[MBTI General] What do INFPs think of INTJs?

[Thalassa]

I don't idealise them like a lot of nf's tend to do.

I don't idealize them. I find myself unfortunately attracted to them, and like the idea of them getting things done and cutting their hair (as opposed to INTPs).

In truth they can be quite smug and distant and hard to know. With some of them they act like they're doing you a favor by giving you their attention. Depends on the INTJ and how mature they are.

A mature INTJ is warm and wonderful inside, and just measures the world at a distance with calculated logic. A less mature INTJ is kind of judgemental, cold-hearted prick.

There's a problem that occurs regarding the filtering of information. Intjs' aren't intuitive feelers, their feeling is informed by Se. This encourages them sometimes to dismiss feeling fed by intuition (nf). Just like nf's thinking is fed by sensing and can come at a head with intj thinking fed by intuition.

There's great advantages to this if you can work together as a team. But if you aren't aware of the dynamic described above, you can come to a point of contention. I've seen intjs' describe feelings as black and white etc. You can see the fi+se, which leads to different information filtering from fi+ne for example. Nf scratches a whole other layer of reality, NT doesn't and NT scratches a whole layer of reality NF doesn't. As long as you can recognise the merit of both and among other things, I guess it can work. If you're not very well integrated and become aggravated, confused, bemused by the others' means of coming to conclusions, then it gets tricky.

Hmmm I don't know if this has anything to do with sensing feelings and intuitive feelings, but rather than they give HEAVY HEAVY weight to logic and we give much more credit to nuance and feeling. INTJs can seem like the Thinkerty McThinkers of Thinkers in terms of being excessively logical. They're sometimes overly logical, and it's obviously to protect themselves.

If we talk about it in terms of function theory, I see INTPs as being more "open" even with their inferior Fe, being realistically less sensitive, and INTJs as being more "closed" trying to protect their little Fi flame like "my precious my precious" with this hard outer shell covering up major Puss In Boots.

I prefer entjs'. Simply because I seem to get on better with dominant judgers. I tend to prefer Te as someones dominant function rather than supporting one.

I also prefer intps' above entjs'.

Yeah, ENTJs are easier to get to know, or at least at a younger age. Extroverts are easier to crack like that.

 

[Nijntje]

They make me feel like this....

'tis sad but true... Stoic, cold and logical on the outside, warm and wonderful on the in.

Unfortunately, i can't help but like them... (INTx is my weakness)

 

[Biaxident]

What do INFPs think of INTJs?

I don't.

If I like you, I like you. Type has nothing to do with it.

 

[Hopelandic]

No offense, but I think the above is crap.

I particularly disagree with the bolded, and I think it taints the rest of your analysis.

My 2 main points were; intjs' fi is fed by se, and that nt's aren't nf's. What is the problem with these suggestions?

So an intjs' Fi isn't fed by Se?
You are an intuitive thinker first and foremost. If you were an nf, you'd be an nf.

I will further articulate my reasoning;
I have come across intjs' time and time again, referring to feeling as 'linear'. They refer to it as, "cause and effect", less about the reasoning process that feeling as a dominant or axillary can play the role of (as the heroic or supporting/nurturing position). Nf's can also have an 'st' like interpretation of nt reasoning. For example on forums, you will see intps' engaging with theory and not caring whether it can be applied (not just because of Ti, but the combination of Ti+intuition, whereas st's will be more likely to want harder evidence before making claims) whereas nf's (including infps') seem to make te judgments through sensing. "It's bs because there's no evidence".

My comments were about the roles feeling and thinking play in the infps' and intj's psych. I'm not talking about function strengths or any of that bs, but their roles (beebe, lenore thomson). What is the issue with the suggestion that the combination of the roles and the way these types filter information, can promote problems?

