[NF] telling Fi from Fe based on smile and eyes

[miked277]

this may seem somewhat crazy but i have this idea that you can get a vague idea of a feeler's primary or secondary functional attitude based on the way they smile and their eyes while smiling.

it may be just me but i've noticed for a bit now that extraverted feelers' smile seems, i don't want to say forced but definitely more formal than a introverted feeler's smile. as if, the Fi person's smile is more playful or casual. with the eyes too i've noticed a trend where when a Fe person smiles their eyes kinda stay wide or go wider and when a Fi person smiles they more often do the opposite and i guess "smile with their eyes."

maybe this only applies when taking pictures or in a work setting as opposed to when hanging out with friends or w/e but yeah. i figure it's something worth running by you guys to see just how crazy i am

i'm bringing this up btw because i met what i *think* was an enfj the other day and i decided to revisit the topic and possibly get some feedback.

edit
just to be clear i love both ways of smiling. there's no right or wrong way to do it... the only wrong thing to do you could say would be to not smile when the situation warrents it or if thats just how you feel.

one thing in particular i like about Fe primary or secondary people is that i don't have to always reflect their smile back at them for them to keep it up. it's like once they know i like them that assumption is more or less set in stone so i can be my usual self, which is to say not bursting with emotional energy but rather giving my subtle hints of affection, and that doesn't affect their energy towards me to the same degree as a Fi primary or secondary person.

example would be the other day i was buying some new shirts (amazing for me) and the girl at the cash register came at me with a nice smile and some enthusiasm (esfp i would guess) and i just kind of ignored it since i wasn't in the best frame of mind at the time. after that while ringing me up she went totally cold and i felt like a big asshole for not returning the smile and ruining this little encounter. anyways, this edit has gone on long enough to i'll just finish it here.

 

[Jeffster]

Wow, you're totally blowing my mind, dude.

One more thing to try to observe in people. Too bad I'm the only one left at work today.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Nice job, this topic was enough to get a lurker like me to post.

The phrase you just used "smile with your eyes," I was told i do this many times when I worked as a cashier. I had no clue what it meant but people said it like it was a good thing. Whether or not this applies to all Fi Dominate types is unclear but I do tend to do this.

Something interesting to think about is if most introverts do this rather than just introverted feelers. How do you smile as a Ti Dominant?

 

[cn1234567890]

hah i have a bunch of photos of me and an INFP friend and i'm looking them over now..

 

[Lethe]

it may be just me but i've noticed for a bit now that extraverted feelers' smile seems, i don't want to say forced but definitely more formal than a introverted feeler's smile. as if, the Fi person's smile is more playful or casual. with the eyes too i've noticed a trend where when a Fe person smiles their eyes kinda stay wide or go wider and when a Fi person smiles they more often do the opposite and i guess "smile with their eyes."

Agreed, particularly with the bolded parts. There is this one INFP I know (albeit an INFP-in-denial-about-their-type), who smiles brightly with their eyes. Many FPs also have this way of communicating through them as well.

 

[wedekit]

I know 3 ENFJs (Fe) that have very informal laughs and smiles. They sound and look like gleeful, giggling children when they are moved to laughter.

When I smile I don't open my eyes, I smile with my cheeks which makes my eyes squint. Then again, I also know how to fake a genuine smile so that could be it.

 

[Lateralus]

Interesting topic, though I'm not sure how much this relates to Fi/Fe. Uptight people tend to look like their facial expressions are more forced. And I've noticed that Fe tends to be more uptight than Fi, so maybe there is something to this? *shrugs*

I've been given the nickname 'smiles' more than once in my life. I have plenty of Fi and almost no Fe.

 

[miked277]

I know 3 ENFJs (Fe) that have very informal laughs and smiles. They sound and look like gleeful, giggling children when they are moved to laughter.

When I smile I don't open my eyes, I smile with my cheeks which makes my eyes squint. Then again, I also know how to fake a genuine smile so that could be it.

yeah, i think the thing i'm getting at mainly is times when you're supposed to smile or i dunno. maybe a better way to say it is like what you said... Fe types are more likely to give a certain type of smile but can do both whereas Fi types most the times inclinded do it one way.

or it could not be related at all to type... i need to get more first person input really.

 

[Leysing]

My mother is an ESFJ and her smile is always very tense. Her eyes widen so that they seem to pop out.

 

[Falcarius]

Why the hell has Heart not posted in this thread yet?

For what it is worth, no I don't think one can tell Fi from Fe based on smile and eyes, or I can't anyway.

 

[Totenkindly]

I note the distinction, where Fe tends to feel more formal. Note that Fe dominant types are J's by definition, hence it might not feel as free. Usually I feel that some form of specific articulation has to be attached to the connection.

Those who are Fi dominant are P's, so the smiles might seem warmer or more playful. The connection is thus less articulated, more exuded. And they're engaging with their N/S sense, so it's "felt" more than "imposed/articulated."

But I think as people get older and/or more mature, the Fe/Fi thing starts to muddy up a bit. I actually feel like I do Fe more, I can feel warmth but the smile was often a chosen sign. I laugh at my INTP son because we'd just stare at each other sometimes, and then I'd smile at him to show him I cared, and then he'd suddenly smile too as if mirroring me, and then I'd stop and he'd stop... and then we both laughed because we both knew what we were doing.

But that latter laugh? That feels playful and free, more like Fi... something that just resonated inside, not an external symbol, and I responded to it and so did he.

