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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] IXFPs are surprisingly capable of tremendous acts of evil

Ene

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No, I don't see it at all. All humans can have a darkside, but I don't see IXFPs as being capable of 'tremendous acts of evil'.

I do see it. In fact, as you say, ALL people are capable of it, but I'm thinking as [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] said,
I could see that in these terms. If Fi's gift is to really, deeply, genuinely know the interior of something... then its potential is to be able to know how best to destroy that.
Immediately, this brought to mind all of the "slow death" kinds of things, for example, the lady who meticulously poisons her aggressive spouse over an expanding course of time, the lady who puts bamboo shoots in her oppressor's food, the one who catches her aggressive spouse in his bed at night and as he sleeps, she ties him up, douses the bed in gasoline, lights a match and walks out the door. Then there's one who told me she would like to put a certain criminal into a vat of flesh eating snails and grin while she watched them slowly eat him. Her ESTP husband reprimanded her, telling her that such an act of punishment would make her more evil that the criminal she so destested. IxFPs are capable of harboring secret hate and resentment, of outwardly taking abuse while inwardly planning revenge. IxFPs, usually have to be provoked, but they are capable of acts of evil, the same as anyone else. I think Stephen King does a good job with them in his writing. For example, the character in The Secret Window gets revenge against his cheating wife, INFP style. I'm not saying that's his type, only that what he does is the kind of thing I hear my imbalance INFP friend talk about. She can devise a trillion ways to torture someone, but thankfully, she doesn't carry them out. Probably because she lacks the opportunity.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Sorry, all evil is committed by NTPs. Hitler, Bin Laden, Stalin.... total NTPS all of them. All of their followers were also NTPs.
 

highlander

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(This is the original source for all theories on cognitive functions, btw)

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm

To be fair, the Te profile is just as scary, in places - but the Te parts are more like being afraid of your dad. The Fi parts are more like being afraid of what's under your bed.

Good link.

The thing is they have inferior Te - the idea of which scares me.

I have observed these things mentioned in the link:


"It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence."

"This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more [p. 492] does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts."

"Although one may find a constant readiness for a peaceful and harmonious companionship, the unfamiliar object is shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responding warmth, but is met by a manner of apparent indifference or repelling coldness."

"In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object. But a stormy emotion will be brusquely rejected with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the subject from the side of the unconscious"

"Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation. "
 
G

Ginkgo

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inflatable_evil_unicorn_horn_for_cats_2.jpg
 

Tiltyred

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They call that Unseelie Fi over at Cognitive Types. :smile:
 

OrangeAppled

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Good link.

The thing is they have inferior Te - the idea of which scares me.

I have observed these things mentioned in the link:


"It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence."

"This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more [p. 492] does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts."

"Although one may find a constant readiness for a peaceful and harmonious companionship, the unfamiliar object is shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responding warmth, but is met by a manner of apparent indifference or repelling coldness."

"In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object. But a stormy emotion will be brusquely rejected with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the subject from the side of the unconscious"

"Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation. "


In what ways did you observe this in Fi-dom? Just curious about how you personally connect these statements to observable behaviors & attitudes.


I've certainly seen inferior Te & ugly Fi in myself. It wasn't EVIL, but not the stuff of cotton candy & rainbows either.
Most of the above deals with a cool, aloof demeanor that seems dismissive of the joy or pain others are expressing. It's a resistance to being affected, so as to keep the purity of your own feelings. This is important for maintaining integrity at times & being willing to go against the tide & take a stand for what is right, but other times, it just makes you look cold, or a downer, or self-absorped, etc.
 
E

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Hmm...I've had some pretty diabolical ideas of how to wreak havok on society and create chaos. Frankly, I'm surprised nobody has tried them before. But I don't have a desire to act on those ideas, nor any homicidal inclinations that I'm aware of. But if I were to snap, it would probably be targeted killings of people who have enraged me rather than random, spontaneous attacks on innocent people; which makes the aforementioned ideas useless.
 

King sns

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I read somewhere that IXFP’s are surprisingly capable of tremendous acts of evil - more so than any other type. However they tend to be incapable of bringing these realities to fruition. It's an Fi dom thing that is at the root of this.

Any truth to this? Thoughts/opinions?