I see it all the time about intjs' commenting on infp threads on personality boards, "they're too emotional". To some infps' the discussions about situations goes beyond emotions. There is a lot to learn from these 'feeling' experiences, especially through the lens of Ne. Why? because of the roles of fi and ne and their positions in the hierarchy. It might not make sense or be valuable to other types, because of the fact they are other types, and they judge and perceive information in different ways because of the ways their functions are interacting because of their roles.

Sometimes infps' like to 'sit in feelings', whereas that may utterly confuse the intj. On a forum i'm on, an intj quoted the other day, "i've learned to never trust advice about feelings from a feeler" when referring to nf's. Feeling is the intjs' third function, and they may view it and it may play a role in their decision making in these ways;

• Vulnerable
• Improvises
• Playful
• Irresponsible
• Charming
• Promising but ultimately unreliable
• Seems amoral
• Spoiled Prince/Princess

compare that to an infp whose 'hero' is fi;

• Prioritizes
• Initiates
• Charismatic
• Trusted
• Promotes ambitions & goals

I mean, do you disagree that this (se) supports and supplies information to your fi?

External information-gathering
• External focus on concrete things
• Time orientation: immediate present
• Broad (inclusive); not deep
• Finite scope
• Visual emphasis (“Seeing is believing”)
• The tangible current environment is reality
• Intimately connected to environment
• Energized by the sensory experience
• Literal
• Active, impulsive, proactive about experiencing
the “Now”
• Hands-on, practical, pragmatic

 

[Zarathustra]

I'm not saying Se can't work in conjunction with Fi; I'm just saying that so can Ni.

I've never once considered the notion that my Fi could only work in tandem with my Se.

Perhaps the problem is that I am not realizing something, but, at the same time, perhaps you are overdoing something.

 

[Hopelandic]

I'm not saying Se can't work in conjunction with Fi; I'm just saying that so can Ni.

I've never once considered the notion that my Fi could only work in tandem with my Se.

Perhaps the problem is that I am not realizing something, but, at the same time, perhaps you are overdoing something.

I'm not suggesting it only works with se, but that it's the main source of information feeding it. Perhaps the problem is that I see functions in terms of roles (albeit they are flexible akin to how Beebe and Lenore Thomson theorise about them) but also my judgments are being formed through experience.

I'm not suggesting there will always be problems just because of these things; but that given we have the same ways of judging (though they play different roles) our different sources of information for these judgments can cause conflict, again compounded by the roles. That has been my experience.

 

[Hopelandic]

eep double post.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm not suggesting it only works with se, but that it's the main source of information feeding it. Perhaps the problem is that I see functions in terms of roles (albeit they are flexible akin to how Beebe and Lenore Thomson theorise about them) but also my judgments are being formed through experience.

I'm not suggesting there will always be problems just because of these things; but that given we have the same ways of judging (though they play different roles) our different sources of information for these judgments can cause conflict. That has been my experience.

The only issue I take with your argument is that if this were true it would mean NFs and NTs aren't compatible at all.

Plus, I don't think INTJs think INFPs are "too emotional" because of feeding Fi with Se. If SFPs were less emotional, my mother would be a much easier person to deal with.

 

[Hopelandic]

The only issue I take with your argument is that if this were true it would mean NFs and NTs aren't compatible at all.

Plus, I don't think INTJs think INFPs are "too emotional" because of feeding Fi with Se. If SFPs were less emotional, my mother would be a much easier person to deal with.

Can you explain that based on my reasoning there would be no compatibility? I think compatibility theories are not very useful because there are too many factors to consider. I was only isolating ONE FACTOR and expounding on it; not providing a comprehensive theory. I would never argue anything regarding non compatibility.

I don't see how the statements i've made suggest there is no possibility of compatibility. Compatibility was not my aim. I was targeting where specific -problems- may occur, not the be all and end all of whether intjs' and infps' could get along. Very specific focus.

"Plus, I don't think INTJs think INFPs are "too emotional" because of feeding Fi with Se. If SFPs were less emotional, my mother would be a much easier person to deal with".

