[ENFJ] ENFJ: Talk About Yourself!

[Elwin_Ransom]

Actually, I think one of the main communication blocks between me and ENFJ's, is that when I talk about things, I'm completely detached from 99% of what I'm saying, just throwing out ideas and wanting the other person to tell me what they think of them so I can whittle them into something half-decent. But the ENFJ's I know tend to just sit there being 'good listeners', not saying anything back, not giving any feedback, so I've no idea what they make of what I'm saying, and I feel worried that they think I actually mean the stuff I'm saying, like I'm speaking my actual opinions and stuff.

If this is an accurate assessment of a typical ENFJ, then I don't know what to think of myself. This doesn't describe me at all, so I'm a bit confused. Then again, my NF scores were 25 each, so that might have something to do with why I don't quite fit the typical molds.

 

[substitute]

If this is an accurate assessment of a typical ENFJ, then I don't know what to think of myself. This doesn't describe me at all, so I'm a bit confused. Then again, my NF scores were 25 each, so that might have something to do with why I don't quite fit the typical molds.

I dunno... I get a sense with him like I can really see he's holding back on me because he's worried about offending me or hurting my feelings if he tells me what a pile of crap I just said. I've tried to tell him that it actually offends and upsets me more when he does that, than if he just came out and said I was talking shit. But it doesn't seem to get anywhere - it's as if he has a mental block or something, that stops him from understanding that these are not my opinions that I'm saying, but merely ideas I'm proposing, and that I want criticism.

I know two male ENFJ's and one female one, and they're all like this with me.

Also, I think we're at cross-wires sometimes when I ramble on, explaining my idea, taking their lack of response as either disapproval or incomprehension, figuring I have to keep trying to explain it or find ways to put it that'll get a response out of them, while they're actually thinking (I can tell by their faces - a lot of people forget how hyperactive Ne can more than compensate for ENTP's less developed Fe) that I'm an overly talkative ego monster who just wants to dominate conversations. I totally don't want that, and the only reason I'm rambling on is because I'm trying to find the thing I can say that will make them respond!!

I eventually get sick of my own voice and of trying to pry their opinions and thoughts out of them, feeling like I'm throwing everything I've got at this person who's just like a rock, and everything I say just splatters on them and runs onto the floor, nothing is taken in, nothing absorbed, nothing valued... so I just go quiet. Then my Ne tells me they think I've gone quiet because I didn't like the fact that they didn't 'pander to my ego'.

This situation is very stressful for me, so I end up having to work hard at not pouting...

I know it's not 'just me', cos when I do the same thing with my roleplaying buddies (INFP, INTP, ENTP and ISTP), the conversation flows really well and everyone comes out with ideas and opinions, we all talk equal amounts and go away feeling like we've learned something or been inspired, and we find it really satisfying. Same with my novice guardian (INTP), former business partner and spiritual director (2 x ENTJ).

 

[Zhash]

Funny thing is, I've found this exact experience true with ENFPs. For someone I see rarely more than 4-5 times a year, this one ENFP friend and I have come up with some of the most legendary jokes within our group of friends

Maybe the similar dominant (ENFJ/P) and secondary (INTJ/P) functions playing to one another... similar perceptions, processed with different functions, or something like that

I've also seen a similar style of interaction between an ESTJ and ISTJ before (Si being the operative function here, dominant in ISTJ but secondary in ESTJ)

This is interesting and perhaps, true. We need SW's expertise to analyze it. He seems to know why these things happen. I must say, however, that I also love to be around INTPs and ENFPs. They get me going, too.

 

[Usehername]

This is interesting and perhaps, true. We need SW's expertise to analyze it. He seems to know why these things happen. I must say, however, that I also love to be around INTPs and ENFPs. They get me going, too.

yeah. cool theory!

i am certainly a fan of the ENFP. I have 3 semi-close (like, close but i don't see them often) INTP friends. I love them all to death... it does seem, sometimes, that although we have exactly the same interests, i have trouble having a discussion with them once in a while. i have an easier time with INFP, ENFP, ENTP than INTP.

 

[Don Quixote]

Hey! I'm new here, introduced myself on the forum earlier, and yeah...I'm an ENFJ. I saw the first topic on the NF list, so I'll post. =)

Yeah, I really feel a closeness to INTPs. INTPs seem to have a really innocent and fantasy-like view of the world that really appeals to me. I am somewhat unique in that I have a deep interest in mathematics as an ENFJ, and I've found that conversations with INTPs are incredibly fulfilling.

