[NF] INFJ brain

[Ene]

Yes, I agree! And many people tend to completely separate intellectual intelligence from creative intelligence. They assume that if you are "book smart", you can't be creative. In that respect, as an INFJ, I feel well-rounded or balanced most of the time.

Kind of off topic maybe, but... For example, I can be knowledgeable AND a goofball! In fact, sometimes it helps me be a funnier goofball?! LOL I can understand something well, yet find the humor in it.

I just want to add that I really get the part about knowledge helping you be a funnier goof ball. I'm funny in real life, but it's an off-the-wall kind of humor that catches people completely off-guard (including me sometimes).

 

[PeaceBaby]

I suggest, rather, that what happens, is that the secondary and tertiary skills "catch up" to the dominant skill, in that they are no longer markedly inferior, for most of the day-to-day tasks of life. But the preference remains (as even athletes who develop remarkable dexterity with both hands, hat tip to [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION] and martial arts, still retain their original 'handedness'; or as even switch-hitters in professional baseball, still prefer throwing/catching with one hand or the other. The upshot being that for particularly demanding tasks/situations, or under stress, a person will "revert" to their first function, as it is better in synaptical ("mental-type-muscle?") memory, and has a better "top end" (i.e., e.g., the theoretical top speed of a car).

Not sure on this. For me, jury is still out. Instinctively, it feels wrong at this point in time.

As I've said *many* times before, I'm going to have to stop underestimating you INFPs...! (Not meant to sound haughty, as every time I get Fi-b*tchslapped (hit in the face with a wet mackerel, so to speak) by an INFP, I instinctively recognize, even before my mind has assimilated the shock of the impact of the fish, that the essential elements of the INFPs assertion, are not only correct, but serve to "nitpick" me in what I would have believed to be my stronghold. See below.

Here's a thought I had upon waking. I lead with Ji and have two perceiving functions constantly working to broach and kick the door down of TRUTH[sup]TM[/sup]. You lead with Pi and have two judging functions constantly working to keep the drawbridge high of TRUTH[sup]TM[/sup]. You're going to staunchly protect, and I am going to unrepentantly expose.

Said another way, I am always questioning my own conclusions, and you are always fortifying yours. SO, I'm going to question your conclusions too, and you are going to try to wall me up with mine.

In a dynamic where someone always questions your conclusions, one's instinct is typically to defend against attack. Since I don't want to evoke this protective instinct in others all of the time, I have to a) pick my battles and b) use different strategies to convey a message. So, as to point a) Ji has to be quite confident before proceeding and b) must tailor their approach to the typical defenses they encounter. Adaptation. I have to confess though, when I encounter defensiveness, it is typical and frustrating for people to not realize that it's not about me, it's about them (you own your own emotions) and I do it to myself all of the time so all conclusions are fair game to me. Breaking down my own doors, and trying to be aware of the things I don't naturally see clear. I have to say though, it was nice you didn't have that reaction. The way we are wired is not often appreciated.

and I have to add a caveat here, because someone is going to read this and think, oooh INFP people are always ATTACKING us. No, we're not. It's not meant to be that literal. 90% of personal perspectives are harmless and we are happy to let you live in your own idiosyncratic world as much as we enjoy our own. It's the 10% that's worth standing up for. No, maybe closer to only 1%. We only bother when there's something we perceive as high importance at stake.

 

[grey_beard]

...

not sure how to respond. I flatter myself to believe that I have grown up enough in life, to not fortify my conclusions; or, if I do, to always leave the drawbridge open a chink, enough that if any new pertinent information comes in, it will be allowed, but not enough to admit trolls or Uruk-Hai from Isengard bearing a blasting fire...or even ordinary Uruks from Mordor.

Not that I consider INFPs trolls OR orcs; to them, rather, I say pedo mellon a minno; but as INFPs have discovered of their own values landmines, there are values trolls in real life as well as on line; and
well-meaning but mistaken friends, as well as honest differences of opinion, in addition to enemies.

My speech was meant to be very nearly the highest praise that an INTJ can give; namely, that it has often happened that INFPs *have* borne additional relevant consideration, that I had not built in; and which in fact *compelled* reconsideration of my TRUTH(TM). For which, if it is done in a spirit of care and respect, an INTJ will *always* be grateful.

Incidentally -- may I say, pax? Despite appearances, it is not my intent to "wall you up" with your conclusions; rather, it is that when I believe enough facts are gathered, and they happen to *point to* a conclusion, it is best to grasp that conclusion as a working hypothesis, and if appropriate for the type of fact it is, to act upon it.

