[MBTI General] Finding true meaning…

[Infinite Bubble]

[MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION], unfortunately there is probably no true meaning to life. But imagine how awfully limited it would be if that were the case? Is it really worth it, to be tied down in such a manner? It is like when people would like immortality; the fantasy would be much more appealing than the reality.

There are two types of people - those that are able to live life on the very image that it presents itself as and nothing more. The other type looks underneath the scaffolding at some point or another to inevitably find out that it is seemingly being held up by void. No doubt that these people are prone to overanalysed and anxiety.

This second type often go one way or the other in life - to crumble and live in the meaningless existence that their minds have foreseen it to be. The second way is to live a fullfling and personally significant life. Thankfully we all have individual brains to think for ourselves and create our own reality. That being said, the simple answer is work.

When I say work, I'm not referring to menial labour - that is a one way trip to insanity for such people - what I mean is, following your passion. Don't let it just be a hobby; let it encompass you, become one with it. Being busy is the answer - stagnation is being dead when you are alive - and nothing is better than being busy, working on a passion. It becomes your meaning, and if you truly let it envelope you, you'll find that your worries just float away.

And with whatever it is, set goals for yourself and aim high. Don't settle for averageness. You can, if you want to, impact the world in a significant way. The proof of this possibility is there presence of many influential people that have come and contributed their work. Why not be one of those people?

I read that you enjoy writing. Well, there's your answer - that's the meaning you can apply to yourself. The contribution that you can give yourself and the world. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have anything as backup - that is always a must - but just don't let the writing, or whatever it is, take a back seat. Don't ever give it up; it needs to be cultivated.

A great shame is that many people do not ever find a passion, a deep one that is; sure there are hobbies, or some career path they had to choose - but nothing to such an extent that they become their field. People who succeed have two things; a passion to continue cultivating, ad the ability to fearlessly set high goals for themselves. Of course, many people simply do not care about such things - a family and a secure job are usually enough - and they're perfectly okay with that. They're the lucky ones really. If you are one of these people, then that is a very easy task to fulfil. I find though that these people are typically the first class that I mentioned, rather than the second.

I do think that trying to think objectively does nothing but create negative experiences. There's no point in this even, as we can never percieve full objectivity anyway (I admit to trying to do so regardless, and it never leads to anything satisfying or absolute). But preoccupying yourself with what you enjoy the best is the answer. Keep at that and it will simply not be capable of doing anything else but continuing to grow.

 

[Avocado]

[MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION], unfortunately there is probably no true meaning to life. But imagine how awfully limited it would be if that were the case? Is it really worth it, to be tied down in such a manner? It is like when people would like immortality; the fantasy would be much more appealing than the reality.

There are two types of people - those that are able to live life on the very image that it presents itself as and nothing more. The other type looks underneath the scaffolding at some point or another to inevitably find out that it is seemingly being held up by void. No doubt that these people are prone to overanalysed and anxiety.

This second type often go one way or the other in life - to crumble and live in the meaningless existence that their minds have foreseen it to be. The second way is to live a fullfling and personally significant life. Thankfully we all have individual brains to think for ourselves and create our own reality. That being said, the simple answer is work.

When I say work, I'm not referring to menial labour - that is a one way trip to insanity for such people - what I mean is, following your passion. Don't let it just be a hobby; let it encompass you, become one with it. Being busy is the answer - stagnation is being dead when you are alive - and nothing is better than being busy, working on a passion. It becomes your meaning, and if you truly let it envelope you, you'll find that your worries just float away.

And with whatever it is, set goals for yourself and aim high. Don't settle for averageness. You can, if you want to, impact the world in a significant way. The proof of this possibility is there presence of many influential people that have come and contributed their work. Why not be one of those people?

I read that you enjoy writing. Well, there's your answer - that's the meaning you can apply to yourself. The contribution that you can give yourself and the world. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have anything as backup - that is always a must - but just don't let the writing, or whatever it is, take a back seat. Don't ever give it up; it needs to be cultivated.

A great shame is that many people do not ever find a passion, a deep one that is; sure there are hobbies, or some career path they had to choose - but nothing to such an extent that they become their field. People who succeed have two things; a passion to continue cultivating, ad the ability to fearlessly set high goals for themselves. Of course, many people simply do not care about such things - a family and a secure job are usually enough - and they're perfectly okay with that. They're the lucky ones really. If you are one of these people, then that is a very easy task to fulfil. I find though that these people are typically the first class that I mentioned, rather than the second.

I do think that trying to think objectively does nothing but create negative experiences. There's no point in this even, as we can never percieve full objectivity anyway (I admit to trying to do so regardless, and it never leads to anything satisfying or absolute). But preoccupying yourself with what you enjoy the best is the answer. Keep at that and it will simply not be capable of doing anything else but continuing to grow.

