[INFJ] Am I out of place here?

[Sniffles]

Well thanks for the responses, I do appreciate it. They seem to confirm many of the conclusions I myself have come to. Mainly the fact that my posts are just too intellectual in quality. That was somewhat the point I was trying to make in my OP, but I was unable to fully articulate it(or in that way).

Well what else can I say? I'm very much interested in more intellectual in-depth topics. Of course, there are few avenues for me to discuss such things. So I guess that explain why I probably put more effort in my debates than others.

I seem to have an opposite view of Jennifer's: I can engage in small talk anytime really(and often do), but it's not everyday you can engage in more in-depth discussions about [insert random philosophical topic]. That's actually my form of fun and relaxation from the hassle of everyday life. To put it another way, it's a break from the endless trivalities I face with elsewhere.

So that's part of the reason why I tend to stay away from the more trival topics. Not only that, I literally do struggle with what to say in such discussions to begin with. I really don't know what to say.

And whenever I do say something, it tends to fall flat on other people. This is especially true when I try to engage in humour. Trust me, I'm not humourless by any means; and I guess many don't notice that my posts are often filled with sarcasm.

I guess here's one example, where I ask Samuel De Mazarin what he's been drinking, and when he answered Bailey's, to which I replied: "I just knew it had to be something Irish."
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/graveyard/6560-odd-sort-sex-related-talk-3.html

Then here I joke about all the Elvis avatars on the forum:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/248208-post13.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/248221-post15.html

Then again, addressing Samuel, I engage in more of what I consider my kind of humour:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/240086-post9.html

So I do engage in humour here, but I guess it's lost on most people. So even when I try to be more trival and humour in nature, I still fall short. People can't tell when Im being serious or being trival, which adds to the frustration on my part.

Although this often seems to apply to out in the open discussions. In more one-on-one discussions I tend to be more geniunely "lively" and less serious in nature. Im hard on the outside, but soft on the inside.

I'm sorry but talking about more personal issues out in the open is very uncomfortable for me. Heck creating this thread and even typing this post is nerve wracking. So Im not intentionally hiding myself, but I literally become tongue-tied when I try talk about myself out in the open.

That's really all I can say for now. Again, thanks for the responses.

 

[Tigerlily]

<--- Pegay

 

[Sniffles]

I'll also add one more thing. By engaging in intellectual discussions, I'm actually trying to open up to the people around me. Usually if I seem to connect with some people on that level does it seem possible to engage with them on more intimate levels. Yet as Jennifer mentioned, many people operate on the direct opposite basis.

This would explain alot.

Also, what's wrong with my avatar? I actually picked it to show my less serious side. Oh well, I tried.

 

[Haphazard]

Oh dear...

 

[Little Linguist]

You're fine. The world is weird.

 

[Tigerlily]

You're fine. The world is weird.

this is so true.

 

[Night]

They seem to confirm many of the conclusions I myself have come to. ... my posts are just too intellectual in quality.

I'm very much interested in more intellectual in-depth topics. Of course, there are few avenues for me to discuss such things. So I guess that explain why I probably put more effort in my debates than others.

I addressed this point in my initial response to you, Peguy.

I think you seek praise rather than camaraderie. Elevation instead of kinship.

As I mentioned earlier, your perspectives are interesting; but, insofar as I've read them, haven't offered profundity beyond what one could anticipate to encounter on MBTIc; INTPc; or a forum explicitly dedicated to Theosophy.

You need to look harder at what it is you hope to achieve. People here probably aren't going to cultivate alternative approaches on an issue as opaque as Theism. Many critical thinkers dismiss it as regressive subjectivity; a lack of falsifiable pulp tends to narrow interest.

Empirical judgment is without credible discourse in Theosophy. Faith is belief, absent material evidence. This turns some folks off.

I seem to have an opposite view of Jennifer's: I can engage in small talk anytime really(and often do), but it's not everyday you can engage in more in-depth discussions about [insert random philosophical topic]. That's actually my form of fun and relaxation from the hassle of everyday life. To put it another way, it's a break from the endless trivalities I face with elsewhere.

Triviality is intimate to the user.

Individual motivation for fora participation is without absolute principle; some think "base" socializing (Fluff Zone content) is desirable over abstract philosophy. Context is invisible to us, Peguy. Let's not develop premature assumptions centered on personal bias.

...

As you mentioned earlier, you said you desire intellectual connection.

So, find it.

Seek out people with whom you can share your ever-evolving perspective of the shared reality we mutually inhabit. Don't assume that trivial interchange is indicative of a weaker intellectual constitution.

Wildcat; Nocturne; Owl; Victor; Edahn; Jennifer; Toonia; Spartacuss; booyalab; Nocapszy; Ivy (many, many more) - all very intelligent people with unique psychosocial seasoning to savor...

I don't think you'll take offense with my suspicion that the corpus of your present experience is dwarfed by the collective wisdom of the folks above...

Many more are out there...

I'd check my technique if I were you. Going fishless is more often than not the result of poor baiting.

