[INFP] INFPs and Friendships/Relationships

[Siúil a Rúin]

This really is perhaps the most central issue in my approach to people. Especially people I really like (or at least a certain category of them) I get completely convinced that any attempt of mine to get to know them will be an annoyance. That they will respond and be nice because they're not assholes, but that really they just despise me. I realise this is actually a bit horrible of me; especially if they are nice people they might very well take a genuine interest in me, not out of mere duty. And what perhaps makes it more horrible is that (and this is most likely one of the reasons of the above) is that this is quite often my response to people approaching me. The only two people I've genuinely despised were people who had crushes on me. One of them was actually horrible, but I suspect the other one really didn't deserve it. And of course this is not my usual response - usually when someone shows they like you you like them back for it. Aargh... I hate this so much...

Why did you despise the people who had crushes on you? Were they intrusive?

I have had some people with crushes on me that stressed me out because they got kind of demanding and entitled. They were nice, but they always wanted specific explanations why I didn't want to date them so they could change it. There was a forceful quality. I could see despising that. Im not sure that I despised anyone for that and would try to continue being positive towards them, but did want to just avoid them. That forcefulness and invasion made me not want them as part of my life. Not desiring an intimate connection should not have to be explained and proven in a court of law - or something that feels similar. It's okay even if it is not rational. People are too complex and there are enough of us that it's okay to be choosy for reasons that only make sense to the individual.

 

[Susah]

I'm really not sure why I despised them so much. I wouldn't say they were actually intrusive. At least not the first guy. I didn't know him and he mostly tended to hang around me in a sort of 'stalkerish' mode which made it obvious that he liked me, but he never actually tried to talk to me (he might have tried if I had not ignored him so thoroughly. I am fantastically good at ignoring people). Now that I have some distance towards it I feel really sorry for him - he really didn't deserve it. Not that he knew about it, but still...

But perhaps it is because there is something intrinsically 'demanding' about it, even though it is not something active or intentional. That they force a relationship onto me that I'm not in control of and don't want.

I actually find it very puzzling. I generally like people and it's very rare for me to have negative feelings towards people - even those who perhaps deserve it. And these two are by far the only ones I've really despised.

 

[Southern Kross]

This actually fascinates me a lot. When you get to know someone new and realise that it's a whole new experience. Of course every person is unique, but that does not necessarily mean that your 'attitude' towards everyone is. I mean, it isn't. With acquaintances I don't get this, but with people I get 'involved' with (that sounds odd but I suspect you know what I mean: I don't very often develop a genuine interest about people) I tend to ponder the dynamics of my feelings towards them.

I don't know. For me it comes from learning that I could get a lot out of someone without having the 'connection'. It happened a few years back when I lived in a situation where I was forced to be around people that I wouldn't ordinarily classify as the sort I really would invest in and make an effort to get to know. I had previously been writing people off as, "nice enough, but not my sort of person". Then I realised that in looking for someone to bond perfectly with, I was missing out on all sorts of interesting folk. I had to learn that it wasn't like I had a limited amount of 'friendship' I could hand out, so there was no point in just saving it up for the 'right people'.

 

[Susah]

I don't know. For me it comes from learning that I could get a lot out of someone without having the 'connection'. It happened a few years back when I lived in a situation where I was forced to be around people that I wouldn't ordinarily classify as the sort I really would invest in and make an effort to get to know. I had previously been writing people off as, "nice enough, but not my sort of person". Then I realised that in looking for someone to bond perfectly with, I was missing out on all sorts of interesting folk. I had to learn that it wasn't like I had a limited amount of 'friendship' I could hand out, so there was no point in just saving it up for the 'right people'.

I'm not sure I understand quite how you relate that to what I said, but I do find it interesting - I've had almost the opposite experience. I actively tried to spend time with people I wouldn't normally, thinking that it would be interesting and surely we would get along anyway. And of course they were nice people and one or two I do like, but it really didn't work out very well at all from my point of view. As I can't really keep up very many friendships at once, finding myself spending time with people who I didn't really connect with and making no progress didn't prove very healthy...

But as to 'saving it for the right people' I wouldn't say I do that. At least as far as it implies an active choice. I actually find it quite annoying how few people I actually get interested by, as I'm convinced pretty much everyone is, and it really 'limits my chances' of making new friends and so on...

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Here's another question for INFP's especially E4s

How do you communicate that you are rejecting friendship? How is that distinguished from your introversion, shyness, and/or just irregular communication style?

 

[JivinJeffJones]

I'm terrible at making friends and even worse at keeping them given my tendency to drop off the planet.

