• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NF] Why Do NFs Apologize So Much?

faith

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
408
MBTI Type
INFJ
When I apologize, it's usually for one of 3 reasons:

1) I sincerely think I've done wrong and I feel obligated to be honest about it.

2) I'm attempting to diffuse a confrontation because I don't think the other person can handle it.

3) I'm attempting to diffuse a confrontation because the other person is boring me and I'd just like them to shut up.

I don't do #3 very often--more likely I'll just drop the subject without further comment.

Many times I do believe I've done wrong and, as I expect other people to own up to their mistakes, I demand the same of myself.

Sometimes I think that the person is more important than the topic at hand, or than my expression of feelings on the topic. Many people are hurting pretty badly, and truth doesn't *have* to be expressed with all the sensitivity of a jackhammer. If my opinion on something is very important, and the person signals that they aren't able to handle my opinion in the manner I've expressed it, then I'll attempt to back up, repair the damages, and express that opinion in a more useful fashion.

At that point, my apologies have to do with being the bigger person and not demanding that they take steps they claim they are not able to handle. Maybe they could handle those steps, but it's not my job to force them to. If it's someone I know quite well, I can better determine when they are able to take those steps. Online, I really hardly know anyone so I think it's safer not to risk causing people more pain than they already face.


And, substitute, I agree with targo about "the world" seeming to scorn sensitivity. I think most of us--whoever we are and whatever type--feel we've been scorned for being who we are. The fact is that people tend to say negative things more quickly than positive ones. The person who berates you for lacking sensitivity is unlikely to tell targo what a wonderfully sensitive person she is. And the one who scolds targo for being too sensitive is unlikely to show open admiration for your bluntness and straightforward honesty. Unfortunately, it's the negative that more often gets voiced.
 

targobelle

~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
enfp
That just sucks... for you I mean :hug:

FWIW, I often look to people like you as role models, cos unlike some people who take their MBTI type as an excuse to lean even more towards their preferences, I tend to use it as a way to see where my failings and weaknesses are and work on them. And since I know my weaknesses involve sometimes seeming cold and detached and overly analytical, I tend to look towards warm, caring and kind people as role models.

I think it's wrong for your husband to be that way with you, and I reckon most people would agree. It doesn't sound like a very ENTP-ish trait to me, to be so controlling and unaccepting of diversity. To me it's like a fundamental part of me to completely accept people as they are and not try to change them.


THANKS Like you I also try to see where I fail and work on them


As for my husband he is only like that with me... the entp/enfp isn't the best of matches as far as personalities go. He accepts me to a point, but he wants to fix me. Pull me out of my 'funk' so to speak.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
This is weird because even though I am quick to apologize if I feel the urge, I am also way more confrontational than my INTP. He has talked me out of burning more than one bridge.
 

Park

New member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
263
MBTI Type
INTP
This is weird because even though I am quick to apologize if I feel the urge, I am also way more confrontational than my INTP. He has talked me out of burning more than one bridge.

Wouldn't that be the J in motion - closure?
 

girlnamedbless

New member
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
186
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Personally, I've found that NFJs don't apologize as much as NFPs. Since the J is the judging trait, NFJs tend to stick to their strong opinions. I've had debates/discussions with a couple of INFJs before, and man do they stick to their guns.. never really apologized either. (Not that I expect them to.) On the opposite hand.. my INFP friend apologizes ALL the time.. like if I give her a ride home, she'll apologize.. and each time I tell her if I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't! She's also more uncomfortable in a discussion of conflicting views as compared to the NFJ. So I think the J vs P has a lot to do with it.
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
Personally, I've found that NFJs don't apologize as much as NFPs. Since the J is the judging trait, NFJs tend to stick to their strong opinions. I've had debates/discussions with a couple of INFJs before, and man do they stick to their guns.. never really apologized either. (Not that I expect them to.) On the opposite hand.. my INFP friend apologizes ALL the time.. like if I give her a ride home, she'll apologize.. and each time I tell her if I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't! She's also more uncomfortable in a discussion of conflicting views as compared to the NFJ. So I think the J vs P has a lot to do with it.

Yes I agree with this, and may go as far as to say it affects many P's, including SP's and TP's. I know a lot of SP's who will apologize even if you accidentally hit their head or something, as if to say "Oh pardon me o great one, that my stupid head had the audacity to be where your arm chose to swing!".... but that could just be general Britishness...