I guess this could be true in a sense =.. if your value system ends up being on the jaded side technically you could justify any act based on that self created system however irrational. This could work on the acts of good and purity side of things as well...
 

highlander

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In what ways did you observe this in Fi-dom? Just curious about how you personally connect these statements to observable behaviors & attitudes.

Most of the above deals with a cool, aloof demeanor that seems dismissive of the joy or pain others are expressing. It's a resistance to being affected, so as to keep the purity of your own feelings. This is important for maintaining integrity at times & being willing to go against the tide & take a stand for what is right, but other times, it just makes you look cold, or a downer, or self-absorped, etc.

I'd rather not get into specifics but you hit the nail on the head with that bolded sentence. When you're "out", you cease to exist for the IXFP. The judgment has been made. It can be a bit shocking because others don't realize that side is there.
 

Tiltyred

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Sounds like INFJ doorslamming.
 

RaptorWizard

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INFPs are my functional opposite; they're all grounded and realistic with stuff, wanting to keep the proper principles and preserve stability, just like those boring old ISTJs! :rules:

ISTPs on the other hand have both Ti and Ni, the ultimate functions of supreme intellect! Se is also there to give our extreme visions a reality check, to take pieces from the external world and build them up into an integral construct! :einstein2:

If you want to be like God and become an ISTP, too bad. INFPs are farther away from the divine ISTP level than anyone..... hahahahahahahaha! :rotfl:
 

Tiltyred

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I'm in agonies of losing my faith entirely in MBTI. :cry:
 

PeaceBaby

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I'd rather not get into specifics but you hit the nail on the head with that bolded sentence. When you're "out", you cease to exist for the IXFP. The judgment has been made. It can be a bit shocking because others don't realize that side is there.

That is more of an ISFP thing though, imo. Ne seems to force me to leave the door open, even a crack.

As for the evil ... certainly I have this awareness of light and dark, the juxtaposition of such things, the integration of such things. Even my avatars reflect that theme with regularity. But I find myself kind of pinioned on your thread title, "IXFP's are surprisingly capable of tremendous acts of evil." First, by the word 'surprisingly'; second the phrase 'tremendous acts of evil'. I find myself not sure how to comment on this.

Are IXFP's human? Yes. Therefore, capable of being either as 'good' or 'bad', light or dark as anyone else. Naturally, there's a mix of positive and negative qualities in us too, just like everybody. What I do think is true of IXFP's is this awareness (even fear actually) that humans are seldom one or the other, exclusively. There's always this mix of grey ... these issues do not compose a black and white world to us. And we are painfully, acutely aware of this mix - we feel inside ourselves the good and the bad parts and how they can sometimes even compete with each other for expression, and how they interact, blend and separate. As a result of this awareness, I do think many Fi doms consciously choose a siding with the light, to ensure the balance biases to the good. Yet we realize that sometimes tapping into the painful, messy bits can lead to .. the good (for lack of a better word). So, very messy stuff indeed.

Why the word 'surprisingly'? Because it's logical Fi doms should want to 'be' good? That our ethical awareness should cause every Fi dom to choose ... something that expresses in a morally positive way?

And as to 'tremendous acts of evil'? What are we defining as evil? Do you see Fi dom types as being so wired to positive values that it's difficult to conceive of negative expression? For example, I could be righteously energized to expose the corruption of a company (and I probably would) - does the tearing down of that make it evil? If that company employed hundreds of people who now don't have work? Someone could think that an act of evil. Does that make it so?

So, help me out with evil. Not holding the door? Mass murder? Where are we on the spectrum? Do you see a spectrum?

I like the following (link to page this is from at bottom of indent):

Fi has two forms, because it is an ethical process and a rational process. All rational processes work via dividing/contrasting. This is the essential element of judgment: to discriminate/differentiate. Because of this, as explained in this thread, Fe has a polarity to it in how it manifests externally. Fi also has two sides in which something can land according to its ethical frame. However, Fi is not a proactive process so this contrast won't be visibly exerted, instead it will be internalized.

