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  1. #11
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    6w7 so/sx
    EII Ne


    To me they seem like two very different domains.

    For the most part I feel like it is fairly clear what I should aim for in life to "make the world a better place" - be a compassionate, generous, and considerate person, try to guide others on paths that are wholesome and healthy if my advice is asked, be aware of how my life impacts my environment and behave such that I minimize the damage I do and try to give back... I always appreciate when people say they want to make the world a better place because it implies a big-picture and altruistic focus. I have never really taken that wording in particular as being especially haughty, because it's just a goal. It just speaks to what the person would like to do. It seems to me like there are a multitude of ways someone can help the world in general and all they need to do to achieve that goal is contribute a little in their own individual way.

    That said, I do know what you are talking about in your last sentence, and I agree with Z Buck that if they are doing it for less wholesome reasons then it is likely to be tainted. I have also run into a few people who seem very shallow and idealistic like this, but part of it is that they don't like sharing about their own struggles, and so they tend to come off as naive and stuck-up, though from knowing them I learned that they do have plenty of realistic thought and negative experience, but tend to keep it inside.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009


    Sorry to crash the party, I'm usually ENFP these days. I just wanted to pipe in that I had a hard time with all the NF save the world bullshit too. Not that I'm opposed to helping others, only that some of the descriptions are gag-inducing.

    My mom introduced me to type via Keirsey, and she would always get mad that I would type as Rational rather than Idealist.The problem was that I didn't understand my "temperament" the way Keirsey expounds. Selfless healers who are pure of heart, blah, blah, blah. To me, the description sounds less like an actual type, and more like the idealized self-image of a preening fool.

    Or at the very least, it's a superficial description by someone who doesn't realize that living a moral life takes a lot of work, and even then you still make tons of mistakes. When people describe "goodness" and "purity" as an innate temperament, they are abdicating their own moral responsibility. Usually this abdication manifests itself in the form of two different rationalizations: (A) They either laud goodness as unattainable/heroic, so no one should expect them to attain such heights, or (B) They try to "Garden-of-Eden" moral behaviour, by claiming good people are only good because they are innocent and/or simple-minded. Either way, it's dumb.

    Ironically, the people Keirsey cites as examples of the type, were very conflicted, tormented souls who definitely didn't see themselves as pure (Mother Teresa, Gandhi, MLK). In the case of Mother Teresa, I would argue she made the world a worse place, in her desperate attempts to reconcile herself with Christian teachings. She went through some major spiritual struggles. That's a whole other kettle of fish, however, so let's just end it there.

  3. #13
    Senior Member renaiziphonts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    9W1 sx


    My dream is to facilitate telomere regeneration. It could add hundreds of years onto the average lifespan if it works. If it works even better, it could make me live forever. I am completely incapable of accepting the idea of immortality, and the fact that I think I can change that -that I could live forever when 107.7 billion people have died -is hubris at it's greatest form. I think I can outsmart god, nature, and death itself, and I sort of hate myself for it. I hate the fact that I think it's possible, I hate the fact that it really isn't, and I hate the fact that I refuse to believe I can do it, but at the end of the day I can't not try.

    I guess I am insurmountably naive, and for every amount of arrogance I have in thinking I can change the world, I hate myself because I haven't.
    There's the plight of the NF.

    You know, the truly sucky part of knowing I'm smart, is that now I have to do something great. It would be a sin of omission to just live a peaceful simple life.

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