And whenever I do say something, it tends to fall flat on other people. This is especially true when I try to engage in humour. Trust me, I'm not humourless by any means; and I guess many don't notice that my posts are often filled with sarcasm.

If others miss your humor, is it possible you miss theirs?

Taking oneself too seriously often creates a sad immunity to variant forms of humor.

Breathe more.

I'm sorry but talking about more personal issues out in the open is very uncomfortable for me. Heck creating this thread and even typing this post is nerve wracking. So Im not intentionally hiding myself, but I literally become tongue-tied when I try talk about myself out in the open.

That's really all I can say for now. Again, thanks for the responses.

Why do you apologize? What wrongs have you committed?

You're clearly intelligent, Peguy.
Don't allow vanity to distort wit.

You're smarter than that.

 

[Haphazard]

Listen to Night.

Even if we can't type him, we all know he's all smart and shit.

 

[marm]

Peguy - I don't know if you'll see this, but I wanted to respond. I'm an extremely intellectual guy and I've had a hard time connecting with you in the past. I've felt as if you're very guarded about presenting yourself and I only get these tiny glimpses. Getting to know you can take a lot of effort.

You present something in a way that makes sense to you, but doesn't make sense to others because you give so little personal context. How can others care about something when you don't clearly express why you care about it? When communication fails, its best to first consider how you can improve your own communication skills.

When I first participated in forums, I was very frustrated. I had to learn to adapt myself to the social environment which is different for each forum. One adaptation I've had to make is to be much more direct about my humor. Many intellectual people have dry humor and it rarely works when communicating in pure text. You have to exaggerate a bit more for affect in order to communicate. Don't be subtle, be blatantly obvious. Explain your motivations and your feelings, don't expect others to simply understand. Heck, use smilies.

On the other hand, I don't like adapting myself too much. I'd rather find a group that I fit in with. Some groups work better for me, but I'm never entirely satisfied. Internet communication is so constrained. Partly, you just have to accept that discussing through text takes more effort.

 

[Thursday]

Listen to Night.

Even if we can't type him, we all know he's all smart and shit.

Cornbread; ain't nothin' wrong with that.

 

[cherchair]

I'll also add one more thing. By engaging in intellectual discussions, I'm actually trying to open up to the people around me. Usually if I seem to connect with some people on that level does it seem possible to engage with them on more intimate levels. Yet as Jennifer mentioned, many people operate on the direct opposite basis.

This would explain alot.

Also, what's wrong with my avatar? I actually picked it to show my less serious side. Oh well, I tried.

First of all, I like your avatar...a lot. :hi: I also make it a point to read your posts, though I may not respond to them because I often feel I don't have anything intelligent to offer. Instead, my posts tend to be too personal, reflective of my natural self-absorption, perhaps. People tend not to respond to them either. They are not, however, small talk. I reveal things here to strangers that I sometimes keep from the people I care about most. Okay, that's weird, but what's the worst that would happen if you showed more of yourself in your posts?

I would genuinely like to know more about you, partly out of my insatiable curiosity about people, but also to lend some context to the intellectual side of your posts. A little balance ain't all bad.

Oh, and definitely keep your sense of humor. I may not get it the first time around, but if I go back and read it over, it usually comes through just fine.

 

[runvardh]

Sorry to say, but I don't show up in the same threads you do. I find philosophy to be mostly a mine field where I can't adequitely defend myself. I've lived in a cave where my only external sources of information has been science, so unfortunately I'm well behind quite likely everyone on this board. An example, I had no idea who the hell Ayn Rand was, never mind Objectivism untill I finally bothered looking it up from her name showing up all over the damn place here (I also fell asleep after finishing the Wiki article, sorry INTJs).

 

[kuranes]

Peguy - I made a comment in one of the two "Herman Hesse" threads about being more interested in hearing people discuss Hesse himself, or, rather ( for me ) more likely the ideas one gets from his stories, than simply...what is his type ? For a lot of members this is the level they're comfortable on. Because your posts are normally the exact opposite of this, and show a great deal of thoughtfulness, I wish there were more people like you. I know that I criticized you about your attitude towards Victor, but I do really appreciate your presence. ( As I do with others, who I may criticize or disagree with from time to time. )

Quite frankly, I'd like to see more members here who are not only thoughtful, but ( in addition to that, to some extent ) who share some of the concerns that people may be more likely to have in their 40's and 50's etc. ( Better yet, for me, if they come from the same socio-economic dues-paying background. )

If a potential new member came along ( who is such an older person ) would they be more likely to be attracted enough to want to stay if they saw a lot of threads titled "Family guy - Yes or No ?" , "What type Birtney Speers ?", "Help With ESFJ fiancee - I Gotta Be Me?" or the kind of things you post ? My knee jerk reaction is to say "They'd like your threads better" but the real answer probably lies somewhere between these two.

I could perfectly understand the perspectives of both sides of the "Should we banter or should we delve into heavy stuff ?" question mentioned earlier. I guess that's why I try to mix them up.

