[MBTI General] Confidence and Guessing What Others Think

[animenagai]

Sooo... I often wonder what people think. As people, we only ever truly experience our own experiences first hand, so it's always been fascinating to me when other people explain thought processes that are completely different. MBTI has obviously fueled this fire, and now I have new tools and reasons to wonder what other people are thinking about. I was completely happy with this habit, until I realised that this could be affecting my confidence. I am a classic overthinker, and a sensitive one at that. There are often times where I'll blow something (or nothing at all) out of proportion, and end up feeling uncomfortable about things I've really just imagined. I also think this holds me back in the dating game. Do I believe that 'nice guys never win'? No, I don't, so I don't think being more thoughtful in this way per se hurts my chances. What I do believe however is that confidence is one of the sexiest things to a woman, and getting worried over what someone else may think can be insecure. The fact that I'm NeFi means that I can never 'just know' what someone is thinking about, like an INFJ for example. I just end up going "hmmmm I wonder what they're thinking" a lot, so I'm not sure if this can become a point of confidence for me.

So here's my conundrum -- how can I keep playing out hypothetical scenarios involving someone else's psyche while staying and coming off as confident?

 

[labyrinth_perhaps]

I wish I knew, this is one of my biggest problems. EX: I'll know when someone is upset at me a lot of times, with out them even telling me. And I'll confront them upon it, and they'll deny it. Then I'll hear from some random person later, that person was upset with me. Sometimes I feel like i'm reading minds, and then I start to feel insane. Because 5/10 times I'm usually right or wrong. I never know. There has been numerous times when my assumptions are wrong about a person. But I notice as i'm getting older, I'm not as foolish as I thought I was.

My question is: I'm practically pretty young, and i'm just getting in-touch with my intuitive side. I know the difference between intuition and fantasy; but It's sometimes hard to not get lost in the fantasy because of my innocent emotions, and then I really confuse fantasy with intuition, and it's really hard to get back to thinking rationally at that point. So how do I balance out my functions? and keep them align a little bit?

Wouldnt also using my judging function a little more help? since I perceive and I think I get caught up in my own personal chaos way too often. How do you help bring out your judging function?

 

[Starry]

Sooo... I often wonder what people think. As people, we only ever truly experience our own experiences first hand, so it's always been fascinating to me when other people explain thought processes that are completely different. MBTI has obviously fueled this fire, and now I have new tools and reasons to wonder what other people are thinking about. I was completely happy with this habit, until I realised that this could be affecting my confidence. I am a classic overthinker, and a sensitive one at that. There are often times where I'll blow something (or nothing at all) out of proportion, and end up feeling uncomfortable about things I've really just imagined. I also think this holds me back in the dating game. Do I believe that 'nice guys never win'? No, I don't, so I don't think being more thoughtful in this way per se hurts my chances. What I do believe however is that confidence is one of the sexiest things to a woman, and getting worried over what someone else may think can be insecure. The fact that I'm NeFi means that I can never 'just know' what someone is thinking about, like an INFJ for example. I just end up going "hmmmm I wonder what they're thinking" a lot, so I'm not sure if this can become a point of confidence for me.

So here's my conundrum -- how can I keep playing out hypothetical scenarios involving someone else's psyche while staying and coming off as confident?

There's a lot of ground covered in this OP...so much that it may call for me to add more later as the thoughts come to me but a couple of things that jump out at me right away...

Confidence in a man is often experienced by me as a 2 dimensional 'veil' rather than a quality that comes from within and radiates outward. And it's not that I feel confidence is false or always false...to the contrary...most 'confidences' I encounter are very real... but they are earth-bound having been manufactured by the individual...and not earned...not sourced from the beyond like authentic strength and courage.

Confidence helps you navigate society and social structures (being a sort of structure in and of itself.) Courage is what is needed to navigate Life. Confidence can create an illusion of possessing courage. Courage is sitting naked and fully awake at the center of all your failures and insecurities and pain and sickness and fears...and saying "I still choose to do what is right."

^^I make no secret which of these two I find a gazillion times more attractive in a man.


As an ENFP I do really well in/at the initial stages of a relationship...and really well once the relationship is comfortable and we feel safe and secure with one another. There's a point though...an in between phase in relationships where I don't do well...at all. Once I recognize that *things* are becoming serious...once I start to notice that I'm allowing myself to depend on them...that I'm approaching the Event Horizon (<-this is an analogy coined by Disco Biscuit)...that's when I lose my 'confidence.' That's when I start creating all kinds of weirdo connections to their psyche in my mind. I start letting the bizarre, unreal scenarios play out in my head.

