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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Q

SolitaryWalker

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How do you seperate your personal values from the impersonal?

As we see that a typical problem for an NT is believing that everything is impersonal and therefore objective criticism can be applied to anything.

And for an NF, believing that everything is personal and therefore all is immune to criticism.

NFs, how do you manage to distinguish between the two, despite that the personal is almost always preponderous over the impersonal in your lives?
 

meshou

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How do you seperate your impersonal values from your personal ones?

How do you avoid bias when you completely refuse to agknowledge you're made of meat, and most of your a priori judgements must come from being an emotional, biological being?

I think the answer is, you stretch yourself and you keep growing, you get a sense of what's appropriate where, and that's about all you can do.
 

Elwin_Ransom

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Distinguishing between personal and impersonal is usually tied to how close I am to the person speaking. With the people I'm close to, I tend to try and read between the lines, if you'll allow the expression, and draw a personal implication and application from what is said.

I try to keep that in mind when speaking with those I'm close to. If I think an impersonal criticism of a concept will cause someone to see it as a personal judgment, I find another way to handle what I wanted to say.

I rather like the impersonal for handling ideas, but I'm naturally sensitive to how such things may affect people in a personal way.

The only time I really have an issue with taking the impersonal personally is when something impersonal comes across as an attack on my honor.

I don't know if that helps at all.
 

Nighthawk

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I do ... somehow. I have two standards ... my own, and the rest of the world. I try to realize that people have different standards and values and try to recognize both. It broadens my horizons a bit and helps me to understand radically different points of view. I was not always able to do this. I didn't really find it until my late 30's.
 

Eileen

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How do you seperate your impersonal values from your personal ones?

How do you avoid bias when you completely refuse to agknowledge you're made of meat, and most of your a priori judgements must come from being an emotional, biological being?

I think the answer is, you stretch yourself and you keep growing, you get a sense of what's appropriate where, and that's about all you can do.

:yes:


this question is way too black and white. i will say - when people are involved, it's never totally impersonal. i'm sensitive to the ways that any issue can be personal to somebody. i try to respect that when dealing with people.

if i have a necessary goal that requires me to step on someone's personal issue, i try to be careful, but if the goal is important, the goal is important. i do what i have to do... and usually what i have to do is for my wellbeing or someone else's, so it's still personal.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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How do you seperate your personal values from the impersonal?

As we see that a typical problem for an NT is believing that everything is impersonal and therefore objective criticism can be applied to anything.
It seems ideal to be able to work in different systems. Identifying the nature of the problem to be solved is a first step. Figuring out what crop will grow best this season is not the same process as choosing a new puppy. If the best result does not involve human emotion - the successful crop produces income needed whereas the puppy choice is to bring a positive emotion and friendship. If an emotional outcome it central to the issue at hand, it only makes sense to factor it in.

And for an NF, believing that everything is personal and therefore all is immune to criticism.
I don't see why the personal is immune to criticism. How could people improve as parents, friends, teachers, etc. if they did not accept criticism to improve? It may just be more about the manner of criticism needing the reassurance that the personal bond is in tact before engaging the issue.
 

Totenkindly

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It may just be more about the manner of criticism needing the reassurance that the personal bond is in tact before engaging the issue.

Yes, it is the context of the criticism.

T's are much more liable to leap straight into the criticism, assuming it will be considered independently of the value of the person.

F's usually need to buffer criticism with some sort of affirmation before launching into the negatives.
 

Elwin_Ransom

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F's usually need to buffer criticism with some sort of affirmation before launching into the negatives.

That's probably completely true of me. I'm not perfectly certain that it's nature instead of nurture, however. With enough communication training, that concept becomes a natural tendency, however.
 

The Ü™

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I make decisions on whether or not it will help me out. It's not necessarily moral or based on other people's feelings, but at the same time, it's based on personal values (myself) and not necessarily logic.

So would that be a Thinking or Feeling trait?
 

Totenkindly

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I make decisions on whether or not it will help me out. It's not necessarily moral or based on other people's feelings, but at the same time, it's based on personal values (myself) and not necessarily logic.

So would that be a Thinking or Feeling trait?

It's just called "self-interest." And it could be either, depending on why you're the focal point of your own endeavors.
 

proteanmix

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How do you seperate your personal values from the impersonal?

As we see that a typical problem for an NT is believing that everything is impersonal and therefore objective criticism can be applied to anything.

And for an NF, believing that everything is personal and therefore all is immune to criticism.

NFs, how do you manage to distinguish between the two, despite that the personal is almost always preponderous over the impersonal in your lives?

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're asking but I'll try to answer. I need to know how you're defining personal, impersonal, and values. I don't think values are immune to criticism, nor do I think that the personal trumps impersonal all the time.

I have my core values and beliefs, things that I strongly believe in. Those are the things that make me me and I can't go shifting those around or I'll lose who I am. I'm very sensitive to these values. If I didn't have them what would I have? Just thinking about it now makes a big DOES NOT COMPUTE sign flash in my mind. I've learned not to express them because I don't want them to be criticized, it's like an attack on me and I have to defend myself. I also realize that it's good to evaluate why you believe what you believe. If you don't you'll become stagnant. Criticism to this area must be done in such a way that won't put me on the defensive.

An example: Something that is a reoccurring event lately is my boss editing something I wrote. It gets rewritten in such a way that there is no meaningful difference between what I wrote and what she wrote, like the difference between "Audio symposium with slides" and "Audio and slide symposium." I wonder does she feel a need to always edit my documents? Yes, I'm beginning to take this personally even if it's not meant as such. I may be being sensitive, but I don't care. I take pride in my writing abilities. When niggling and arbitrary changes are made, I get upset. I link it to her having a problem with my writing style. Now someone else may be like, what does it matter, but it's important to me.

Then there are the values of others. Others deem them important to maintain their own identity and since they're important to someone else, they're important to me, even if I don't hold those same values. I wouldn't want anyone to violate their values either, so I understand that those aren't as open to criticism either (but not immune).

How can you tell someone that something's not important to them? That's inherently personal. And then to poke and dissect someone's feelings and reduce it to a pile of nothing is difficult to handle. It's not that it can't be impersonally looked at, it's just that values are like an exposed nerve, they're sensitive. The area must be numbed and you have to soothe. Throw me into an ice cold lake and I'm going to go into shock. That's what being impersonal is like.
 
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