If that is considered to be walling up, or unacceptable, then I wish to send an envoy to discuss terms of mutual respect and friendly co-existence -- say, like horses and sheep grazing peacefully together, no offense given nor taken. For INFPs appear to value authenticity, which I value highly.

Any other INFPs listening in to this thread are invited to chime in here.

Votive animal video below:

 

[PeaceBaby]

[MENTION=20856]grey_beard[/MENTION]: "you" was a generic "you". Not specific. A general way of describing a dynamic, not absolute, not precise. Apologies if I came on too strong there.

Hmm, now I feel stuck with what to say. You've taken a direction I assessed as less likely as others and frankly, was just conveying what had struck me on contemplation. Ironically, this is kind of what I mean when I say "wall up" - there's a directionality now that I will have to counter so that you can see better what I am trying to convey. Admittedly, that last post was sloppy and I knew it; didn't have time to polish, but of course communicating well is worth the investment of time. Plus you had shown interest and ability to follow rabbit-holes before so went a bit off the grid with a more natural voice hoping it wouldn't be too ... off the map.

Your speech was taken as praise. Yet in that you see too, that you potentially see yourself as the arbiter of worth, to discern what is praiseworthy and when it is deserved? I'm not after praise - I've conflated and confused it with worth for too much of my life. This isn't criticism of you either - I can feel the space your comments come from, they feel sincere and pleasantly surprised even. A declaration of pax isn't necessary between us because I see nothing else but that between us. My apologies again if I have confused you to think otherwise.

Sorry too Ene for the thread derail. Wanted to point out the logic error contained within a sentence and a pattern I've noticed over time. I've not got much else to add, there.

 

[grey_beard]

[MENTION=20856]grey_beard[/MENTION]: "you" was a generic "you". Not specific. A general way of describing a dynamic, not absolute, not precise. Apologies if I came on too strong there.

Hmm, now I feel stuck with what to say. You've taken a direction I assessed as less likely as others and frankly, was just conveying what had struck me on contemplation. Ironically, this is kind of what I mean when I say "wall up" - there's a directionality now that I will have to counter so that you can see better what I am trying to convey. Admittedly, that last post was sloppy and I knew it; didn't have time to polish, but of course communicating well is worth the investment of time. Plus you had shown interest and ability to follow rabbit-holes before so went a bit off the grid with a more natural voice hoping it wouldn't be too ... off the map.

Your speech was taken as praise. Yet in that you see too, that you potentially see yourself as the arbiter of worth, to discern what is praiseworthy and when it is deserved? I'm not after praise - I've conflated and confused it with worth for too much of my life. This isn't criticism of you either - I can feel the space your comments come from, they feel sincere and pleasantly surprised even. A declaration of pax isn't necessary between us because I see nothing else but that between us. My apologies again if I have confused you to think otherwise.

I wasn't necessarily trying to praise *you*: nor was I trying to assign myself as the arbiter of worth.

My only point was that INTJs do tend to think they know everything: I like many INTJs am tempted in that direction.

But INFPs in general are able to correct me -- not haughtily, and not by finding a loophole. But rather by adding additional data I hadn't run across, or had considered irrelevant.
Doing that, is what is meritorious, as it doesn't set an INTJ into argue-into-oblivion mode: which is what I *was* praising, and as typical of mature INFPs in general.
Immature INFPs cannot, and most other types cannot...

There's an analogy there to there existing an MBTI type who somehow knows how to tiptoe around an INFP's internal values landmines: neither cozening the INFP into giving up for the sake of peace,
nor being obsequious and giving into the INFP for the sake of not getting doorslammed. I bet INFPs would like talking to that type. I've never discovered if such a thing exists in reality, though.


By "Pax" therefore I *meant* -- take this as a general observation on how INFPs affect *me* and not a personal statement about YOU ; e'en though you *are* an INFP.

[MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], agreed, sorry for an inadvertent hijack.


Putting my keyboard down & backing away from the thread.

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=20856]grey_beard[/MENTION]I hope you don't back too far way for too long I really appreciate your insights.

I also wish to apologize for not responding to one of your posts sooner. I must have somehow missed it. I've been having trouble with Type C a lot lately. Many times when I try to log in, I get a "server not responding" message. So, I imagine I'm missing a few pieces here and there to several conversations.