^What I do...what has worked for me is being very honest with my partner about this unfortunate part of who I am...and allowing them to help walk me through what without them looks like an insurmountable step. It takes courage for me to do this

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

So here's my conundrum -- how can I keep playing out hypothetical scenarios involving someone else's psyche while staying and coming off as confident?

You can't.

Confidence is being you and not caring if she likes it or not.

The key is to know that there is someone who will like it even if the particular "she" in question doesn't.

 

[Redbone]

Courage is sitting naked and fully awake at the center of all your failures and insecurities and pain and sickness and fears...and saying "I still choose to do what is right."

*sigh*

As far as the OP goes, I have this problem, too.

 

[animenagai]

Confidence in a man is often experienced by me as a 2 dimensional 'veil' rather than a quality that comes from within and radiates outward. And it's not that I feel confidence is false or always false...to the contrary...most 'confidences' I encounter are very real... but they are earth-bound having been manufactured by the individual...and not earned...not sourced from the beyond like authentic strength and courage.

Confidence helps you navigate society and social structures (being a sort of structure in and of itself.) Courage is what is needed to navigate Life. Confidence can create an illusion of possessing courage. Courage is sitting naked and fully awake at the center of all your failures and insecurities and pain and sickness and fears...and saying "I still choose to do what is right."

I see what you're saying, and yes, I can say that I have more courage than confidence. Maybe this is just something I have to accept, and the way out of the quagmire without sacrificing who I am.

You can't.

Confidence is being you and not caring if she likes it or not.

The key is to know that there is someone who will like it even if the particular "she" in question doesn't.

Yes, that's precisely what I mean by 'confidence', but things aren't that simple. At this stage of my life, asking these questions is just part of who I am. Therefore, 'being me' will partially involve asking these questions. I feel like I'm not really being myself if don't do this at all. See this paradox?

Wouldnt also using my judging function a little more help? since I perceive and I think I get caught up in my own personal chaos way too often. How do you help bring out your judging function?

Maybe the key is to use the other judging function more -- Te. I might start asking myself what my reads/intuitions/projections are based on, and asking if they are well-grounded or just wisps of fancy.

 

[NPcomplete]

So here's my conundrum -- how can I keep playing out hypothetical scenarios involving someone else's psyche while staying and coming off as confident?

I wonder how classic overthinkers high-five each other...

Anyway, I'd say that you have to be conscious of the fact that speculation IS speculation, and therefore not necessarily based on reality. Wellll, actually you put it more eloquently here:

Maybe the key is to use the other judging function more -- Te. I might start asking myself what my reads/intuitions/projections are based on, and asking if they are well-grounded or just wisps of fancy.

At least you don't imagine conversations you had with friends and later are surprised when their real life selves don't know what you're talking about.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yes, that's precisely what I mean by 'confidence', but things aren't that simple. At this stage of my life, asking these questions is just part of who I am. Therefore, 'being me' will partially involve asking these questions. I feel like I'm not really being myself if don't do this at all. See this paradox?

Yes I do see, and have (in the past) battled with the same issue.

A better way to put it would be. Be you... but the you you would be if you weren't single.

Confidence is knowing that your shit has value to the opposite sex even when you don't have the tangible proof of being with someone to prove it.

If that sounds difficult... well it is.

If you were with someone, you wouldn't be insecure about your value to the opposite sex and would just act like the "real" you.

The insecurity isn't what's real, what's beneath it is.

 

[animenagai]

I wonder how classic overthinkers high-five each other...

Anyway, I'd say that you have to be conscious of the fact that speculation IS speculation, and therefore not necessarily based on reality.

At least you don't imagine conversations you had with friends and later are surprised when their real life selves don't know what you're talking about.

Damn Alc, maybe you should take over as the OP . Mind-five (high-mind? High cerebral cortex?)!

Hmmmm on a more serious note, we can remind ourselves that our speculations are only speculations, but that doesn't stop us from speculating in the first place. There's still that confidence (or looking confident) issue.

Yes I do see, and have (in the past) battled with the same issue.

A better way to put it would be. Be you... but the you you would be if you weren't single.

Confidence is knowing that your shit has value to the opposite sex even when you don't have the tangible proof of being with someone to prove it.

