[INFP] Im an INFP Male, and im always in the friend zone

[cafe]

I don't have a lot of dating experience either, but I'm guessing that when you meet a girl, if she seems like she might be someone you might consider a relationship with you should ask her out. Do not wait around until you know her better (and inadvertently wind up in the friend zone), plan on getting to know her via dating. Asking someone out on a date is not a marriage proposal, so if it turns out she's not what you're looking for, you can break it off.

This will also keep you from wasting time on passively pursuing girls with whom you have no chance. When you passively pursue a girl waiting for her to make a move or show a sign, you can neuter yourself in her mind, if that makes sense. You want to avoid that.

I don't have a lot of experience with INFJ guys, but I've known a couple of INFP ladies men, so I know it can be done. You just need technique, I think.

 

[Little Linguist]

Right, well I am not an expert because I have not been in a lot of relationships (YES, that is true, although I am an ENFP ). In addition, I come from a different country with a different culture AND I have a different type. I'm also not a guy. So consider that when reading, please.

However, I am married and have some experience, so here are my two cents for the possibilities. You have to do a lot of reflection to see if anything applies or if I am just saying crap.

1. Maybe the women aren't ready. Are you in different stages of life? Have they just broken up with people? Are they mature enough? Are you "looking" in the right places? Or do they have totally different interests and views on life? (By the way, you shouldn't LOOK at all).

2. Maybe you aren't ready. You think you are, but you really aren't. Perhaps you need to mature a bit more. (I don't mean that meanly - we all need to grow and mature). Perhaps you are trying too hard - that turns off folks immediately (S sees it on some level; N feels/intuits it on some level). Are you honest about your intentions (with yourself and her)?

3. Perhaps you are unconsciously choosing people who will reject you. Low self-esteem (You do not have the self-confidence to be straight forward about your intentions and wishes; or you do not KNOW what you want)? Not really ready?

4. There is a larger scheme of things: perhaps you somehow know and intuit that now is NOT the time. Perhaps fate has something BETTER in store for you. I usually always realize that everything happens with perfect timing. It is HARD at the time, but I later realize that if these things had not happened as they did, things would have turned out much differently - for the worse. (e.g. You decide to date Ms Dumbass Crazy Fart, and realize Ms Dream Girl walks by but you cannot act. If you are single, you can.)

So be patient. He who seeks does not find. When you are in tune with yourself, content and pleased with life, the right person usually comes along for you at just the right moment. However, you also have to be at a stage in your life when you can realize it, ACCEPT it, and DO something (R-A-D principle).

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Talk less. Wink more. But not too much. Inscrutable is where you want to live. Inscrutable yet confident. Be the blank screen for them to project desirability onto.

 

[skoko]

i often get a sense of shallowness when a girl of average looks hits on me....like if i dont really know her, shes only going by my looks...(when shes attractive i cant help but at least entertain the thought! how horribly SJ of me lol) ... second, if im not phsyically attracted to them, i will have no problem flirting with them, having fun etc....im not an asshole...but i just wont feel right about it.

I have had similar issues in the past, i'm a little older and worked through some of these issues.

If you are not attracted to them you have no problem flirting etc. But if you are attracted you act differentlly. If you could act the same as you do around females you are not attracted to, would it be different? Why can't you act the same? The answer is CONFIDENCE. When you are attracted to a girl, you are probably telling yourself at some level that you are not worthy of them, something is wrong with you, or other self-defeating thoughts.

You must deny these thoughts, and replace them with more positive ones. (like a little personal pep-talk)

I know it's easier said than done, but if you can act the same way around girls you are attracted to as ones you are not attracted to you will not find youself in the FZ so often.

 

[Venom]

If you are not attracted to them you have no problem flirting etc. But if you are attracted you act differentlly. If you could act the same as you do around females you are not attracted to, would it be different? Why can't you act the same? The answer is CONFIDENCE. When you are attracted to a girl, you are probably telling yourself at some level that you are not worthy of them, something is wrong with you, or other self-defeating thoughts.

i just, ugh....ive heard this confidence issue a million times. and its like, if you have to tell yourself to have it, aren't you kinda already screwed? i just have trouble taking this insights and actually applying them. they all seem to make so much sense, and then fail in application.

every time i try to rewrite my inner code to confidence issues, i go about it the wrong way. i just try to copy ESTP and it obviously fails. The proper way i guess would be to try rewrite the INFP code to be more comfortable with the INFP....but i just have a hard time accepting that an INFP is going to be attractive to any non-dominant female (read NTJ lol)

thanks for taking the time to write though

 

[Tallulah]

Talk less. Wink more. But not too much. Inscrutable is where you want to live. Inscrutable yet confident. Be the blank screen for them to project desirability onto.