Sometimes I perceive that someone's non-plussed with me and though I can't figure out why, I might apologize anyway just to smooth things over, depending on the context... I mean, if I've got to work with them and an actual friendship isn't on the cards b/c of professionalism etc, then it's easier really to just keep things smooth and stroke them down, otherwise it gets impossible to work when they're all prickly. Of course when it's someone who is particularly prickly, I may find myself apologising a lot, so they'll probably come to see it as a trait of my character, when it's just what they bring out in me...
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Here's an example:
Knock knock on door.
T: Yes.
F: Park, do you have a moment?
T: Yes.
F: Am I disturbing.
T: No.
F: I'm not sure if it's appropriate to ask you this. I know you have a lot on your mind today. However, if it's not too much trouble....... I'm *not* saying it has to be today nor tomorrow and if you would rather I came back and asked another time that's fine.........

I think it's cute. I understand the considerate thoughts behind this behaviour.......but gosh it can annoy me.

Similar to when I receive an e.mail which I expect contains some bad respond or bad news. I quickly skim through the bla bla..... until I react *however* or *but*.

E.g.
Dear Park
While we have enjoyed working with your company and have appreciated the interpersonal contact.........are *still* open to co-working with you in the future bla bla .......
bla
bla
bla

However...........and it's after the *however* the essential part starts.

Oh, Park, this was a "Nasal Coffee Squirt" moment! Ugggh.

Now I'm going to be paranoid of the times I get too apologetic myself...

I am reading the rest of the thread with great interest, although I don't have time to ponder and respond at the moment...

I will say that I feel like Substitute -- I know the NFs are talking about how they feel expected to be less emotional and personal and all of that by society, and I do that that pressure is there, but really, the pressure comes from both ends... I've felt a lot of pressure to "be nice" and not so cold all the time. I think context has a great deal to do with when the pressure becomes more apparent.
 

Park

New member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
263
MBTI Type
INTP
I will say that I feel like Substitute -- I know the NFs are talking about how they feel expected to be less emotional and personal and all of that by society, and I do that that pressure is there, but really, the pressure comes from both ends... I've felt a lot of pressure to "be nice" and not so cold all the time. I think context has a great deal to do with when the pressure becomes more apparent.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

It's definetly a two way pressure. I've too been called cold, unemotional and selfish by people close to me more times than I care to remember and compared to them, *I am*. There are emotional needs and desires I'll never be able to fullfill without violating myself, that's just the way it is and I plan to live the rest of my life being perceived by some as a cold, selfish person and as others as a kind bla bla...insert other virtues person. If nothing else, at least I can try and be coherent to myself (and that can be difficult enough standing alone).
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Wouldn't that be the J in motion - closure?
More than likely.

I'll add, too, that it's only online that I've been accused of being too sensitive. IRL, I've been accused more than once of being too cold, etc, especially when I was young and less comfortable with any display of emotion.
 

Park

New member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
263
MBTI Type
INTP
More than likely.

I'll add, too, that it's only online that I've been accused of being too sensitive. IRL, I've been accused more than once of being too cold, etc, especially when I was young and less comfortable with any display of emotion.

I think introverts can be perceived that way at first hand regardless of type. Being *too* sensitive or *too* cold is allways relative to ones surroundings. So question allways is what to use people's perceptions for - if anything.
 

Nighthawk

New member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
423
MBTI Type
INTP
I'll add, too, that it's only online that I've been accused of being too sensitive. IRL, I've been accused more than once of being too cold, etc, especially when I was young and less comfortable with any display of emotion.

I'm often told that I am a very hard person to get to know. I attribute that most to the introversion however.
 

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'll usually give one run-through of my side of the argument; if my position doesn't get any traction with the other party, then I'll drop it. I'm not going to spend a day typing messages to a stranger trying to tell him something he doesn't want to hear.

Arguing is a low priority with me. If anything, I need the other party to evince some obvious openmindedness and desire to hear more before I'll invest time and energy in an exchange.

Also, I don't feel bad backing off an argument. There's no loss of pride there. Since arguing is a low priority, my self-esteem isn't invested in the idea of winning or losing arguments.

FL
I dislike this, sometimes (esp. NTs) we are merely testing the argument/idea. If you fold, then we might decide your argument/idea is wrong... and a good idea is lost.

:sadbanana:
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I think introverts can be perceived that way at first hand regardless of type. Being *too* sensitive or *too* cold is allways relative to ones surroundings. So question allways is what to use people's perceptions for - if anything.

I'm often told that I am a very hard person to get to know. I attribute that most to the introversion however.
Yes, it has a lot to do with introversion. I can remember a couple of incidents when I was a teenager of being verbally beat about the head for my coldness when I was feeling anything but.

I have never been particularly comfortable with displays of strong emotion, especially my own. I hate the vulnerability most of all- my strong emotions are almost always expressed in tears. It's embarrassing.