If that sounds difficult... well it is.

If you were with someone, you wouldn't be insecure about your value to the opposite sex and would just act like the "real" you.

The insecurity isn't what's real, what's beneath it is.

I don't think I explained myself very well, so I'll try and do better here. Most of my wonderings have nothing to do with attraction. I've often wondered what my INTJ flatmate/father was thinking, and I've done mental simulations where I try to imagine the experiences of thinking like an INFJ. Heck, I've done this with just about every type. It's just fascinating. In terms of day to day stuff, I wonder what my friends/family think all the time. I don't even think it's all about security, it's just a knee-jerk reaction at this point. This is just my way of dealing with social interactions. So, coming back to your point, I don't think just acting like a married man or whatever would solve this, because a lot of this isn't about romantic/sexual relationships. I will still wonder what other people are thinking, and that can easily come off as insecure (sometimes it is, sometimes it's not).

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

So, coming back to your point, I don't think just acting like a married man or whatever would solve this, because a lot of this isn't about romantic/sexual relationships. I will still wonder what other people are thinking, and that can easily come off as insecure (sometimes it is, sometimes it's not).

If girls aren't at issue then whats the problem?

If your a naturally curious person, then just be that.

I'm failing to see any real detriment to the behavior if it doesn't revolve around attracting someone.

Shit all I do is try to figure out what others are thinking, being a good salesperson is like 90% that.

 

[animenagai]

If girls aren't at issue then whats the problem?

If your a naturally curious person, then just be that.

I'm failing to see any real detriment to the behavior if it doesn't revolve around attracting someone.

Shit all I do is try to figure out what others are thinking, being a good salesperson is like 90% that.

What I'm trying to say is that me acting like I was taken doesn't stop me from looking insecure to the laaaaaaadies.

 

[Starry]

I see what you're saying, and yes, I can say that I have more courage than confidence. Maybe this is just something I have to accept, and the way out of the quagmire without sacrificing who I am.

When you imagine what it is that other people are thinking/feeling... are you saying you are more likely to imagine things poorly when it comes to romantic relationships? Or is it equal across relationship lines as in you are just as likely to imagine poor thoughts and feelings stemming from your father as you are a female romantic interest?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

What I'm trying to say is that me acting like I was taken doesn't stop me from looking insecure to the laaaaaaadies.

I don't think you understand quite what I was getting at, but that's ok.

If you don't mind me asking what else makes you look insecure?

 

[fghw]

My use of Ti and Ne rather than Ni an d some Je function causes this same problem for me. Sometimes I wish I could have just a minute to analyze whatever social situation I'm in without being labelled "shy" before I even begin to interact. I usually spend too much time analyzing new people that by the time I'm ready to talk to them, everyone else are already best friends and the person is convinced that I don't like them.

 

[NPcomplete]

Damn Alc, maybe you should take over as the OP . Mind-five (high-mind? High cerebral cortex?)!

Hmmmm on a more serious note, we can remind ourselves that our speculations are only speculations, but that doesn't stop us from speculating in the first place. There's still that confidence (or looking confident) issue.

I don't think I'm getting your point here. Do you mean that speculating and creating mental maps that may or may not be grounded in reality make you look less confident?

 

[animenagai]

When you imagine what it is that other people are thinking/feeling... are you saying you are more likely to imagine things poorly when it comes to romantic relationships? Or is it equal across relationship lines as in you are just as likely to imagine poor thoughts and feelings stemming from your father as you are a female romantic interest?

It's a general thing. I often wonder if I could have said things better, or if I should have made that joke, in any interaction I may be in. I think just thinking so much about what other people think, can be a sign of being insecure.

I don't think you understand quite what I was getting at, but that's ok.

If you don't mind me asking what else makes you look insecure?

Ummm... being in heated arguments from time to time, being too competitive, whining about certain situations like not having a job or a GF... that's all that comes to mind right now.

 

[skylights]

Hehe, this makes me laugh a little because I think it's basically the modus operadi of an e6 to be doing this constantly. I'm a sensitive overthinker too, obviously.