Everyone has all the functions. I think if we learn to recognize the feelings inside and also learn not to try to control the outward expression so much, our warmth can come out spontaneously regardless of type or even considering what "society might think appropriate" or a conscious symbol of our goodwill. In the last few months, I have felt myself warmly engage strangers, spontaneously, without fear, and FEEL it... and felt them respond. It's exhilarating and scary to not be calculating those social connections, and instead to exude them and be vulnerable to whatever comes back.

 

[miked277]

I note the distinction, where Fe tends to feel more formal. Note that Fe dominant types are J's by definition, hence it might not feel as free. Usually I feel that some form of specific articulation has to be attached to the connection.

Those who are Fi dominant are P's, so the smiles might seem warmer or more playful. The connection is thus less articulated, more exuded. And they're engaging with their N/S sense, so it's "felt" more than "imposed/articulated."

But I think as people get older and/or more mature, the Fe/Fi thing starts to muddy up a bit. I actually feel like I do Fe more, I can feel warmth but the smile was often a chosen sign. I laugh at my INTP son because we'd just stare at each other sometimes, and then I'd smile at him to show him I cared, and then he'd suddenly smile too as if mirroring me, and then I'd stop and he'd stop... and then we both laughed because we both knew what we were doing.

But that latter laugh? That feels playful and free, more like Fi... something that just resonated inside, not an external symbol, and I responded to it and so did he.

Everyone has all the functions. I think if we learn to recognize the feelings inside and also learn not to try to control the outward expression so much, our warmth can come out spontaneously regardless of type or even considering what "society might think appropriate" or a conscious symbol of our goodwill. In the last few months, I have felt myself warmly engage strangers, spontaneously, without fear, and FEEL it... and felt them respond. It's exhilarating and scary to not be calculating those social connections, and instead to exude them and be vulnerable to whatever comes back.

yeah, this is pretty much what i was thinking just w/ better and clearer wording... /jealous

and on a side note, it must be cool having an intp kid as an intp parent. if there's one thing i have to possibly look forward to in that department is having a kid like me so i can share all my knowledge w/ them and give them a sort of head start on learning to be an intp compared to having to learn everything on one's own, the hard way. i'm sure any type of kid i could do that w/ but i dunno, i think w/ one like me it would mean a little more to them... and me.

 

[Jae Rae]

For what it is worth, no I don't think one can tell Fi from Fe based on smile and eyes, or I can't anyway.

There's a muscle that's engaged when your smile is genuine - your eyes crinkle at the corners. A forced smile doesn't engage the eyes. There was even a thread about this somewhere...

In any case, I refuse to believe all Fi's do it one way and all Fe's do it the other.

 

[sciski]

Yes, I think you're simply talking about the difference between a polite (or 'false') smile and a genuine smile.

Not all Fe smiles are false, not all Fi smiles are genuine. Maybe the ENFJ you met is giving you the polite smile because they simply don't know you yet, but wishes to express their friendliness in what they consider is a pretty normal manner to do so. I mean - they're smiling, they're showing goodwill... if you accept that rather than stamping it with Fe or Fi, then maybe you and the ENFJ will relax enough around each other so that you won't even notice the type of smile given anymore..

The degree of false vs genuine smiliness really depends on mood and comfort, regardless of type. It seems far more likely a P/J thing than Fe/Fi - I smile genuinely, I'm a J, but I test as P in behaviour - being relaxed in nature (ie generally comfortable) tends to make your emotional expression more relaxed as well. But in stressful situations, my smile will become as tense as a camping trip in peak season (ok, bad pun). So it's not entirely P or J either - just contextual.

 

[Lateralus]

The degree of false vs genuine smiliness really depends on mood and comfort, regardless of type. It seems far more likely a P/J thing than Fe/Fi - I smile genuinely, I'm a J, but I test as P in behaviour - being relaxed in nature (ie generally comfortable) tends to make your emotional expression more relaxed as well. But in stressful situations, my smile will become as tense as a camping trip in peak season (ok, bad pun). So it's not entirely P or J either - just contextual.

I'm confused by this paragraph. You're a J but you test as a P?

You do realize that P/J isn't an actual trait, in itself, right?

 

[sciski]

Yes- I get INFP in dichotomy tests, but use Ni/Fe... hence I'm actually INFJ.

My post was slightly misleading - I realise there's no actual J/P, but there are behavioural traits associated with each, hence it's easy to use them as blanket descriptive terms.

 

[helen]

I have two friends that do that "smile with the eyes thing" perfectly. It is beautiful, breathtaking, and memorable. Like I can picture it vividly when they aren't around, which is by no means true of the average smile when you think of it. And yes, they both have Fi.

I was trying to think if anyone else I know smiles like this on a consistent basis, and I came up with two others, and they also have Fi.

I'd hazard a guess that everyone smiles like this on occasion, but that it's more characteristic of some people and a rarer thing for others. I wouldn't have thought of linking this to Fi vs Fe, but it's an interesting thought and I wouldn't be surprised if it had some bearing.

Fun to think about and observe, but I'd guess there are easier and more reliable ways to go about trying to detect Fe or Fi, if that is what your object is.

 

[Domino]

I use Fe/Fi as the starting point for demystifying anyone I meet.

 

[Jeffster]

I use Fe/Fi as the starting point for demystifying anyone I meet.

I don't know what that means, but I want you to do it to me.

 

[Domino]

I don't know what that means, but I want you to do it to me.

It requires a NERF bat and some Silly String. *wiggles eyebrows*