I say -some- intjs' based on the -actual comments- I've seen from some. Not -all-.

I also said se feeds their fi, but not that it is their only source.

Please read this thread for more information about what i'm getting at.
http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temperament-forum-dreamers/38348-thinking-linear-what-do-nfs-mean.html

 

[Hopelandic]

Especially this post;

Yea.... you know I hypothesize it might have to do with our functions ......because NF's logic are always backed up by an S function..... do you know what I mean?

INFP= Fi Ne Si Te
ENFP=Ne Fi Te Si
ENFJ= Fe Ni Se Ti
INFJ= Ni Fe Ti Se

You never see Ti with Ne. You never see Te with Ni. Therefore as NF's I hypothesize that we may think of Ts as sensors because that is how we ourselves use logic.... we only have sensor based logic. This also works with NTs too in that they may think F is S like you said.

But yes when my INFJ friend found typed her husband she kept calling him an S when he was clearly just using Ti. Her husband is an ENTP.

Since intuition is so engulfed in our feelings then it's hard for us to separate the two I think, especially if we've never met an NT before in order to see how intuition could mix with T.

 

[Thalassa]

Can you explain that based on my reasoning there would be no compatibility? I think compatibility theories are not very useful because there are too many factors to consider. I was only isolating ONE FACTOR and expounding on it; not providing a comprehensive theory. I would never argue anything regarding non compatibility.

I don't see how the statements i've made suggest there is no possibility of compatibility. Compatibility was not my aim. I was targeting where specific -problems- may occur, not the be all and end all of whether intjs' and infps' could get along. Very specific focus.

"Plus, I don't think INTJs think INFPs are "too emotional" because of feeding Fi with Se. If SFPs were less emotional, my mother would be a much easier person to deal with".

I say -some- intjs' based on the -actual comments- I've seen from some. Not -all-.

I also said se feeds their fi, but not that it is their only source.

Please read this thread for more information about what i'm getting at.
http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temperament-forum-dreamers/38348-thinking-linear-what-do-nfs-mean.html

Well you seemed to give your explanation for preferring ENTJs or NTPs over INTJs was that their Fi was fed by Se and their interpretation of emotions was too linear, but if all NTs interpret emotions as SFs and all NFs interpret ideas like STs then ALL NFs and NTs would clash, not just your explanation for INTJs and INFPs clashing in your experience.

I don't think function theory is that simple, anyhoo, and I'm pretty sure that sometimes in particular situations or certain moods I act like a sensing feeler even though I'm an NF, I don't think it's as clear-cut as "NTs feel like SFs and NFs think like STs".

I think some INTJs see a lot of Fs as "too emotional" and I don't believe it's because of Fi being fed by Se, I think it's because they tend to be an excessively rational-acting type (no matter what they feel inside) thus the "robot" stereotype.

Besides, sometimes I think INFPs are too emotional, and I'm an NF.

It all depends on the individual, of course. Also, I don't tend to think of all Ts as sensors. Not at all.

 

[Hopelandic]

Well you seemed to give your explanation for preferring ENTJs or NTPs over INTJs was that their Fi was fed by Se and their interpretation of emotions was too linear

I said I prefer entjs' and intps' because they are dominant judgers. Nothing to do with fi.

but if all NTs interpret emotions as SFs and all NFs interpret ideas like STs then ALL NFs and NTs would clash, not just your explanation for INTJs and INFPs clashing in your experience.

Well the point of this thread is infp and intj. That's what I targeted it to.

I actually did refer to nf and nt. And no I was not suggesting all nt's and nf's would clash. I talked about the potential for problems to arrise. But yes, I could apply to nf/nt relations in general. I don't see how that is a counter point.

If you go back to my original post, I said "This encourages them sometimes to dismiss feeling fed by intuition (nf)". Did I say, "every time"? no. I said sometimes.

I don't think function theory is that simple, anyhoo, and I'm pretty sure that sometimes in particular situations or certain moods I act like a sensing feeler even though I'm an NF, I don't think it's as clear-cut as "NTs feel like SFs and NFs think like STs".