I think the best friends I've had are the people I can be both light and heavy with. People I can joke around with and talk about heavier stuff and joke around with some more. People who enjoy the light-hearted and the "deep and meaningful" equally, and reciprocate. People I don't feel trapped into relating with in only one way or the other, and can be all sides of myself around. The best friends I've had are also people I've been forced into close proximity with. School or work or housemates. People I haven't had to seek out. If I do have to seek them out and they don't seek me out the friendship dwindles and dies. Not that I don't still consider them a good friend -- they just become irrelevant to my day-to-day life. A happy memory.

I think all of my closest friendships also involved other friends. Hanging out one-on-one is great and necessary, but time spent with mutual friends is also great and possibly necessary imo. It changes things up and is less demanding, particularly if you're both introverts. If you have mutual friends with an INFP I'd recommend including them in the friendship. I also think changing the venue could be a good way to show you're interested in an actual friendship rather than a friendly-acquaintanceship. Invite them out to do something you think they'd be interested in. Maybe with a mutual friend. Or invite them to a movie/boardgame/whatever night. INFPs enjoy spontaneity. That said, INFPs can differ quite widely. It's possible he'd enjoy none of these things.

The key, as has been said here already, is low-key thick-skinned persistence. Just because he doesn't want to do x on y day doesn't mean he doesn't want to be friends. He may just not be in the mood that day, but on another day would love to. That said, it's probably hard to tell the difference between an INFP who doesn't want to be friends and one who does. Which I guess is where the forced-proximity works. It's much easier to befriend someone you see regularly than it is to befriend someone you have to make special efforts to see.

Probably not particularly helpful. If I think of anything else I'll add it.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Here's another question for INFP's especially E4s

How do you communicate that you are rejecting friendship? How is that distinguished from your introversion, shyness, and/or just irregular communication style?

I really just don't do this much. I tend to give people a chance because I don't categorize them immediately. I'm sort indifferent by default.
Someone has to be outright offensive to me, in which case I'll likely give rather obvious signs of disgust. Since these people are often the most thick-skinned & oblivious, then it tends to roll off their back. In short, they don't care if I don't like them.

I think with age, I am more likely to give a more obviously positive response to invitations from people I feel some affinity with and to go out of my way to be around them (I'll put my "moods" aside). The thing is, it may not be obvious outside of the context of "me", as in, if they don't know me that well, then they wouldn't know this is my version of enthusiasm & being sociable.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I think I had a friendship fail, but oh well. I feel like that often, but tend to not be offended, so I'm just available when and if it changes. I just always try to recalibrate to other people and whatever their wants and needs are.

I'm socially a little depressed right now for various reasons, but probably don't have much objective reason to be. It's probably just a temperament thing.

 

[Thursday]

Here's another question for INFP's especially E4s

How do you communicate that you are rejecting friendship? How is that distinguished from your introversion, shyness, and/or just irregular communication style?

By not bringing it up. If its important to me that I get to know you in that way, I'll bring up things like places to go and things I like so that if you react in an interested way to those things, I'll ask you. If I only bring up impersonal things, its because I see things as impersonal between us.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

By not bringing it up. If its important to me that I get to know you in that way, I'll bring up things like places to go and things I like so that if you react in an interested way to those things, I'll ask you. If I only bring up impersonal things, its because I see things as impersonal between us.

I had a long-term attempt at a friendship with a fellow INFP musicians, and it took us like six months to get together to have coffee, which was okay, but then she would sometimes snub me at work meetings. I was quiet, depressed, and withdrawn at one and she initiated some interaction. I think she actually got offended a couple of times when I sent out a business related email to her without personalizing it. I think there was just a lot of miscommunication or something. This went on for years and is actually still happening, although I haven't seen her in quite a while. I ended up getting hurt enough times that I just feel comfortably distant from her, but I don't begrudge her for not feeling a connection with me.

People are just really complicated, but for some reason I find attempts at initiating INFP friendships the most difficult, even though my mother and sister are Fi-doms and I get along quite well with both. My sister was my best friend throughout all of childhood and adolescence and still now. I'm even used to INTP distance which is sometimes famous within families, so I should be well trained for this.

 

[Thursday]

I had a long-term attempt at a friendship with a fellow INFP musicians, and it took us like six months to get together to have coffee, which was okay, but then she would sometimes snub me at work meetings. I was quiet, depressed, and withdrawn at one and she initiated some interaction. I think she actually got offended a couple of times when I sent out a business related email to her without personalizing it. I think there was just a lot of miscommunication or something. This went on for years and is actually still happening, although I haven't seen her in quite a while. I ended up getting hurt enough times that I just feel comfortably distant from her, but I don't begrudge her for not feeling a connection with me.

