[INFJ] INFJs who were mistyped

[brainheart]

So this realization has been slowly incubating for the last couple of weeks for me. Reading Jung's Psychological Types put me in the coffin, Lenore Thomson's INJ and INFJ chapters from Personality Types hammered the nails.

And crap, it explains so much. How could I, a social last 4w5 INFP, have sacrificed so much of myself for my loved ones? How could I censor myself so as not to hurt anyone to the extent that I have? How could I constantly be amazed by how my INFP 4w5 social last friend relentlessly stays true to himself and expresses himself so openly when it's something I struggle with on a daily basis? How could I have Fe as an auxiliary when inside I am so very my own person and I suck at small talk and I can be so socially awkward and aloof and prickly? (But I can also be friendly, and charming, and proper, and warm, and I encourage people to share their feelings, and I make a lot of suggestions to people as to what they should do, and I spend way too much time on here 'helping' people vs doing what matters to me...)

Anyway. I don't want this to be a blog. I want to hear from others who were sure they were fi doms- or something else all together- and ended up being ni doms.

I should add that it was Ni that got me considering the possibility that I wasn't an INFP, not Fe vs Fi. Whenever I create or dream (or anything, really) I go very internal, very deep and I see things, mainly singular images but sometimes they are more detailed. I always feel like I'm looking inward, and I can often do this in a very detached and analytical way (always thought this was my five wing), like I'm watching a film that's being projected onto my subconscious. (Lately while my brain was processing Jung I had a dream that another woman entered me because I allowed her to but then she was taking over and I no longer knew what was me and what was her, and she was raping me from the inside, I was bleeding everywhere but no one seemed to notice...)

Every day I'm lost in a dark wood and trying to make my way back through hell so I can once again see the stars.

I suspect a lot of people who are on the fence between INFP and INFJ fail to recognize the extroverted feeling within them, and highlighting the differences between the two probably won't help. So I wanted to mention this, because I thought there was no fucking way that Fe could ever in a million years be my auxiliary. I have been fighting it for so long. The Fe part of me is a pillow smotherer, the part of me I'm ashamed to be.

And I don't want to post this, but I will.

 

[Standuble]

You're an INFJ? After you reading your post I'm inclined to agree. I think you are correct in your assessment. You just need to let go of Fe-related shame. Pragmatically it is a very good function to have.

I am not an INFJ however I feel the need to make a few points which I hope would either reinforce your position or cast doubt upon it. If this isn't the sort of thing you want to discuss then you may treat this post as you see fit. I will hold back from suggesting the possibilities that a) you have fallen into a Forer Effect trap or b) encountered the flaws and limitations of the theory. I will ask though: how is your Si and Te and why would you be ashamed of being Fe?

---

-Your statements regarding Fe could be construed as a form of Fi in the correct light. Fi is indifferent to the values of others but that does not mean that it is insular to the idea of assimilation of another's values or caring about those who hold the views. The former assists in its continuous growth and the latter is just another value it is entitled to hold. My question to you is: would not helping others make you feel like an asshole? Do you value the idea of being a kind and caring person? Are you only inclined to be like this with certain people? You could construe any desires to help others as a tool to prevent value invalidation or a loss of personal integrity. You would have to bear the shame of violating what you believe if you were an asshole when you wanted to be kind.

- Do you know what others are feeling? Do you feel emotionally connected to other around you regardless of closeness? Are the above (upon inspection) achieved more through intellectualism or logical deduction? A point (from what I understand) is that INFPs do not feel connected to anything outside themselves unless it is a special person or entity. Their identifier of where they are in relation to everything else is a Te construct e.g. "I know I have made them upset because tears following a statement made by another implies the aforementioned statement invoked an emotional reaction" or "We are connected as we are inside the same building/structure and are on the same tectonic plate."

- Do your values change via internal triggers e.g. self reflection? I think Ti and Fi are constructs "outside of context" which plough through the world mostly unconcerned where it would fit in a greater schema. It only adjusts or holds its ground for its own reasons.

- IIRC Jung mentioned that introverted feeling utilised "primordial images" as well. I myself utilise very vivid visual mental imagery on creating inner worlds, fantasy worlds and fictional worlds. These are for me experienced as if someone had created them out of invisible ink (with me knowing the pen strokes) and occur almost always in video style cinematics (basically moving sequences which can vary in length for as long as possible) which are separate to each other(yet can easily be identified as related to each other by their content and where they would occur in a sequence of events.) I can rewind them and then add or subtract pieces as I see fit to improve quality or make it more consistent with what I desire (think a conceptual version of the Holodeck on Star Trek.) The detail is as sufficient as the task requires e.g. I can even hear the characters speaking if I need to know this information. I found out in a recent ESTJ thread on here that ESTJs can do the same thing. I would assume Si is the key and the Fi is acting like an organiser or quality control for the whole process.