And INFJs are awesome as well. With many types, I have some reservation in talking about things that are deeper. With the INFJ, I find that their attitudes toward life and people are very mature, and that really draws me to them. I really feel like I can talk to them.

And when I'm excited and in the adventurous mood, there's nothing better than the ENFP/ENTP, and sometimes the ESTP. It's really fun to be with them.

ESTJ, I always keep a distance from, but am able to maintain a good relationship with...however, it's an act, and I don't really connect on a deep level. The communication is usually limited to friendly joking and smiling.

 

[Elwin_Ransom]

Hey! I'm new here, introduced myself on the forum earlier, and yeah...I'm an ENFJ. I saw the first topic on the NF list, so I'll post. =)

Yeah, I really feel a closeness to INTPs. INTPs seem to have a really innocent and fantasy-like view of the world that really appeals to me. I am somewhat unique in that I have a deep interest in mathematics as an ENFJ, and I've found that conversations with INTPs are incredibly fulfilling.

Welcome, Don Quixote.

Uhm. I feel like the roles are reversed for Varelse (my INTP girlfriend) and I, in that I tend to romanticize and otherwise make epic the world around me while she has the more cynical view. Still, we seem to do a good job of counter-balancing each other. I fully agree, though, that my conversations with her are the most fulfilling conversations I've ever had.

I know what you mean about not exactly fitting the ENFJ archetype, though. I may express many of the typical traits, but I also have a tendency of doing things, or approaching things, in such a way that seems unheard of for an ENFJ. Maybe it's because I'm more of an XNFJ with only very loosely expressed Feeling.

Hmm. I haven't used a single smiley in this post, how odd for me. I must be too drained from an ongoing (though now over) struggle with an ESFJ.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I know what you mean about not exactly fitting the ENFJ archetype, though. I may express many of the typical traits, but I also have a tendency of doing things, or approaching things, in such a way that seems unheard of for an ENFJ.

You will find many misconceptions floating around MBTI-land concerning ENFJs.

 

[proteanmix]

I know what you mean about not exactly fitting the ENFJ archetype, though. I may express many of the typical traits, but I also have a tendency of doing things, or approaching things, in such a way that seems unheard of for an ENFJ. Maybe it's because I'm more of an XNFJ with only very loosely expressed Feeling.

What do you do that defies the ENFJ descriptions? I personally dislike most of the ENFJ (NF generally) descriptions that I read because I think they're too saintly. I also have a hard time distinguishing certain ENFP/ENFJ descriptions. The most difficult types for me to tell apart are ENFs, I usually can figure out most everybody else.

Here's some snapshot info about ENFPs and ENFJs from Linda Berens. I think I can do both pretty well, maybe even the ENFP one better, but I know I'm an ENFJ. I guess the ENFJ one emphasizes how one should treat themselves, but I thought that would be in the domain of Fi, not Fe.

ENFJ
Theme is mentoring, leading people to achieve their potential and become more of who they are. Talents lie in empathizing with profound personal insight and influencing others to learn, grow, and develop. Lead using their exceptional communication skills, enthusiasm, and warmth to gain cooperation toward meeting the ideals they hold for the individual or organization. Catalysts who draw out the best in others. Thrive on empathetic connections. Frequently called on to help others with personal problems.

ENFP
Theme is inspiration, both of themselves and others. Talents lie in grasping profound significance, revealing truths, and motivating others. Very perceptive of others' hidden motives and purposes. Interested in everything about individuals and their stories as long as they're genuine. Contagious enthusiasm for "causes" that further the good and develop latent potential and the same zeal for disclosing dishonesty and inauthenticity. Frequently moved to enthusiastically communicate their "message."

 

[Zhash]

And INFJs are awesome as well. With many types, I have some reservation in talking about things that are deeper. With the INFJ, I find that their attitudes toward life and people are very mature, and that really draws me to them. I really feel like I can talk to them.

My son is an INFJ and I love him to death. His wife is also an INFJ and I love her, too. The only difficulties that I see in discussing issues with them is that they tend to be very judgmental about people based on their value system. They are not as "open-minded" as other people. I think part of the problem is that they are young--30 years old and 28 years old. Like with any same personality pairings, they don't have the ability to do any type of correction with each other. They are totally like-minded. This leads to unrealistic expectations of people. They tend not to appreciate diversity of thought and they isolate themselves from people that think differently than they do. I think that this is going to be a challenge for them, going forward. I think that this is good discussion for another thread.