This might work for some, but not for all. I'm not a fan of winkers. They're trying to make me think they've got a secret. It feels fake, and I'm not buying it. And frankly, I like a guy that projects something, rather than being a blank screen. I want to know what he's about, rather than him just mirroring back to me.

 

[Venom]

Right, well I am not an expert because I have not been in a lot of relationships (YES, that is true, although I am an ENFP ).

well being an ENFP, you probably had lots of suitors and didnt even know it l

1. Maybe the women aren't ready. Are you in different stages of life? Have they just broken up with people? Are they mature enough? Are you "looking" in the right places? Or do they have totally different interests and views on life? (By the way, you shouldn't LOOK at all).

2. Maybe you aren't ready. You think you are, but you really aren't. Perhaps you need to mature a bit more. (I don't mean that meanly - we all need to grow and mature). Perhaps you are trying too hard - that turns off folks immediately (S sees it on some level; N feels/intuits it on some level). Are you honest about your intentions (with yourself and her)?

see in my own mind, i just assumed all forms of trying too hard could be avoided by avoiding indication of interest (texting her, calling her, innuendo, asking her out, excessive flirting, flowers, letters, gifts etc) ....but i guess im learning that trying to hard can still happen, even when you never even ask lol

body language i guess....

last year (august through may) i eventaully came to the conclusion that im not ready and so i just stopped trying...but like for real....i became more introverted than avg introvert...when i went out, i just wouldnt even talk to girls unless they talked to me....i would just hang out with buddies..i stopped texting, facebooking, partying really too, etc...stopped trying to meet new girls...i just kinda said screw it...i just came to accept, alright fine ill be the N wierdo here and i dont care what the girls think (the particulars that we always see at every party), they dont like me anyways

and you know what....not looking really didnt seem to help at all....not a bit...
for a while i felt happier....but in the last few months ive come to see how ridiculous this is...who the IS ready that wasnt already BORN ready??? like what life changing moment is ever going to really change me?? so then back to the friend zone i went...and now here i am wondering why its not any different

3. Perhaps you are unconsciously choosing people who will reject you. Low self-esteem (You do not have the self-confidence to be straight forward about your intentions and wishes; or you do not KNOW what you want)? Not really ready?

ya captain chick, see seemed to think that im being a romantic masochist....that im avoiding the reality of having a relationship by actively pursuing people that i know will reject me...i might actaully believe her. but im not sure how to change this.

4. There is a larger scheme of things: perhaps you somehow know and intuit that now is NOT the time. Perhaps fate has something BETTER in store for you. I usually always realize that everything happens with perfect timing. It is HARD at the time, but I later realize that if these things had not happened as they did, things would have turned out much differently - for the worse. (e.g. You decide to date Ms Dumbass Crazy Fart, and realize Ms Dream Girl walks by but you cannot act. If you are single, you can.)

ya i hear ya bout not being ready...but like i said, what life changing moment is ever going to "make me" ready? im just confused bout the whole deal.


thanks for writing

 

[Venom]

This might work for some, but not for all. I'm not a fan of winkers. They're trying to make me think they've got a secret. It feels fake, and I'm not buying it. And frankly, I like a guy that projects something, rather than being a blank screen. I want to know what he's about, rather than him just mirroring back to me.

well and heres the sad truth...the ESTP's that do what he's talking about.....get a lot girls (not that i want to be a player)

mirroring has been pretty psychologically accepted as a way of beating "the system" (not that i want to beat the system)

 

[Tallulah]

well and heres the sad truth...the ESTP's that do what he's talking about.....get a lot girls (not that i want to be a player)

mirroring has been pretty psychologically accepted as a way of beating "the system" (not that i want to beat the system)

Yeah. I don't know if you want the girls who are gonna fall for that, though. And then you have to be yourself sometime. It sounds like you are looking for a girlfriend, not a one-nighter, right?

 

[Venom]

Yeah. I don't know if you want the girls who are gonna fall for that, though. And then you have to be yourself sometime. It sounds like you are looking for a girlfriend, not a one-nighter, right?

oh gosh no more one nighters.....any idiot can have a one nighter if hes willing to lower his standards enough and put on his drunked ESTP mask for ONE night.....

so ya i would like to avoid that thank you, been there done that.....