- I don't relate so much to "the woman rape" you mention except that if this were to occur for me it would do so in the method mentioned above. My version of the dark wood is experienced as if I am drifting and then finding a way to emerge for the purpose of undermining the lack of fulfilment which defines my existence.

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Addendum: It is interesting that you highlight the "fence sitters" could potentially be INFJs rather than the stereotypical view that they are INFPs who can't accept that they aren't INFJs. It's a prevalent idea which casts a dark shadow over the INFP type. You have my thanks.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

[MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION] Perhaps your dominant and auxiliary functions are Ni and Fi, respectively.

 

[brainheart]

Thanks to both of you. I appreciate your comments and I am considering them, but I didn't intend this to be a 'type me' thread so I will refrain from responding. I'll PM you if I feel the need.

Aside from- yes, [MENTION=14363]Standuble[/MENTION], I need to let go of the Fe shame. That's the realization I had last night, but it's not easy. I think there is something incredibly contradictory between being a social last 4w5 and using auxiliary Fe.

And... yes [MENTION=19700]Lyedecker[/MENTION], that was my first conclusion, as you know. But I think it was likely a defense mechanism vs reality.

But as I said, I don't want this to be a type me thread!

 

[skylights]

@brainheart, this is really interesting. I don't really have anything useful to add besides I'm happy for you having that realization/clarification and I think Fe and the social instinct both get scapegoated into being responsible for people's negative experiences of social pressure. Neither is what it's stereotyped to be... I hope you can pull away the threads of guilt that are connected with your conceptions of it.

 

[Galena]

I've thought about it. I like plenty of people who have Fe, but I'd hate it as a verdict on my own type for similar reasons to you, because I don't use it well, in a way that I feel is right.

I am way, way more at home among Ne/Ti types than any of my data should predict. I've been typed INTJ a lot based on NiFi, but I refused it because I'm not a good NTJ in practice (don't ask me to explain, it's about vibe). The only person who has ever definitively typed me a sensor is me, but I'm pretty confident in that Se placement.

 

[brainheart]

I am not an INFJ however I feel the need to make a few points which I hope would either reinforce your position or cast doubt upon it. If this isn't the sort of thing you want to discuss then you may treat this post as you see fit. I will hold back from suggesting the possibilities that a) you have fallen into a Forer Effect trap or b) encountered the flaws and limitations of the theory. I will ask though: how is your Si and Te and why would you be ashamed of being Fe?

Ok. So you were right. And I must say, boy am I relieved because the idea of being auxiliary Fe felt all wrong. What can I say other than-

I guess I'm just...

 

[Standuble]

Ok. So you were right. And I must say, boy am I relieved because the idea of being auxiliary Fe felt all wrong. What can I say other than-

I guess I'm just...

You're back with us? Welcome! I did envy you a little for a while. I wanted a ticket to special snowflake land myself (even if Fe was the host :S)

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Ni and Fi can be very similar. It's not the sign of Ni, that you want to go to deep of your thoughts. I do it as well, and still I did not type myself as Ni dom. INFPs can also be very self-sacrificing , anyway Fi still has pretty great developed compession with others and they really care about people so this does not have to be a sign of Fe. I think Fe is more about social norms and ethics. You can help because you feel it's right... It is helping based on internal ethics and so a sign of strong Fi. Being true to yourself vs. being good for others is a typical 4 or also social conflict of Fi types. If you think determining Fe vs Fi does not help, I'd determine Te vs Ti. Si vs Se does not make any sense to determine in your case, as for ennea 4 they always have this Si melanchic memory card.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

If you think determining Fe vs Fi does not help, I'd determine Te vs Ti. Si vs Se does not make any sense to determine in your case, as for ennea 4 they always have this Si melanchic memory card.

I'd appreciate your insight on how to best determine Te vs Ti.

 

[Stansmith]

[MENTION=19700]Lyedecker[/MENTION]

The basic idea seems to be that when Te is given a widely-accepted method or set of guidelines, he follows it as long as it's efficient. When Ti is given the same guideline or method, he first compares the principles behind it to his own understanding of how things work before deciding to use it.