People are just really complicated, but for some reason I find attempts at initiating INFP friendships the most difficult, even though my mother and sister are Fi-doms and I get along quite well with both. My sister was my best friend throughout all of childhood and adolescence and still now. I'm even used to INTP distance which is sometimes famous within families, so I should be well trained for this.

Although I'm not the "take offense to everything" type, I have rightfully earned labels such as "cold, difficult, too independent." Its been said that getting anything out of me is like pulling teeth, but worse. It sounds like your co-worker is really sensitive and needs an astronomy class to teach her the world doesn't revolve around her.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I had a long-term attempt at a friendship with a fellow INFP musicians, and it took us like six months to get together to have coffee, which was okay, but then she would sometimes snub me at work meetings. I was quiet, depressed, and withdrawn at one and she initiated some interaction. I think she actually got offended a couple of times when I sent out a business related email to her without personalizing it. I think there was just a lot of miscommunication or something. This went on for years and is actually still happening, although I haven't seen her in quite a while. I ended up getting hurt enough times that I just feel comfortably distant from her, but I don't begrudge her for not feeling a connection with me.

People are just really complicated, but for some reason I find attempts at initiating INFP friendships the most difficult, even though my mother and sister are Fi-doms and I get along quite well with both. My sister was my best friend throughout all of childhood and adolescence and still now. I'm even used to INTP distance which is sometimes famous within families, so I should be well trained for this.

This sounds like the kind of stuff people project onto me. I get accused of snubbing and being offended when I'm just not even aware. I didn't say hi to you because I literally did not see you. I didn't suddenly get quiet cuz you pissed me off - my own thoughts just became more interesting than the blah blah blahs around me. People start tip-toeing around stuff that has not even registered on my radar.

Jung noted that the Fi-dom's indifference to external things amounts to a devaluing of them (when they are not touching on any ideal, good or bad, and thus failing to arouse any feeling), and this can be read as some negative feeling toward the people/objects specifically. What it is really is is a devaluing of outer things in relation to the inner world, at that moment. It is not a specific devaluing of any person/object then. In short - we're just not in the mood. But maturity & better social awareness can help us to not give into such moods (see below the quotes).

In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object.

Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation.

Although I'm not the "take offense to everything" type, I have rightfully earned labels such as "cold, difficult, too independent." Its been said that getting anything out of me is like pulling teeth, but worse. It sounds like your co-worker is really sensitive and needs an astronomy class to teach her the world doesn't revolve around her.

I agree with this up until the last sentence.... what helped me with awareness was realizing I was affecting others negatively. When I got feedback that people found me cold, snobby, and extremely hard to get to know, then I realized they actually valued my opinion, my company and my friendship. I had assumed I was so inconsequential that no one was noting my behavior at all, and so I was free to lapse into la la land whenever I wanted. I had assumed that people reacted to me as they did because they did not like me or want to be friends, not because they felt rejected by me. When I saw that I mattered to people, then I made efforts to be more consistent, more approachable, more expressive of positive feeling. It's still a struggle as I am so absent-minded by nature & am easily drained by a lot of overt expression. I find it hard to find the words which suit me & not sticking with stock phrases that don't feel genuine, etc.

In a sense, making the person realize they matter & that their behavior has impact may be more effective than giving some "you're not a special snowflake & the world doesn't revolve around you" speech. The average Fi-dom is not bursting at the seems with self-confidence, after all. Inferior Te tends to say, "Nobody likes you. Everybody hates you. Go eat worms".

 

[animenagai]

OK INFP's. Strictly hypothetically, how should a guy ask you out?

 

[Riva]

Making friends/bonding with Fi doms by inducing isn't easy because they probably don't form friendships/bond due to mutual benefits, interests etc. However you could try hanging out often with them often. (Or make them hang out with you.) This way when they spend considerable time with you they might feel the need to bond with you on your merits.

 

[animenagai]

OK, here's a more specific question: how do I flirt and get steady communication with an INFP without being smothering? As an ENFP, that's already something I'm bad at. I know that INFP's like their personal space.

 

[RDF]

Making friends/bonding with Fi doms by inducing isn't easy because they probably don't form friendships/bond due to mutual benefits, interests etc. However you could try hanging out often with them often. (Or make them hang out with you.) This way when they spend considerable time with you they might feel the need to bond with you on your merits.