 

[GZA]

Well, you could make yourself dead sexy and irresistable. Go lift some weights or something

I'm in the midst of recovery myself. Hell, I'd even say I've completely recovered attitude wise but just need some experience. I had a horrible phase when I was like 13 where I was "the friend" to a few girls I was either insanely attracted to/in love with. I'll be 17 in three weeks, just to give you an idea of my age and stuff. I now make sure I only become friends with girls I am not attracted to. I think just in general I've improved my confidence and I think my personality has grown, and I'm understanding it a lot better, too. I no longer go to sleep thinking woe-is-me-and-my-lonliness quite like I did back then (not that I still don't have episodes now and then ).

How I try to avoid the friendzone is by not neccesarily being friendly. What I mean is, be friendly, but not like "hey, we should hang out some time" "i love you" or "your my best friend" friendly. Be nice, but don't be afriad to tease her a bit, too, and don't treat her like she is the queen of earth because she is hot. Hell, do the opposite, tease her a bit jokingly so she knows you don't think of her as the end all be all of everything. I think that was the thing I screwed up when I was younger. It's actually funny, and sad, how many good opportunities I had when I was younger that I never knew about but now realize I missed out on because once they got to know me a bit I was friendzoned. Also avoid the word friend being associated between the two of you. I never refer to a girl I'm attracted to as my friend, just to avoid brand association .

I've found that just general stuff you should do in any conversation is helpful, like having good eye contact and body language (i.e. some smiling, facing the person, ect) make conversations a bit more fun and less anxious.

Do you have really great hobbies you love? I think this has helped me a lot. I don't care if girls like me or not that much these days, because I'm not exactly looking to get married anytime soon, and even if I do wish I had a girlfriend or a FwB or something, I don't mind because I still have ways to occupy my time just as well.

I still have some work to do, but at least I now have some prospects to think about. Rather than getting friendzoned, girls actually like me now and flirt a bit (or at least I notice it more when it actually happens). I still need to actually get some experience, and I'm afraid I may be somewhat avoidant of intamacy, but I havn't been friendzoned by anyone I was attracted to for almost two years now, and thats what counts.

 

[Venom]

Well, you could make yourself dead sexy and irresistable. Go lift some weights or something

Do you have really great hobbies you love? I think this has helped me a lot. I don't care if girls like me or not that much these days, because I'm not exactly looking to get married anytime soon, and even if I do wish I had a girlfriend or a FwB or something, I don't mind because I still have ways to occupy my time just as well.

my hobby IS lifting weights! seriously....im obsessed with eating right and getting bigger stronger leaner... in about the last 1.5 years i went from 160lbs 11%body fat to 200lbs 15% bf, now to 190lbs 12% bodyfat...

How I try to avoid the friendzone is by not neccesarily being friendly. What I mean is, be friendly, but not like "hey, we should hang out some time" "i love you" or "your my best friend" friendly. Be nice, but don't be afriad to tease her a bit, too, and don't treat her like she is the queen of earth because she is hot. Hell, do the opposite, tease her a bit jokingly so she knows you don't think of her as the end all be all of everything.

im all for flirting (and i just have no problem doing it with girls im not actaully interested in)...but the teasing thing...i just end up doing it wrong around girls i like, , so kinda now just try to be funny...which gets laughs and they can get animated....but i can definatly say its not the same as straight up flirting

I've found that just general stuff you should do in any conversation is helpful, like having good eye contact and body language (i.e. some smiling, facing the person, ect) make conversations a bit more fun and less anxious.

this is probably the stuff i subconsciously do different when around diff girls (like as in, i like, i dont life)

thanks for the post. your younger than me...but i mean, hey, its the same problem!

 

[Endolori]

hmm. I'm just shooting my mouth off here so if you think it's ridiculous then you can ignore it.

have you tried befriending a friend of hers, and then let slip some cues that you like her? girls tend to gossip a lot and I gather word will get round to her eventually. Then if she responds to you with some cues or even better, come straight out to reciprocate, then you probably can respond better.

From what I've experienced, (which isn't a lot btw ) I tend to be a bit shy and awkward around people I like because I idealize them to a degree where I think I'm unworthy of them. (like what cc said) However if I can see a bit of human weakness the idealized image disappears and I can act like myself again. Perhaps you could work at destroying the perfect image you have of her (a hiatus might help you gain a different perspective) then you can act like yourself again? (and flirt like you can)

I know I don't really make sense here. but well, just my 2 cents.