Te wants results, Ti wants logical understanding.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Nice said [MENTION=18664]Stansmith[/MENTION]... I would use a bit different words in last sentence. Te is about visible causes. In some point you can say they want results, but they are more into logical facts, that are clear, that they can see, such as graphs, or schedules. They also count the best on the well known facts, rather than search in some unknown waters. Ti is much more abstract, rather than following well knows facts, they try to understand things by their own logical process.

 

[21%]

I had problems differentiating between INFJ and INFP at first, but then at the time I was also trying to type my INFP boyfriend, and compared to him I'm so INFJ.

That said, I've always identified a lot more with descriptions of Fi than Fe. I think Fi descriptions sound kinda 4-ish to me.

I've always identified more with what INFJ posters. With INFP posts most of the time I go "Yes, that is very well said!" but I don't feel a sense of kinship beyond the NF-connection that I feel with most NF posters. With INFJs I am like "OMG! I could have said that exactly!" and then I check who the poster is and they are unsurprisingly INFJ.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

That said, I've always identified a lot more with descriptions of Fi than Fe. I think Fi descriptions sound kinda 4-ish to me.

I think this is the biggest problem... 4s are very Fi ennea type. Their needs to be different, inuqe and true to themselves are very typical for Fi dominant types. The thing is, most of the INFJs seem to be 4s, but than the Fe in them has to be a bit harder to spot. It aslo has to be such a contradiction between Fe and strong 4ish Fi similar needs.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

What if we disregard the MBTI schema and ask, could it be possible for an individual to have Ni-Fi rather than Ni-Fe?

 

[brainheart]

As far as INFP and Te goes, I think often it's presented as if it's a function that INFPs are good at. uh, yeah, no. Te is the inferior function. It's what an INFP pretty much sucks at. On cognitive function tests it is always, without fail, my lowest score. Now this isn't to say that Te doesn't like to rear its ugly head, cause it does. Out of nowhere I'll beat myself up about my inefficiency, my inability to manage my time, the fact that I can't stick to a schedule for anything. And then I'll work really hard at being Te-like and criticize people for not being more Te-like. It's the nitpicky, fault finding me, and when I'm like that people who know me well say... uh, you're not being your usual 'you'. What's up? I think INFPs will seem more Te-ish when they are nervous, stressed, or in an uncomfortable situation where they feel they need to seem more analytical or professional. Then they will likely hide behind it, adding to the perception of being cold or unfeeling. It can be the protective crab shell.


Te can become developed in a healthy way in an INFP, sure. But it's an immature function, not what INFPs are naturally good at. Typically my thinking will seem more Ti-ish than Te-ish, probably because I'm an introverted rational type, and so it's more of an issue of confusing Fi with Ti.
[MENTION=6971]21%[/MENTION]

I've always identified more with what INFJ posters. With INFP posts most of the time I go "Yes, that is very well said!" but I don't feel a sense of kinship beyond the NF-connection that I feel with most NF posters. With INFJs I am like "OMG! I could have said that exactly!" and then I check who the poster is and they are unsurprisingly INFJ.

Yes, I think that can be a really good way of determining things. Who sounds like you? Who speaks your language? What resonates?

 

[brainheart]

What if we disregard the MBTI schema and ask, could it be possible for an individual to have Ni-Fi rather than Ni-Fe?

Well, I guess the thing is... you have to extrovert somehow, and according to Jung the auxiliary function is the complete opposite in every way of the dominant function. So... Ni-Te or Fe. What can be problematic and confusing, I think, is that Fi + Ne can create something that looks like Ni while Ni + Fe can create something that looks like Fi.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

What if we disregard the MBTI schema and ask, could it be possible for an individual to have Ni-Fi rather than Ni-Fe?

This is a very difficult theory to agree on. One can not have both dominant and auxiliary functions introverted, or extroverted. If so it is a sign of unhealthy mental state, when most likely the dominant and teritary functions gone a bit crazy together in one's personality. For example, when the ISFP still uses his dominant Fi, but developed Ni to the unhealthy level and looks more like Fi+Ni, that it's most likely a paranoid disorder. The ISFP's Fi+Se nature is not so skilled in using the sudden and strong Ni suggestions, and if the person can't handle them to healthy level, they might be prone to be paranoid. For example an ENFPs are prone to borderline personality disorder, if their Ne+Te loop goes crazy together. Once I found the whole list of cognitive functions and personality disorders, but I can not find it now I guess it was really an old post. In shortcut it's not healthy to be Ni+Fi. It is much more likely, that you are Ni+Fe 4, which might make you feel like Ni+Fi.