I have seen is that people don't take me seriously when I tell them "Hey, we have a real problem and this is what it is." I think part of that problem is my quiet off line nature leads some people into believing I am weak and that I won't hold to my word if I say that there will be consequenses for actions.

Maybe an immature INFP would blow up one day and storm out over something small but I don't believe a mature one would.

Heart, I tend to agree with this. I also think when we see the writing on the wall though, others don't.
It's a rare person who actually listens, and acknowledges what is being said when limits have been hit.
 

Nonsensical

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7
Well, I think I might be too uneducated to answer here, but as far as thinking goes, I can be aware of it, but most of the time, it look completely past it. I don't know if that's good or bad, because when I'm really moved, emotionally, my Fi will totally take charge, and all logic is pushed aside. So, sorry if that was too general, but it's the best I can do..I'm not used to thinking about it.
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
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Well, I think I might be too uneducated to answer here, but as far as thinking goes, I can be aware of it, but most of the time, it look completely past it. I don't know if that's good or bad, because when I'm really moved, emotionally, my Fi will totally take charge, and all logic is pushed aside. So, sorry if that was too general, but it's the best I can do..I'm not used to thinking about it.
LOL. I think too much, but can't always verbalise it. Frustrating to say the least. The english language has it's limitations. Sometimes I wish I could show people what's in my head.
 

cascadeco

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This was my question to you in the last thread concerning the subject...

How do you cope with this being your third or fourth function when the world forces you too often to make impersonal judgments...

I find this question amusing.

It's news to me that I have to 'deal with Thinking' and cope with it and be forced to make impersonal judgments.

I think all of the time. I want things to make sense, and I need things to make sense. I don't even view my everyday real life as my sifting through 'values', vs. 'logic', and having to choose one over the other. I simply make decisions based on the situation at hand, and sometimes they can be quite impersonal - as not everything in life is personal. But the distinction is that I don't have to *treat* people in an impersonal way when discussing or delivering my decision. And sometimes it is more important to me to factor in other peoples' needs to make what I consider the best decision possible. That's never everything, though. I juggle many factors.
 

Wild horses

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Oct 25, 2008
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Not very well I'm afraid... You see I don't actually have a brain in my skull just excess heart that would not fit into my chest cavity... :( It seems I may have too much heart It's a tough life :D
 

Moiety

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Aug 3, 2008
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I deal with thinking just fine. I'm thinking all the time. Ta Dah!
 

Lady_X

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i know right...bluewing is the master at asking ridiculous questions.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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I find this question amusing.

It's news to me that I have to 'deal with Thinking' and cope with it and be forced to make impersonal judgments.

I think all of the time. I want things to make sense, and I need things to make sense. I don't even view my everyday real life as my sifting through 'values', vs. 'logic', and having to choose one over the other.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. But of course the title of the OP is intended to be provocative, in order to elicit response. :devil:
 

ragashree

Reason vs Being
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I agree wholeheartedly with this. But of course the title of the OP is intended to be provocative, in order to elicit response. :devil:

Har har, nothing if not predictable, that one :rolleyes2: He's just trying to validate his own somewhat surreal and actually highly subjective prejudices. Probably better just not to feed him, as nothing you say will change his mind so far as I can see. Or even be acknowledged if it contradicts his preconcieved ideas.
 

eclare

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Jan 6, 2009
Messages
139
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I find this question amusing.

It's news to me that I have to 'deal with Thinking' and cope with it and be forced to make impersonal judgments.

I think all of the time. I want things to make sense, and I need things to make sense. I don't even view my everyday real life as my sifting through 'values', vs. 'logic', and having to choose one over the other. I simply make decisions based on the situation at hand, and sometimes they can be quite impersonal - as not everything in life is personal. But the distinction is that I don't have to *treat* people in an impersonal way when discussing or delivering my decision. And sometimes it is more important to me to factor in other peoples' needs to make what I consider the best decision possible. That's never everything, though. I juggle many factors.



Bingo. The thing is, as far as I'm concerned my values are perfectly logical. I may feel something instantaneously but I have no problem examining that feeling from a logical standpoint and determining how it fits into my broader value system. I think that people assume that "cold, hard, logic" can only refer to those things that are tangibly quantifiable, when in fact it is perfectly logical to weigh emotional reactions into the equation.