I've noticed that a lot of people don't want to read long posts, no matter what. No matter what. So I sometimes post short punchy things like "Do you always try to eke out the last drops in a container ?" and also stuff that is long enough that it shows that I don't restrict myself to catering only to what young people demand these days. Some points are complex enough that they cannot be summarized into terse remarks/questions without trivializing them. Nor do I always have the time to go back and edit a longer piece into a shorter second draft.

I would agree that neither you or I "fit in" here that well. Maybe that will change someday, and it will be others wondering if they fit in, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

I like the fact that this place is a small enough forum that I get a sense of community. And if you look hard, there are some interesting thoughtful discussions going on here and there, which occupy sections of threads. Occupants of other similar thread sections seem to be more "polemic" driven, which is sometimes mistaken for thoughtful discussion here, but actually only represents a starting point to take off from.

I've noticed that you usually post from a POV of certainty, when not referring to your own life, as though all of the books you read confirm your views. I think a certain view of religion is the central sun around which a lot of your other philosophical or conceptual satellites orbit. And yet I'm often more intrigued by the satellites themselves.

As far as revealing more about ourselves and our personal foibles, I am somewhat reserved also. Perhaps I wouldn't be if I were in a discussion place where I sensed more people coming from a similar perspective. I can almost hear someone shouting "What fun would it be if we all thought exactly the same? it's those very differences that make it worthwhile !" To a certain extent, that's true, of course. But to a certain extent, it's not.

The title of a guide to successful blogging reads "Nobody Cares What You Had For Lunch", but I think that it is also both wrong and right. If you can somehow make yourself "Everyman/Everywoman" while at the same time seemingly just pointing out a thing which is happening to you, this can be quite a success. You'll notice many successful stand-up comedians use this phenomenon to their benefit. They'll start off a scenario that is humorous by getting us to recognize something we mostly all share, but that has not been publicly expressed before. For instance, the first time I had the concept of "political correctness" explained to me, I laughed in recognition, and said "You mean there's actually a word for that now ?" Someone may point out how people arriving at an elevator often assume that the people already queuing up there have not ventured to actually press the button requesting the elevator, and so they will press it again, as though asserting their own will. These things can be worthwhile, even though they are not "intellectual".

Bottom line - For selfish reasons I hope that you don't leave, bit I would understand if you did, because I often consider doing the same thing, for slightly similar reasons.

 

[Sniffles]

Oh boy..........this thread. I'm quite surprised it was revived after so long. In many ways I have to laugh now at this whole situation.

It's a very complicated personal issue, so just bare with me here.

Do I feel out of place anymore? I would have to say no. I've gotten to know many people here, along with engaging in many intellectual discussions as well. And I really do enjoy that balance to the forum.

I do apologize for any condescending tone I protrayed, that certainly was not my intention and I did my best to try to make that clear. I do not see myself as somekind of intellectual superman lording over the ignorant masses.

I agree with Plato's notion that the true philosopher is largely somebody who can articulate more on issues that effect everybody else, and does so as to help others better understand the issues effecting them.

So my main intention is usually to share insights with others and hopefully in the process help enrich their perspectives on things. And of course hopefully the other person in turn will help enrich my perspectives. A geniune two-way dialogue.

I've noticed some people say they find my arguments interesting and would like to respond, but feel/think they don't have much to offer. cherchair mentioned this above and a few others have mentioned this to me as well.

All I can say is, please don't be afraid to offer your views or insights. I do appreciate any thoughtful discussion, whether simple or complex in nature. And I am understanding that not everybody is as articulate as me. In those situations especially, I'll even do my best to further articulate whatever point you're trying to make or add greater context to it. I've done this a bit with other members here.

Long story short: I am interested in talking to you, so don't be afraid.

Another issue I'll bring up is that usually when Im under heavy stress(which I was when I posted this thread), it leads to certain imbalances. And certainly during those times, my more personal interaction skills suffer - and that leads my thinking functions operating in hyperdrive.

So yes, thank you for all the responses, they've been helpful on some levels. However in the end I can only say I am who I am.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

You seem okay to me.

Then again, I don't think I really dislike anyone on the forums.

 

[Salomé]

Yes. buh-bye!

 

[ajblaise]

Peguy, if you ever want to fully integrate here, you know what you must do.. Stop reading that Bible.

 

[MissMurder]

Peguy, you are different from everyone else here, and that's a good thing. Duh.

 

[Sniffles]

Peguy, if you ever want to fully integrate here, you know what you must do.. Stop reading that Bible.

NEVER!!!!!

 

[GargoylesLegacy]

Well Peguy, first of all I wanted to say "Welcome to the Club". Sometimes I feel out of Place too here. And Sometimes I feel like People ignore my Posts too. I am not sure if that's true or if it just looks like it to me, for Example because I have much more Time than most Others etc. Heh. =)
In any Way I wanted to say that I do like you, your Posts and Views. I am often really impressed by what you say. I know, I am a single Person only but whenever you feel like "not fitting in" again, it might help you to know that there are some People who do like you(r Posts). I really appreciate your Intellect and your often very deep Posts. Seriously. Also, if you ever feel like you are stressed-out again (like when you started this Thread, as you said), feel free to contact me. I am probably not as smart as you are, but I do care. =)

- Over and out. :hi: