[INFP] Make the World a Better Place

[OrangeAppled]

Anyone else find that silly?
This sort of thing is very heavily associated with NFs... and I've always found it, er, STUPID.

There's a hidden arrogance there, although those expressing such sentiments usually present a simple, naive idealistic front. I pretty much roll my eyes. I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves, a desire to act on noble principles but with a worry the pleasures of life are passing them by at the same time. People who act like they feel 100% selfless and positive all the time are annoying and actually seem extremely shallow.

 

[yeghor]

Anyone else find that silly?
This sort of thing is very heavily associated with NFs... and I've always found it, er, STUPID.

There's a hidden arrogance there, although those expressing such sentiments usually present a simple, naive idealistic front. I pretty much roll my eyes. I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves, a desire to act on noble principles but with a worry the pleasures of life are passing them by at the same time. People who act like they feel 100% selfless and positive all the time are annoying and actually seem extremely shallow.

In my case, it's rather "Make the world more bearable for me". Some sort of trying to change the world to soothe my fears and anxieties. Also, trying not to feel bad about myself for not being able to cope with what's outside by rationalizing that there's something wrong with the world. It's an ego defense mechanism.

That flavor might be observed in SFs too by the way. I think it is the same for everyone, but it is how it manifests itself and the wording of it that change.

It changes with age by the way, around 30s or so I guess.

 

[Flâneuse]

There are people who have very broad compassion and who genuinely care about people in general and the state of the world, but those people aren't the ones who are repeating cheesy cliches and rubbing it everyone's faces how kind/innocent/idealistic they (think they) are. They're the ones who are actually doing something, and when they talk about world issues there's more of a focus on the issues themselves than a self-focus (how much they care, etc.).

I do think a lot of people have a shallow pseudo-idealism that's driven more by narcissism and moral superiority than by genuine compassion. I was actually thinking about this earlier today, but it was because I noticed that kind of phony idealism and subtle moral arrogance in myself and I had to remind myself that if I'm that vain about my "goodness" it's probably not really goodness I'm looking at, but instead an illusion of it.

Assuming I'm INFP, I think this attitude is pretty rare for my type. I don't actually see this much in NFs (just occasionally in NFJs). I find that generally NF (especially INFP or just NFP) idealism is misunderstood, and far more personal, internal and abstract than that "vision of how the world should be"/global idealism I keep reading about. I see those kinds of cliched, pretentious declarations you talked about more from ESFJs (mainly Twos and Threes) than any other type, though I've also known many ESFJs who are genuinely caring instead of pridefully "caring".

There's a hidden arrogance there, although those expressing such sentiments usually present a simple, naive idealistic front. [...] I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves, a desire to act on noble principles but with a worry the pleasures of life are passing them by at the same time. People who act like they feel 100% selfless and positive all the time are annoying and actually seem extremely shallow.

Yeah, from what I've observed in myself and others, that kind of shallow idealism and "selflessness" that's driven by moral vanity can be a defense people use to avoid introspection and having to confront their true characters - they avoid the "conscious struggle" you mentioned and just construct pleasing ideas of themselves. I think "annoying and shallow" is kind of a best-case scenario -- low awareness of one's actual character and an unwillingness to be displeasing to oneself can actually allow someone to be a pretty rotten person because they won't admit their flaws or when they've done something wrong.

 

[Rasofy]

This desire to make the world a better place is pretty common among NFs, ime. I've noticed many E4 NFs have a hard time choosing their fights. E9s seem to have an easier time channelling their energies to worthwhile causes. E1 self-righteousness is self-sustaining and doesn't require much action.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Nothing wrong with making the world a better place. But usually, the people that talk the most about it, ain't doin SHIT except talking. So yes, these people make me want to strangle them.

I don't know if anyone watches Fargo, but I thought this parable was relevant:



A rich man opens the paper one day.
He sees the world
is full of misery.
He says,

"I have money.
I can help."

So he gives away all of his money.
But it's not enough.
The people are still suffering.

One day, the man
sees another article.
He decides he was foolish to think just giving money was enough.
So he goes to the doctor
And says,

"doctor,
I want to donate a kidney."

The doctors do the surgery.
It's a complete success.
After, he knows he should feel good,
but he doesn't,For people are still suffering.
So he goes back to the doctor.
He says,

"doctor,
this time I want to give it all."

The doctor says,

"what does that mean, 'give it all'?"

He says,

"this time I want to donate my liver, but not just my liver, I want to donate my heart, but not just my heart.
I want to donate my corneas, but not just my corneas. I want to give it all away.
Everything I am. All that I have."

The doctor says,

"a kidney is one thing,
"but you can't give away your
whole body piece by piece.
That's suicide."

And he sends the man home.
But the man cannot live knowing that the people are suffering and he could help.
So he gives the one thing he has left.

His life.






and does it work?
Does it stop the suffering?

You live in the world.
What do you think?


Only a fool thinks he can
solve the world's problems.

 

[Firebird 8118]

[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION] Well, maybe one person alone cannot solve the world's problems - that might be too overwhelming, as proved in the parable. But one can at least make a difference in his/her own way, using the skills and talents he/she has. For example, one day I wish to open a non-profit music/arts school for orphans and/or children whose families are unable to afford proper food or shelter, let alone a good education to brighten their children's future.

I hope I can achieve this within the next 10-15 years!

 

[Riva]

Maybe what they mean is they see/feel more injustices, inequalities and insensitivities therefore sees a need for change rather than having an arrogant moral superiority.