Unless the worldview function (Ni/Si) has deeply cemented some truth such as "all humans are evil by nature", Fi will still be capable of making decisions on both sides of the contrast: to consider some things/people/actions noble and others not so much. However, if the worldview process has at least ingrained something moderately close to that such as "most humans are selfish, and incapable of true love" then the sort of ethical calls it will make will continually lean toward the darker contrast. A perpetual state of this can cause a perpetual sorrow on the face. This is because Fi accidentally radiates an emotional aura according to how it judges things internally.

What I've called an "innocent" Fi in prior posts is the willingness of Fi to be unguarded. It is typically Te which is expressed as a safeguard for Fi. Because Fi itself is not a proactive process, yet it is an ethical judgment process, it will implement its ethical judgment via Te. Thus an Fi that is either afraid of the world or jaded against it will come off as almost entirely Te. But if this type is a high-Fi user, then the Te will not be able to fully conceal the "pained" sorrow that will also lie behind the hard shell of Te.

As I've posted elsewhere, an example of an unguarded/innocent/seelie Fi would be this young Evanna Lynch. Her footage starts at about 2:00.

FiNe Evanna Lynch Video Here

Notice at 2:11 how she shrivels back into herself, in a very giddy and bashful way. This is how Fi looks when it trusts the environment and people. Because Fi is a compass process (Ji) it does not lie to the user. It's stances are essentially their identity - just as I cannot fool my Ti when it sees a contradiction, even though the most I can do is ignore it for a while. This authenticity makes it so Fi cannot lie to itself about how it feels about an ethical stance/position. But unlike Ti, the stance Fi takes on a position also affects the user emotionally and in their countenance. A sullen/pained countenance is the result if it's judgments are chronically on the negative side of the judgment-divide.

An example of "unseelie" Fi, apart from Viggo, would be Kanye West:

FiSe Kanye West Video Here

This sullen/pained effect (unseelie) is more common when the user also has Ni/Se. And this is because the Ni/Se worldview is more stable, connected, and it is easier to maintain a perpetual opinion. Inversely, the levity and optimism that accompanies Ne alleviates this tendency to become sullen as Ne may open more positive possibilities/scenarios about other people, where Ni/Se wouldn't as easily. However, it really depends on the Fi's values, as an Fi may hold a value to be charitable regardless of the nature of those around it, etc.

- Fi Function Profile http://cognitivetype.com/profiles/fi.html

I recommend a watch of the videos too.

And that link to Fe, wow it's pretty good too.

But I digress. Read that, process, and get back to me. We can dig deeper. Where we need to dig is into the enneagram as well I think.
 

highlander

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That is more of an ISFP thing though, imo.

Yes well the example I was thinking of was an ISFP so that could be.

TDo you see Fi dom types as being so wired to positive values that it's difficult to conceive of negative expression? For example, I could be righteously energized to expose the corruption of a company (and I probably would) - does the tearing down of that make it evil? If that company employed hundreds of people who now don't have work? Someone could think that an act of evil. Does that make it so?

So, help me out with evil. Not holding the door? Mass murder? Where are we on the spectrum? Do you see a spectrum?

I guess I always thought of IXFPs as being the "wouldn't hurt a fly" types and the idea of that alongside of "tremendous evil", whatever that is, seemed very odd to conceive. I can think of one ISFP at work that led a bit of a crusade to push an ESTJ out of a role/position and get herself in that role. She won in the short term but lost in the long term. Was that evil? I think it was bad. It definitely upset me. I don't know how evil it was. I'm sure she was doing what she thought was right.
 

PeaceBaby

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Yes well the example I was thinking of was an ISFP so that could be.

Just to be clear, I am not saying INFP's don't do that, just that most of the time Ne forces me to look at a gajillion possibilities why someone may have acted as they did. Ergo, there is a loooonnnnng process to total 'out'.
 

Tiltyred

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Peacebaby, did you leave out the links to the videos?
 

Honor

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Hmm...I've had some pretty diabolical ideas of how to wreak havok on society and create chaos. Frankly, I'm surprised nobody has tried them before. But I don't have a desire to act on those ideas, nor any homicidal inclinations that I'm aware of. But if I were to snap, it would probably be targeted killings of people who have enraged me rather than random, spontaneous attacks on innocent people; which makes the aforementioned ideas useless.
This is the scariest post ever. Your avatar really enhances the effect.
 
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