Good point. Physical proximity is probably the best way to speed up the process of getting to know an INFP. If you're interacting with an INFP on a long-distance basis and emailing them, it's easy for the INFP to lump all non-essential email together as "spam" and ignore it, including your email to them. Much better to be a roommate of an INFP and dog them to go out with you for a pizza and beer. The INFP may refuse on the first couple occasions, but sooner or later their willpower will waver...

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Although I'm not the "take offense to everything" type, I have rightfully earned labels such as "cold, difficult, too independent." Its been said that getting anything out of me is like pulling teeth, but worse. It sounds like your co-worker is really sensitive and needs an astronomy class to teach her the world doesn't revolve around her.

...I agree with this up until the last sentence.... what helped me with awareness was realizing I was affecting others negatively. When I got feedback that people found me cold, snobby, and extremely hard to get to know, then I realized they actually valued my opinion, my company and my friendship. I had assumed I was so inconsequential that no one was noting my behavior at all, and so I was free to lapse into la la land whenever I wanted. I had assumed that people reacted to me as they did because they did not like me or want to be friends, not because they felt rejected by me. When I saw that I mattered to people, then I made efforts to be more consistent, more approachable, more expressive of positive feeling. It's still a struggle as I am so absent-minded by nature & am easily drained by a lot of overt expression. I find it hard to find the words which suit me & not sticking with stock phrases that don't feel genuine, etc.

In a sense, making the person realize they matter & that their behavior has impact may be more effective than giving some "you're not a special snowflake & the world doesn't revolve around you" speech. The average Fi-dom is not bursting at the seems with self-confidence, after all. Inferior Te tends to say, "Nobody likes you. Everybody hates you. Go eat worms".

fwiw, I don't think that particular friend is self-centered, so Thursday's last sentence doesn't resonate with me either, although I appreciate it as an attempt to make me feel less rejected. My impression is more that this particular individual has a complex intertwining of sensitivity and apathy. I just have a hard time figuring out which is which and I do feel personally devalued, but I don't think everyone has to value me just because I value them. People have an honest personal right to not want to connect to me. I've always been anxious that she felt we were in competition because musicians have an awful culture of behaving that way. I don't want to compete at all. I just happened to form an internal ideal of being good friends with her, possibly even sharing recitals with students, etc., and my internal concept just never mapped to reality, so I was disappointed.

The irony is that I also can be too distant and when younger was specifically accused of it, but would compensate by smiling at people. I'm too close and distant at the same time.

Edit: Socially I can relate to much of what you describe. I've been a bit more open as I get older and take greater risks just because I've experienced enough genuine rejection and survived that I've been pushed past the point of something.

Edit: I really hope I can figure this out because it applies to a few people, all of whom I value highly, but their behavior does feel like it contains some authentic rejection of me. I suppose it is possible that if they value me the rejection is pre-emptive. I just wonder if it could be just spaciness when it resonates so strongly of rejection. In both recent cases I had significant things in common, so I wasn't just a random person. With one we are the only two around our same age who are professionals on our specific instrument and we both value using music in therapeutic contexts. All of our goals are the same and aspects of personality as well, so it seems like it's meaningful. In the second we are both creative and unusual and had what I thought were possibly the best music conversations I've ever had, but now that INFP completely ignores me on FB. They like all the other band members new profile pics from our performance, but not mine. Both have hurt my feelings quite deeply, and it's just my rational mind that keeps taking risks, but it never changes in the first, longer case. Oh well.

 

[PeaceBaby]

They like all the other band members new profile pics from our performance, but not mine. Both have hurt my feelings quite deeply, and it's just my rational mind that keeps taking risks, but it never changes in the first, longer case. Oh well.

Your Average Facebook Post Only Reaches 12% Of Your Friends

In light of this, you should reevaluate whether she intended to 'snub' you - it's more probable that she did not see you change your profile picture at all.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Your Average Facebook Post Only Reaches 12% Of Your Friends

In light of this, you should reevaluate whether she intended to 'snub' you - it's more probable that she did not see you change your profile picture at all.

That's a good point, and I do try not to give too much focus on FB because it is different from irl.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I tend to keep myself very guarded. I make acquaintances of people quite often, but for me to really open up and start baring my soul, there has to be some deeper connection or they have to share something I'm really interested in. I also find it difficult to want to form bonds with people who share little in common with me to begin with. I simply don't have time for small talk about trivial day to day bullshit. If someone wants to discuss music, particularly the stuff I'm into, history, eastern religions and philosophy, alternate history and time travel, mystery science theater 3000, or any other number of things I care about, then I start to let my guard down and will find myself wanting to spend a lot more time around that person