I'm not stringently applying theory. I talk in possibilities of issues and general roles of arbitrary labels. I'm probing theory and extracting consequentials.

I never talked about people being set in stone the way they are. I talked about the roles functions play. Isolating THAT factor above others. For the second time, I'm not talking about a comprehensive theory of everything. I talked about one issue.

Again If you read my first post;
"and can come at a head with intj thinking fed by intuition".

Not every time, not all times, but 'can'. It is about potentials for/possibilities.

I think some INTJs see a lot of Fs as "too emotional" and I don't believe it's because of Fi being fed by Se, I think it's because they tend to be an excessively rational-acting type (no matter what they feel inside) thus the "robot" stereotype.

That is one of the many reasons. I only talked about one. If I really have to break it down again; I am not (and -never- did) suggest fi+se perspective of fi+ne is the only issue that can arrise. That's placing assumptions on my words.

Besides, sometimes I think INFPs are too emotional, and I'm an NF.

So? functions are about perspectives, not the end conclusion. It doesn't matter if you think nf's are too emotional, it's how you got there. That's what i'm talking about.

It all depends on the individual, of course. Also, I don't tend to think of all Ts as sensors. Not at all.

No one is suggesting that -_-

 

[Lily flower]

I am an INFJ, but close to an INFP.

I would say that I enjoy INTJ's on a conversational level, but I think it would be very difficult to be in a romantic relationship with them.

I have less of a problem with someone who directly insults me, than with the general "feeling" that someone is being distant or upset. I would rather know directly what is going on than wonder in agony what I did wrong.

 

[Nicodemus]

With some of them they act like they're doing you a favor by giving you their attention.

Well, it can be just that. If I have no interest in someone but listen to them anyway, it is out of friendliness and thus, if you will, a favor.

 

[Onceajoan]

and, so it is, so often, in the presence of brillance.

 

[Usehername]

I wish these threads that I started about my inane personal issues would die a timely death, circa three years ago. Or get threadsplit.

 

[Tantive]

Why is that? Does it have to do with personalizing the criticism? Some criticism is a show of great respect and affection.

Some critism we already acknowledge for ourselves without needing another to point it out. Emotionally, it's like getting kicked while we've already downed ourselves.

 

[tkae.]

One of my closest (male) friends and my little bro are both INFP.


I sometimes wonder what they think of me; I love them both to death and we have the most intriguing and deep conversations.

But sometimes, do I come across as a cold-hearted bitch to them?

Yes.

I think they both know that I have the best of intentions all the time... but I just don't approach life from the same vantage.

Do I hurt them with (unintentional) careless words sometimes?

Yes.

I verbally express to both of them how much I care for them and how unique and special etc. they are, but do I hurt them sometimes when I make lack-of-feeling judgments/statements/observations etc?

Yes.

I've been wondering that for a while.

Which is exactly why none of it matters

The fact that you have enough self-awareness to know these sorts of things are things that we're sensitive to is why we stick around

Yes, you do. Because no matter how much you tell them that you care about them, they still want more. And when you're acting in a normal non-expressive manner, they'll ask, "Are you mad at me?" Then suddenly they'll retreat for no apparent reason and start brooding in a corner. They'll deny that it has anything to do with you, but don't worry, it does.

They can be some of the most needy and insecure creatures that one will ever meet.

/rant

You are not supposed to know these things!














































EDIT: Exactly how many INFPs did you kill to learn these things!?

 

[InvisibleJim]

EDIT: Exactly how many INFPs did you kill to learn these things!?

We have ways of making you talk!

 

[tkae.]

We have ways of making you talk!

Those observations are beyond just interrogation, those insights into INFP can only be discovered through laboratory experimentation that's highly detrimental to an INFP's health!

I'm talking Mengele in Auschiwitz experimentation!

I want him Nuremburged!