 

[Don Quixote]

What do you do that defies the ENFJ descriptions? I personally dislike most of the ENFJ (NF generally) descriptions that I read because I think they're too saintly. I also have a hard time distinguishing certain ENFP/ENFJ descriptions. The most difficult types for me to tell apart are ENFs, I usually can figure out most everybody else.

Here's some snapshot info about ENFPs and ENFJs from Linda Berens. I think I can do both pretty well, maybe even the ENFP one better, but I know I'm an ENFJ. I guess the ENFJ one emphasizes how one should treat themselves, but I thought that would be in the domain of Fi, not Fe.

Ooh can you expand a little? Examples of situations in which the ENFJ and the ENFP would take opposing views and their differences really show as obvious...

 

[proteanmix]

Ooh can you expand a little? Examples of situations in which the ENFJ and the ENFP would take opposing views and their differences really show as obvious...

I don't know, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I've known a couple of ENFPs and we were brought together because of common views. We didn't get very close, but I felt a kinship with them.

 

[Littlelostnf]

I don't know, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I've known a couple of ENFPs and we were brought together because of common views. We didn't get very close, but I felt a kinship with them.

Actually I know several ENFP's and a few of them I'm very close to. I would like to hear others thoughts on how the two are different. I am definately different from my ENFP friends. I like to hear what others think the differences between the two are.

 

[Usehername]

Actually I know several ENFP's and a few of them I'm very close to. I would like to hear others thoughts on how the two are different. I am definately different from my ENFP friends. I like to hear what others think the differences between the two are.

based of life experience (which means small sampling, of course)

*ENFJs can talk their way into anything, whereas ENFPs could if they wanted to, but generally give up because either a) they become interested in something else or b) don't want to push anyone and back off

*ENFP finds place in life considerably later, they tend to stumble into it; ENFJ tends to commit and go-get-'er

*ENFJs are generally loved but sometimes realllyyy tick people off and make enemies (although this is very disproportionate to the amount of people that they know, most love them); ENFPs generally just frustrate people a little bit here and there but everyone still loves them

*ENFJs care about their looks; ENFPs throw on what smells clean and head out the door

now i want to hear you, littlelostnf! more rather than less. and thoughts/questions as opposed to simply conclusions. just keep talkin'.

 

[Littlelostnf]

based of life experience (which means small sampling, of course) now i want to hear you, littlelostnf! more rather than less. and thoughts/questions as opposed to simply conclusions. just keep talkin'.

Gee be bossy why don't ya. ha!

Hmm ok. Seems to me like there are less ENFJ NF's here than any other and so you've got a small sample to go from in terms of online ENFJ's you know. I don't know how many you know in real life but I will say this about your comments.....

*ENFJs can talk their way into anything, whereas ENFPs could if they wanted to, but generally give up because either a) they become interested in something else or b) don't want to push anyone and back off

1. Can ENFJ's be manipulative. Absoultely, if I wanted I'm sure I could get most people to do just about most of what I want them to. How scary and inauthentic is that?! VERY and I would really not be able to live with myself if I did that. My face is all scrunched up thinking about being like that. Why would you think an ENFP would give up. Actually in my experience the ENFP's I know are rather more persistant than I am and are definately the squeeky wheels that get the grease. They complain more, (push) they are more vocal about what they want and generally because of being so charming they get it. {Edit - In the above I'm talking making people do things that would not be beneficial for them but beneficial for me...and while I may see that something would be good for a person I am not the type of person to try to manipulate them into doing it. I may try to help them see that something could be better but I beleive in letting a person handle their own life..alot of times I won't say anything unless someone asks me directly "What do you think" or What should I do?" and when they ask the later I say well if you want to know what I think you should do.....which is alot different than telling them what they should do.}

*ENFP finds place in life considerably later, they tend to stumble into it; ENFJ tends to commit and go-get-'er

2. I would say that is true. However, ENFJ's don't always ness know exactly what they want early on. It takes them some time also. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't until my late 20's that I knew what I wanted to be when I grew up and took the steps I needed to do it. Once I commited I had no problem accomplishing it and I haven't looked back..but it did take me some time. ENFPs that I know. Yes for the most part they all stumbled onto what they are doing presently. They all have diff dreams but what they are doing works for now for them.

*ENFJs are generally loved but sometimes realllyyy tick people off and make enemies (although this is very disproportionate to the amount of people that they know, most love them); ENFPs generally just frustrate people a little bit here and there but everyone still loves them

I don't know Im so not trying to pass the buck here and I have to say I don't know many ENFJ's, 2 in my entire life as opposed to 8 ENFPs who I know very well and countless numbers of ESFJ's. Now the ESFJ's I know well (sorry ESFJ's) but what you said above generally happens to them. I hate to sound like I'm saying Ummm that's not us that's those ESFJ's but I really think people tend to confuse the two more often than not. The ESFJ's I know they have had the experience you talked about above. One ESFJ in particular I know really has had this happen to her multiple times. She never understands it and I see what the person she's reallyyy ticked off is saying but I also see that she doesn't understand that what she's done (whatever it is) really annoyed the person. When she annoys me or tries to manipulate me (which she is really good at) I either take a deep breath or plant my feet and I don't allow her to). Am I saying ENFJ's can't tick people off, of course not. However, based on my limited experience with the 2 I know they definately don't fit that, they more fit the frustrating people here and there with everyone still loving them...that fits in my case also.

And last but not least and this one is the funniest....

*ENFJs care about their looks; ENFPs throw on what smells clean and head out the door

While I do care about what I look like I am so picky about what I put on. I don't want to look like everyone else and I definately go for a balance between "look at me look at me" weird and "Ms. Gap/Banana Republic average chick on the street". Two ENFPs I know are total opposites. One never comes out the house without completely matching and having every piece of her outfits totally together. The other throws her clothes on and hasn't a clue what looks good on her body. Two other ENFP's I know (males) are both very picky about what they wear and always look fantastic..and they aren't even gay . As far as the 2 ENFJ's I know. One of them is always neat but I'd like to nominate her for "What not to wear" she could wear anything and manages to look twice her age. The other...well in her teens she was a style maven but now with two kids just manages to put clothes on her body. Soooo I don't think (at least in my experience with ENFJ/Ps what you said above fits.

Yes I have more but it's a beautiful Sat morning and I'm off to the city so more later.

 

[substitute]

Actually I know several ENFP's and a few of them I'm very close to. I would like to hear others thoughts on how the two are different. I am definately different from my ENFP friends. I like to hear what others think the differences between the two are.

My brother's ENFP, my sister's ENFJ. She has a guilt complex the size of the universe, and gets gaslit and persuaded by people playing on that guilt, to get her to do just about anything. Not so my brother. He can spot bullshit a mile off, and doesn't fall for guilt trips even in the heat of the moment. On the contrary, he's the one usually using them to get what he wants from others!

My sister also tries a lot harder, to please people by giving to them her time, money, patience, forgiveness etc, while my brother tries to please by generally showing off and making people laugh and enjoy themselves. She seems a lot more spiritual than he is.

Although she's an intelligent and outspoken woman, she's been in two abusive relationships in a row, and I think she gets there because she gives in too easily to boyfriends' demands, the sorts of demands that abusive control freaks make with an aim of isolating and controlling you. Even when she finally gets sense talked into her and leaves these jerks, she puts up with them phoning her and won't just unplug the phone. She gets upset and talks about how she really could just give him another chance and try to make it work.

Jack on the other hand, just goes for girls who will worship him, basically, and leads them along for years, working on them and improving them (as he sees it), before they split up and he does the whole 'staying friends' thing long beyond the point where everyone else can see it's not helping the girl to get over him.

If she's not happy with a situation with somebody, she puts up with it and grumbles behind their backs, but only to people she knows won't say anything about it. If he's unhappy with a situation, he'll manipulate the people involved until he is.

 

[Littlelostnf]

Ah! Now that is a very significant subject to me! The smile. The smile is one of the most subtly powerful gestures in human arsenal. A smile can relay a lot of things, but, for me, more often than not, it's usually a way of silently saying, "Hey, I don't know you, but here's to hoping that you have a good day anyway." Do I truly, deeply care for everyone I smile to? Not necessarily, but that doesn't mean I can't wish them well in passing. Of course, that's not my favorite usage of smiling. My favorite is the form that says, "Hey, keep your chin up. You're awesome, and I'm here for you."

Yes. I like that smile.

Wait, this isn't the "dissect the various forms and applications of smiles" thread.