But I don't think the scenario-producing game is necessarily a bad thing. Like you said, it's fascinating, it's often entertaining, and I think it can help immensely with empathizing. I suspect how much confidence you're demonstrating has more to do with how you use the results of the what-are-they-thinking game, rather than whether you play it. Like whether you let your hypothesized answers change your course... or at least, how quickly you let them change your course. We are both imaginative and reactive enneatypes, which I think is significant here. The more healthy we are, the less we react dramatically. For me, I have to ask myself things like: Am I reacting to my hypothesized answers out of fear, or am I taking them in perspective as potential but not real, letting their possibilities inform me but not direct me? Am I letting my imagination pull me around, or am I standing firmly on the ground, letting my hypothesized answers guide my vision and my actions but not taking control of my decisions? Who is in charge here? In other words, I don't think the guessing itself is a problem. I think the way one responds to it can be.

And at least personally, I feel like my confidence really comes from a separate place. For me it's more of a deep body-and-energy place. It's not a surface, up-front sort of thing, not racing ahead like my thoughts. More like a deep, wide, clear, steady sapphire pool of feeling confident in myself. For me it's more physical and emotional than mental, feeling strong, capable, and deeply caring. I'm certainly socially shy and not always the most outwardly confident. I know that personally, feeling grounded in my body is a huge confidence boost. When I feel strong and athletic, that gives me a lot of inward confidence, like it feels good to be who I am so I'm going to keep doing it. I also get confidence from feeling competent and meaningful - if I'm doing the things in my life I want to do, if I'm achieving my goals, if I'm enjoying my life. Those are the sorts of things that build me up and make me feel like I love who I am, which makes me much more resilient. It's a feeling that quiets my mind from racing so much and lets it focus on what I really care about, which includes genuine and compassionate connection with people, as well as sensuality and sexuality.

So that all is to say... I wonder if the answer is just return to your core again and again... return to what makes you tick again and again. I think we have a native sense of what is good and healthy. If you're getting lost in the guessing game, pull back inwards again, recenter on what you really care about, and return. Go back to what is most genuine... who you most truly are... the interactions that make you feel lit up and warm inside. I think a lot can get lost in overanalysis in relationships. I've been in my relationship almost three years now and I still have to stop my crazy thoughts from flying and return to figuring out what is deep and real, what is true versus what is an overwrought mental elaboration playing on my fears.

On the bright side, there have been studies demonstrating that people tend to overestimate others' abilities. People are statistically likely to believe what someone says when they say it. So while I'm no advocate of false confidence - Starry made the important clarification between false veneer and true depth of courage - I also think there's an art to letting things just be okay. Again, to me as an e6, this is one of the weirdest and craziest things for me to wrap my head around, but like 9 times out of 10 when I'm worried about something, if I just let it go, things turn out okay. That awkward thing you might have said... that weird joke that no one got... that day you were just an asshole about everything... people are way more caught up in their own concerns and tend to forget stuff like this unless it pings as "super important" on their radar for some special reason. So sometimes it's just okay to let it be okay. And that's kind of one of those deep well things for me. So shit's flying right now... oh well. It'll be fine in a while. Duck into the sapphire pool, trust and wait, give it a few days to blow over. The song and dance of life goes on. One minor aberration is unlikely to lose you something important - if it does, it wasn't on very steady ground to begin with, and it's your choice to actively try to solidify that ground or to just move on.

 

[Starry]

It's a general thing. I often wonder if I could have said things better, or if I should have made that joke, in any interaction I may be in. I think just thinking so much about what other people think, can be a sign of being insecure.

Umm...I'm reading this...I've done so now approx 17 times...and the image that keeps coming into my mind are the thousands of married woman all across the US that went and filed divorce papers today. And I wonder how many of those were filed on the basis of "my husband couldn't give a shit what I think...how I feel...how his behavior and actions impact me..." (<-this image being separate from all the husbands that did the same today for the same reasons...)

While confidence and arrogance/self-centeredness are often difficult to distinguish from one another (yes, many women are attracted to "arrogant-confidence" and I would suggest avoiding them like you might avoid dirty toilets in a public restroom...) but confidence isn't necessarily ruled-out on the basis of caring how another thinks and feels...especially a love interest/beloved...

What else do you think might be occurring for you here...?

 

[animenagai]

[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]

That's awesome! That was really helpful. Thanks!

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

About the divorce thing, lol yeah guess I have a one up on those bastards.

Thanks everyone for all your help! Really appreciate it. Just talking about it put a lot of things in perspective for me.

 

[skylights]

[MENTION=4894]animenagai[/MENTION] Glad to be helpful I enjoyed writing and thinking about this one.