I suggest, rather, that what happens, is that the secondary and tertiary skills "catch up" to the dominant skill, in that they are no longer markedly inferior, for most of the day-to-day tasks of life. But the preference remains (as even athletes who develop remarkable dexterity with both hands, hat tip to @Ene and martial arts, still retain their original 'handedness'; or as even switch-hitters in professional baseball, still prefer throwing/catching with one hand or the other. The upshot being that for particularly demanding tasks/situations, or under stress, a person will "revert" to their first function, as it is better in synaptical ("mental-type-muscle?") memory, and has a better "top end" (i.e., e.g.,

I like this analogy of handedness. I do believe that secondary and tertiary skills catch up.

I noted the Ni is good at capturing the essentials *for a particular purpose*; and the fact that if the Ni feels it has a sufficient match to something already in its database, it *stops searching*. This is not the same thing as stopping "way too soon" which *is* the hallmark of the immature INTJ

.

@Ene, can you comment on any analogy to the INFJ's use of Ni?

I think your analogy is right on target. If Ni finds the sufficient match to something in the database, it does stop searching. If it doesn't find a match then it starts building a database until it does. After that point, all the incoming data just seems to get filed away for use in a future search, in a future attempt to connect the dots.

Sorry too Ene for the thread derail. Wanted to point out the logic error contained within a sentence and a pattern I've noticed over time. I've not got much else to add, there.

[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] Thank you, but I feel you both have contributed greatly to the thread, because you discuss the development of auxiliary and tertiary functions and I like that you bring differing perspectives to the table. You have broadened my understanding. I think this is a healthy and insightful discussion.

 

[Froody Blue Gem]

The ti definitely has potential i it is tertiary. Since a young age, I have always loved reading and analyzing. Thinking about the world around me and topics that interested me, digging into them and learning more. Sort of taking a security in knowing. I think the tertiary function develops more and more with age though. It also takes time and practice to use all of the functions effectively. When I was younger, while ti was used, it couldn't properly be channeled.

I think my ti is pretty developed now but there are off days with it. When I was younger, while the fe is part of me that I can't turn off, it's something I used to not be able to completely control. It may not be strong when someone is younger but as they mature and develop, perhaps by the time one is a teenager or a young adult, it may be on par with the other functions. The ni is what does the processing while the fe has a chameleonic affect, assessing the feelings around it. The ti could have the potential to work with it.

 

[Darlene]

The reason I brought this subject up is that I read all of these descriptions about how INFJs are complex and deep and prone to creativity and usually are highly successful in academia. This sounds like high intelligence to me. Yet, people are often surprised when they find out how "smart" I am or that I am a "deep" thinker. I wonder if the auxiliary Fe disguises INFJ intelligence to point that people don't believe it when they see it.

Very well put. Actually, that is somewhat my experience as well and I've seen some INFJs commenting about similar experices elsewhere.

People have to know me well enough to really know how I think. Fe is just the "outer layer" of my personality if you like, and what it entails and covers is only partially true about my personality. I can be nice to people, without being arrogant or sharp (as many have pointed out to me their view of "intelligent people") and I find it rather easy to "read" people and their motives, that is how Fe is usually manifested in me. If I really and truly like someone for good, I will be extra nice to let them know they are special. But that's it.

What is behind that Fe warmth of mine and fellow INFJs may remain a secret and perhaps a mystery to some people. I actually don't like that "INFJ-hype" that is going on MBTI related discussions, because it really seems to still miss a lot or some of INFJ's essence.

Truth to be told, I can be really cold and calculating inside. That is probably the workings of Ni-Ti side of mine. I will strictly calculate next possible logical outcomes of my actions or pinpoint logical inconsistencies in someone's speech or written text, to the point I may even remotely resemble an INTJ to some extent sometimes. This is all going on the back side of my mind, like a computer program always running on background. But what people will get from me is the Fe response, hence they won't usually get to see how I reached my conclusions.
People won't get to know about this side of me, unless they know me really well.

 

[Non_xsense]

Infj and intj are so differents even if they share dom Ni theirs motivations , dreams , point of view , ect . are so apart.
Theirs Fe/Ti and Te/Fi make them differents beasts.

Actually my concept about Infj's , they are philosophers about emotions and intp philosophers about logic .
Infj making a complex emotional system : fuck , i never thought about that .

Intj's making a logical system : i already thought that point of view and there is alot of problems ... but maybe if you fix it in the way :SSSSS.