Wow I have to say I could not have said this any better. (YES I was suppose to be on a train to the city but I'm waiting for the next as a friend is running late so here I am again) ANYWAY I really relate about this smiling thing. My friends always say people talk to you because you smile at them always. Well why not. Why would I not smile at them. I've had more than one person stop me and say thanks just seeing someone/anyone with a smile on their face made me be able to face the day. Didn't cost me anything and made their day more pleasurable. I agree with your totally Elwin

 

[Littlelostnf]

My brother's ENFP, my sister's ENFJ. She has a guilt complex the size of the universe, and gets gaslit and persuaded by people playing on that guilt, to get her to do just about anything. Not so my brother. He can spot bullshit a mile off, and doesn't fall for guilt trips even in the heat of the moment. On the contrary, he's the one usually using them to get what he wants from others!

Well I have to say I can spot the bull but depending on the situation I can fall for the guilt trips but I know what I'm getting into if and when I do. I agree that the ENFPs I konw usually do get what they want, much more than I do.

My sister also tries a lot harder, to please people by giving to them her time, money, patience, forgiveness etc, while my brother tries to please by generally showing off and making people laugh and enjoy themselves. She seems a lot more spiritual than he is.

Well the ENFPS (most of them) I know are also spiritual but def they please by making people laugh and enjoy themselves...slightly less sincere I think (at least the ones I know)

Although she's an intelligent and outspoken woman, she's been in two abusive relationships in a row, and I think she gets there because she gives in too easily to boyfriends' demands, the sorts of demands that abusive control freaks make with an aim of isolating and controlling you. Even when she finally gets sense talked into her and leaves these jerks, she puts up with them phoning her and won't just unplug the phone. She gets upset and talks about how she really could just give him another chance and try to make it work.

I can see a young ENFJ being in that situation. I think that an ENFJ who has developed their other functions well will be able to spot the storm clouds in that kind of relationship brewing and beat up themselves for getting involved but they also would be OUTTA THERE before it got worst.

Jack on the other hand, just goes for girls who will worship him, basically, and leads them along for years, working on them and improving them (as he sees it), before they split up and he does the whole 'staying friends' thing long beyond the point where everyone else can see it's not helping the girl to get over him.

If she's not happy with a situation with somebody, she puts up with it and grumbles behind their backs, but only to people she knows won't say anything about it. If he's unhappy with a situation, he'll manipulate the people involved until he is.

Wow yup. That's about it I will do exactly that if I talk to anyone at all it has to be that I know they won't say anything about it. If I'm really unhappy I ALWAYS go talk directly to the person but if I'm just annoyed and need to talk I will sometimes without revealing who I'm talking about. Since I'm doing it always with a good friend they generally know who the person is anyway.

 

[Littlelostnf]

Okay.

When ENFJs find a socially awkward but endearing NT who obviously was drawn to the ENFJ, what do they think? What do they feel? What about when this NT is younger and they're trying to help them grow?

(I'm trying to figure out what one of my teachers thought of me way back in the day; I really liked her. I know she liked me but I want to know what she thought of me.)

I feel flattered because I'm so intrigued by NT's so when they are drawn to me I feel like wow..same here dude or (more recently) chickie. I just met my first female ENTP and I LOVE her. We are from entirely different cultures but we just connected right away. She's from Italy and when we realized why the bond was so strong we just laughed and said "Well there you go"

I had a fourth grade class about 4 years ago and one of my students was a young NT (yes I could tell that early) The sweetest thing he said to me was "You know you're my favorite teacher ever because you're just as weird as I am" IT WAS GREAT! We still keep in touch his mom, he and I.

 

[Usehername]

Okay.

Keep talking.

What embarrasses you? I tend to notice that the emotions I would be embarrassed to show in front of others don't phase ENFJs to share these emotions with others. Do you find this is generally true with you?

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

What embarrasses you? I tend to notice that the emotions I would be embarrassed to show in front of others don't phase ENFJs to share these emotions with others. Do you find this is generally true with you?

I am going to jump back in for this one. The only things I am embarrassed to express are tears & anger. I don't cry in front of anyone ever if I can help it. I think people would be shocked to know that dominant Fe and all I hardly ever shed a tear. True anger for me is a source of embarrassment. It's because anger means I haven't rationally looked at a situation and am taking something personally. It means I have also run out of solutions for that moment. An angry outburst which happens very rarely is scary and it feels very immature. Generally instead of letting it out I "calmly" assess the situation and change it in my mind. Silence from me is a good indicator that I am attempting to regain control internally. Luckily people who know me tend to STFU during this process.