(Warning - legal geek speak ahead)

For those of you who are at all familiar with legal scholarship, there is a reason that Judge Richard Posner is considered brilliant but utterly insane. Even moreso than most Law & Economics disciples, he relies entirely on cost/benefit analyses to make a decision. The problem is that he does not factor in the human costs that are involved in those decisions. So he'll write controversial articles on why there should be a legal market for selling babies, and is utterly baffled as to why anyone would be made uncomfortable by the suggestion. To me he epitomizes false logic that is based on a faulty premise - that premise being that wealth maximization should be the goal of society.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
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.
ENFP friendships (as I picture them) are shallower in a sense, but by the same token they are more transparent; that is, at least people tend to know where they stand in their friendship with ENFPs. ENFPs have a more realistic picture of their friends, and they'll make an effort to fit you in someplace in their life where you'll interact well with their own needs and wants. As long as you remain a good fit, they'll be loyal in return and won't hold your failings against you. They don't keep a scorecard, and they don't blow up on you. If you maintain an ongoing interaction with them, you can expect some real longevity. But it's true that they are social animals: If you drift apart or go without interacting for a while, ENFPs will seek interaction elsewhere. I think you have to keep the relationship current and up to date with them; you can't just drop it and then expect to pick it back up a couple months later with the same intensity and activities as before. (And that may be a problem for INTPs who are unpredictable in their friendship habits.)

FL

FL, I always enjoy your perspectives, and I think you did really well. There's only one thing that is different for me. When I part with friends, because they move away or life gets in the way, I suck at keeping in touch. However, depending on our history, I can pick up where we left off the moment we happen to run in to each other. Yes, I suck at seting up sceduled appointments to see them again, and I keep postponing it. But when we get the logistics out of the way, it's like we just talked yesterday and the connection is instantly revived. Unfortunately, daily life demands so much attention that I'm truly too distracted to keep in touch when not seeing them as part of my daily routine. But when in need, they can always call me.

There are exceptions of course. Sometimes people change overtime, including me, and then the connection may no longer be there. Or something happened in the past that is best left alone. Or sometimes the nature of your relationship changes. If you had a very intense emotional relationship, it is only natural that it takes a while to build back up to that same intensity, if that happens at all. That doesn't mean however that they're no longer welcome in my life. Also, the paranoia you speak of later in the thread, only really happens with truly intense emotional friendships, I've found and only right after that intensity has been disrupted. If the cause for this is known, I get over that relatively easily, otherwise you always keep wondering what happened. But it's unlikley to keep going for several months and unless there was some kind of fall-out, my door would still be open to them later on.


Anycase, just my two cents,
Amargith
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
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Something must be wrong with me... I didn't find the original post (from June 2007!) very offensive.

Until I started controlling it, Te was very all or nothing. I was either a cold bastard hiding underneath the Te shell, or completely controlled by the whims (which are not as slippery as SW seemed to think) of my introverted feeling.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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Something must be wrong with me... I didn't find the original post (from June 2007!) very offensive.

Until I started controlling it, Te was very all or nothing. I was either a cold bastard hiding underneath the Te shell, or completely controlled by the whims (which are not as slippery as SW seemed to think) of my introverted feeling.

I relate totally to this. I'm not some logicless kitten like everyone seems to think the feelers with thinking in the inferior slot are.
 

MrME

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Jan 9, 2009
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How do you cope with this being your third or fourth function when the world forces you too often to make impersonal judgments...

1. First, I :cry:
2. I'll usually :steam: for a few minutes.
3. I'll usually have a follow-up :cry:
4. I'll take a good, long nap.
5. When I wake and feel refreshed, I will usually be all :happy2:
6. I'll then go to my computer and :cry: for a little bit because computers are so cold and logical. "I don't think my computer likes me!"
7. I'll then ask, "Computer, what should I do if X plus Y equals Z?"
8. Then I'll type my question into the computer because it can't hear me.
9. Then I do whatever the computer says.
10. Then I'll :cry: just for good measure.
 
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Lady_X

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^^ i'm doing that next time...seems definitely the way to go.
 
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