My four pregnancies cured me of trying to fight it. With my hormones all out of whack like that there was just no way to stop the waterworks so I gave up. It turns out it's not as bad as I thought it would be and both my happy tears and my sad tears have let a couple of close friends realize that I do care very deeply about them. I'm not sure they had that assurance before. But I still don't particularly like being that way.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Personally, I've found that NFJs don't apologize as much as NFPs. Since the J is the judging trait, NFJs tend to stick to their strong opinions. I've had debates/discussions with a couple of INFJs before, and man do they stick to their guns.. never really apologized either. (Not that I expect them to.) On the opposite hand.. my INFP friend apologizes ALL the time.. like if I give her a ride home, she'll apologize.. and each time I tell her if I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't! She's also more uncomfortable in a discussion of conflicting views as compared to the NFJ. So I think the J vs P has a lot to do with it.

Maybe you're right. Once an INFP roommate and I went out to eat and the waitress completely screwed up our order. I was hesitant to complain myself cause I didn't want spit in my food, but I wasn't about to pay for something I didn't enjoy. She kept apologizing about her food when we sent it back and I asked why was she apologizing since she didn't do anything wrong. I did some apologizing of my own so maybe we were about equal, but she genuinely felt bad about sending her food back, whereas I was apologizing hoping I didn't find some extra spices in mine. But this same INFP almost bit my head off when we were discussing something, so I don't know.

Sometimes a well placed sincere apology helps calm an escalating situation.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Here's an example:
Knock knock on door.
T: Yes.
F: Park, do you have a moment?
T: Yes.
F: Am I disturbing.
T: No.
F: I'm not sure if it's appropriate to ask you this. I know you have a lot on your mind today. However, if it's not too much trouble....... I'm *not* saying it has to be today nor tomorrow and if you would rather I came back and asked another time that's fine.........

I think it's cute. I understand the considerate thoughts behind this behaviour.......but gosh it can annoy me.
The ultra polite communication is partly cultural. That could actually be a stronger drive than MBTI type. It is based on a different concept of boundaries. There is an assumption that certain boundaries are supposed to be drawn by the person making the request. In other cultural settings, the boundary is assumed to be made by the one receiving the request. It is based on the assumption that the other person could feel pressured by a request. Asking multiple times if it is alright allows the person making the request time to analyze the nuance and response to see if it is actually a problem. It is a more complex, less precise manner of communication than taking people exactly at their word.

IRL I actually do apologize too much. I was raised in a family of strong INFs - especially strong Fs. My apologizing too much is concentrated to my most personal relationships, but that has more to do with a history of rejection and abandonment issues than personality imo.
 
Last edited:

bluebell

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
1,485
MBTI Type
INTP
My apologizing too much is concentrated to my most personal relationships, but that has more to do with a history of rejection and abandonment issues than personality imo.

I'm NT and I also apologise too much IRL, for similar reasons. Once I became aware of it, and aware it can become extremely irritating for others, I made a concious effort to do it less.

This thread [and the Why are NFs so boring thread] has been an interesting insight into why people behave the way they do and how it can be perceived so differently by others. I have some of the so-called NF traits of not reacting, not pushing back, not reacting - I am often quite meek and shy IRL. I think that's more to do with my personal history, though, rather than NF vs NT. Plus I also recently realised that I tend not to get involved in debates and discussions unless I'm 100% sure of what I know (which I rarely am) and if I am totally sure of my knowledge I am too bored by the topic to get involved in the discussions because I've already thought through it all. So while I might be debating with someone in my head and running through what they're likely to say and then going meh, can't be bothered - all they see is silence from me.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Just a funny side-anecdote about feelers and scoldings. I dated a guy once, but don't really know his type, except he was an FJ. A friend of ours had some good news and I said "Hey that's pretty nice." It's just a little phrase I use to say something positive. Well he got really offended, took me aside and scolded me saying, "Pretty nice! it is very nice!!!" It made me feel like crap at the time, but I have gotten a lot of humor mileage out of it since. Interestingly enough, I didn't apologize, but furrowed my brows in a mildly grumpy fashion.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I know... sigh... it's just so... different (!).

Now imagine something of the like being done with Ti. Analogously, you'd then perceive nearly everything as impersonal.
 

niffer

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,217
MBTI Type
ENfP
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm okay with being blunt and to the point with people, because "diffusing" what I need to say with apologies and being all cautious makes me feel insincere, like I'm not -there- with them. Most of the time I say sorry because I'm EXTREMELY clumsy and usually am not aware of the trail of destruction I can leave behind. This trail of destruction comes in many forms. If what I do ends up hurting someone, then I'll use my magical ENF skills to make them feel better. I like to make sure things are running smoothly; no hard feelings, nothing left to be hostile and silent and stuffy about.
 

Cerpin_Taxt

New member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
132
MBTI Type
INTP
I've apologized for things that haven't been my fault, but its mostly so i dont have to acknowledge the other person's -IMO-unrequired apology.
 
Top