I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves

Need to share this with the world would be the next step in 'making the world a better place'.

This desire to make the world a better place is pretty common among NFs, ime. I've noticed many E4 NFs have a hard time choosing their fights. E9s seem to have an easier time channelling their energies to worthwhile causes. E1 self-righteousness is self-sustaining and doesn't require much action.

They do? Maybe they have the ability to just pick something without being picky and fight the good fight by simply being habitual?

 

[Rasofy]

They do? Maybe they have the ability to just pick something without being picky and fight the good fight by simply being habitual?

Ime, 9s will tend to choose either volunteer work or charity as a way to make the world a better place. Simple, efficient, win-win. 4s are more likely to pick counter-culture fights against some sort of 'evil'. Patriarchy, meat consumers, animal hunters, vaccines, and whatnot.

 

[Amargith]

change starts by talking about it and raising awareness though - at least if you really are looking to address the global mindset.

While i agree that tangibly doing something about it is very much needed, without that awareness you re just carrying water to the sea. Id say both are important and one chooses the contribution thats more up ones alley. I honestly feel i contribute more by writing about cat behavior than when i volunteered at a cat shelter, coz i know im better at the first than addressing the practicalities of the latter

 

[Z Buck McFate]

[Not sure if this was meant exclusively for INFPs- apologies if it is.]

I think it entirely depends on why they want to ‘make the world a better place.’ If it’s for the sake of being perceived by others as ‘that person’ who wants to make the world a better place, then (imo) it’s misguided. They may routinely be doing the right thing for the wrong reason- thereby helping some people along the way with ‘the right thing’- but there’s still something about it that throws shit in the pool. When it’s more about one’s identity than about actually having compassion/being empathetic, then situations which challenge that identity will cause aggression (and the subsequent urge to make someone else’s corner of the world a worse place).

But I don’t think it’s naïve to actually want to make the world a better place by trying to cultivate mindfulness and awareness of the impact we have on others, though. However miniscule, we do have an impact. I don’t think there’s anything stupid about trying to take responsibility for our own tiny little corner of the world.

[I’m not purporting to be especially good at taking responsibility for my own impact, I’m merely trying to explain how ‘making the world a better place’ isn’t necessarily stupid.]

 

[skylights]

To me they seem like two very different domains.

For the most part I feel like it is fairly clear what I should aim for in life to "make the world a better place" - be a compassionate, generous, and considerate person, try to guide others on paths that are wholesome and healthy if my advice is asked, be aware of how my life impacts my environment and behave such that I minimize the damage I do and try to give back... I always appreciate when people say they want to make the world a better place because it implies a big-picture and altruistic focus. I have never really taken that wording in particular as being especially haughty, because it's just a goal. It just speaks to what the person would like to do. It seems to me like there are a multitude of ways someone can help the world in general and all they need to do to achieve that goal is contribute a little in their own individual way.

That said, I do know what you are talking about in your last sentence, and I agree with Z Buck that if they are doing it for less wholesome reasons then it is likely to be tainted. I have also run into a few people who seem very shallow and idealistic like this, but part of it is that they don't like sharing about their own struggles, and so they tend to come off as naive and stuck-up, though from knowing them I learned that they do have plenty of realistic thought and negative experience, but tend to keep it inside.

 

[Forever_Jung]

Sorry to crash the party, I'm usually ENFP these days. I just wanted to pipe in that I had a hard time with all the NF save the world bullshit too. Not that I'm opposed to helping others, only that some of the descriptions are gag-inducing.

My mom introduced me to type via Keirsey, and she would always get mad that I would type as Rational rather than Idealist.The problem was that I didn't understand my "temperament" the way Keirsey expounds. Selfless healers who are pure of heart, blah, blah, blah. To me, the description sounds less like an actual type, and more like the idealized self-image of a preening fool.

Or at the very least, it's a superficial description by someone who doesn't realize that living a moral life takes a lot of work, and even then you still make tons of mistakes. When people describe "goodness" and "purity" as an innate temperament, they are abdicating their own moral responsibility. Usually this abdication manifests itself in the form of two different rationalizations: (A) They either laud goodness as unattainable/heroic, so no one should expect them to attain such heights, or (B) They try to "Garden-of-Eden" moral behaviour, by claiming good people are only good because they are innocent and/or simple-minded. Either way, it's dumb.

Ironically, the people Keirsey cites as examples of the type, were very conflicted, tormented souls who definitely didn't see themselves as pure (Mother Teresa, Gandhi, MLK). In the case of Mother Teresa, I would argue she made the world a worse place, in her desperate attempts to reconcile herself with Christian teachings. She went through some major spiritual struggles. That's a whole other kettle of fish, however, so let's just end it there.

 

[renaiziphonts]

My dream is to facilitate telomere regeneration. It could add hundreds of years onto the average lifespan if it works. If it works even better, it could make me live forever. I am completely incapable of accepting the idea of immortality, and the fact that I think I can change that -that I could live forever when 107.7 billion people have died -is hubris at it's greatest form. I think I can outsmart god, nature, and death itself, and I sort of hate myself for it. I hate the fact that I think it's possible, I hate the fact that it really isn't, and I hate the fact that I refuse to believe I can do it, but at the end of the day I can't not try.

I guess I am insurmountably naive, and for every amount of arrogance I have in thinking I can change the world, I hate myself because I haven't.
There's the plight of the NF.



You know, the truly sucky part of knowing I'm smart, is that now I have to do something great. It would be a sin of omission to just live a peaceful simple life.