 

[Venom]

hmm. I'm just shooting my mouth off here so if you think it's ridiculous then you can ignore it.

have you tried befriending a friend of hers, and then let slip some cues that you like her? girls tend to gossip a lot and I gather word will get round to her eventually. Then if she responds to you with some cues or even better, come straight out to reciprocate, then you probably can respond better.

From what I've experienced, (which isn't a lot btw ) I tend to be a bit shy and awkward around people I like because I idealize them to a degree where I think I'm unworthy of them. (like what cc said) However if I can see a bit of human weakness the idealized image disappears and I can act like myself again. Perhaps you could work at destroying the perfect image you have of her (a hiatus might help you gain a different perspective) then you can act like yourself again? (and flirt like you can)

I know I don't really make sense here. but well, just my 2 cents.

theres no test one must pass to give advice :lol: .....dont be so shy about helping out!

destroying their perfect image seems like an ok temporary fix...but as an INFP, im not sure how id feel about tearing down someone else, even if its only going on in my silent head....




this is what im secretly worried about:

im going to sit here reading all this advice brooding about all of this...then suddenly si/te will come to bail me out as i get pissed and then i WILL have the energy to fake it (XSTX) for a week or two....which doesnt solve anything, because eventually that will fade....

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Yeah. I don't know if you want the girls who are gonna fall for that, though.

Nonsense. The smarter (and/or more idealistic) the girl the quicker she'll fall for it. If he does it right and is somewhat good-looking. It's only once they get older and have made that mistake a few times that it stops working on the good ones. Usually. Sometimes.

And then you have to be yourself sometime. It sounds like you are looking for a girlfriend, not a one-nighter, right?

Oh, you're looking for Disney? Well...I'm afraid I can't help you there. Um. Make a lot of money?

 

[Endolori]

destroying their perfect image seems like an ok temporary fix...but as an INFP, im not sure how id feel about tearing down someone else, even if its only going on in my silent head....

hmm what I actually meant is just make her human instead of like, a goddess or something. Not to demean her or to make her less than what she is. Was just thinking that perhaps if you could view her as a human, with mistakes and failings, then you could be more sure of yourself and be more confident.

At least, that's the way it works for me.

 

[CzeCze]

Dude, before I even read your post, just by reading your title my response was :

"INFP -- you are the quintessential Nice Guy."

I would recommend perusing AskMen.com and other 'dude' websites to read up on advice.

One big, BIG thing about how NOT to be friend zoned:

1) Make your intentions clear and act accordingly.

The intentions and thoughts you have for someone you are carnally or romantically interested in IS different from someone you just want to be friends with. If, as a Nice Guy you swear they are the same, because love stars with friendship and you just want to 'get to know' someone better, then that's your problem. Game over.

You have to get on track as early as possible onto a romantic/physical route or else you get put on the shelf as a friend. Otherwise it's really your own fault for not making it clear to the woman OR by making it unintentionally clear. Sometimes the shy nice guy act is endearing, but only if the woman had physical interest in you from the get go. You still only get a short window to make your move, otherwise, again, game over.

I'm not saying you have to be a dog to get lucky with the ladies, but you do have to learn how to see things from the woman's POV. Able bodied, healthy women under 30 (heck any age) get A LOT of attention from men. Most of it unwanted or unreturned. You're really swimming against the tide and if you want a better shot with dating, again, make your intentions clear and act accordingly.

Hope this helps my XNFP brother!

And I love dishing out solicited advice so let me know what you think.

 

[Brutus01]

gah i live in the friendzone...im just the nice funny guy...nothing more...sigh

 

[JivinJeffJones]

gah i live in the friendzone...im just the nice funny guy...nothing more...sigh

Never fear. Chances are several women have you pegged as possible marriage material (once they've had their "fun").

 

[istpunk]

I think it's a problem because society expects males to act typically as a Thinker while females as a Feeler. So people assume you're gay or effeminate when you're just feely. I have no problem with NFs but SF males I do. They tend to see me as someone they're better than or have to prove more over for some reason. Yes ESFJs and ISFJs males got some beef with me. I do nothing and suddenly they act aggressive and macho and I'm looking at them weird.

I know an INFP male, people think he's dumb or like a kid. I treat him as I treat everyone straight up. Since I naturally make people get in trouble, I always dare him to get into trouble which he usually does and he enjoys it.

I think you feely boys would do better with those thinker girls. especially those mind control types like estjs or estps.