This isn't quite what I was looking for, but it's close enough...
I will become a prolific writer in the tradition of Bradbury or King...
...And an artist...

A family is definitely in, too...

Father, artist, and legend...

 

[Honor]

I do think that trying to think objectively does nothing but create negative experiences. There's no point in this even, as we can never percieve full objectivity anyway (I admit to trying to do so regardless, and it never leads to anything satisfying or absolute). But preoccupying yourself with what you enjoy the best is the answer. Keep at that and it will simply not be capable of doing anything else but continuing to grow.

Yes! This.

 

[Avocado]

Yes! This.

I have the same issues with morality…
Right and Wrong do not exist, I've found, but rather are created by society. Different societies value different things, and as such…ethics are purely subjective…

However, I believe that increasing net happiness in a society could be considered "right," and decreasing net happiness could be considered "wrong."

 

[Society]

just for clarity, can someone give a counter example for a life with true meaning? let's say we had a fictional universe where our life had a true meaning... what would that entail?

would having a creator and knowing he had a purpose for us count as a true meaning? would knowing the universe will end and we are all part of the endeavor to stop it from doing so what exactly counts as true meaning?

 

[Ene]

King Solomon once asked the same essential questions. He wrote an entire book on it called Ecclesiastes. I recommend reading it with an open mind, casting away preconceived notions.

 

[JAVO]

Perhaps the answer is not to be found, except within the quest itself?

 

[alcea rosea]

Fellow ENFP, hang on there! It'll get better!

 

[Avocado]

just for clarity, can someone give a counter example for a life with true meaning? let's say we had a fictional universe where our life had a true meaning... what would that entail?

would having a creator and knowing he had a purpose for us count as a true meaning? would knowing the universe will end and we are all part of the endeavor to stop it from doing so what exactly counts as true meaning?

I can't give a satisfactory answer, at least for myself, as to what that would be like. I'd imagine it would be an honor to work towards keeping the universe pristine and good-aligned…

 

[skylights]

I think I mentioned this - I was really down for a while after graduating college. I drowned in guilt and shame, grew numb, stopped caring, and eventually realized that since I was unwilling to consider offing myself, I might as well do something useful for someone else.

I decided that I'd try to please my parents, so I threw myself into job applications, got a part-time position, started making an effort because I had an obligation... and then I met a guy and we started dating and spent months in giddy infatuation... then I was promoted to full-time... then I got into a conflict with a pig-headed manager and worked my tail off to prove myself against her... she eventually got demoted... then I was promoted to assistant manager... then I moved into my own place... and recently I've decided my future career path, dropped to part-time, and gone back to school. I'm not back to 100% yet, but maybe 75%, maybe more. I've had a really good last two days and I'm getting there. Now I'm spending my energy on my relationship, my family, school, work, and trying to balance all of that. It's not always amazing of course but it feels meaningful because those are all things I really value. I feel like I'm back "in" the world instead of staring at it from outside.

Each time I stopped focusing as much on myself, it got easier. I don't mean this in terms of taking care of myself, but in terms of choosing an external goal and focusing on that. I feel like there's a really careful balance that has to be struck between taking care of yourself and prioritizing yourself, and getting sucked into the depressive world of nothing mattering but yourself. It's a really bizarre form of self-centeredness, one that simultaneously focuses on the self and puts down the self. And as a result, I think one potential antidote is to stop focusing on the self and to just go out in the world and do. To sort of, strangely, tell yourself that you're not going to listen to your negative judgments about yourself or your life for right now. Have you heard of vicious and virtuous cycles? The vicious depression cycle would be you judging that your life is meaningless, so you're more inclined to look for ways your life lacks meaning (thanks to confirmation bias), so you're more inclined to judge that your life is meaningless. Whereas the opposite virtuous cycle would be to judge that your life has meaning, so you're more inclined to look for ways your life has meaning, so you're more inclined to judge that your life has meaning. You just have to reverse the flow.

I didn't understand it then, but my parents told me that it was better to just go do something and not worry about whether it was an appealing thing or not. I remember this one day when I was still a part-timer and before I met my boyfriend when I was tying some bags or some really menial task and all of a sudden I realized that I was, completely inexplicably, content and joyful at that moment. I shouldn't have even liked the task if I wasn't depressey, but there the joy was. My dad's a psychiatrist and he's told me that they encourage people who are depressed to just keep doing the things they like, even if it doesn't seem enjoyable, because often what they find is that after doing it a number of times, the joy, inexplicably, starts to return. At least for me, I think a big part of it was getting out of my own head and not letting myself be so impacted by my negative opinion of my life.

I dunno, [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION], if any of that's helpful, but that's been my personal experience with having felt numb and useless and that my life was meaningless, and having been lucky enough to have parents and peers who guided me back on a path of caring and color and feeling meaning in my life again. I know that it's possible and I hope you just keep trying!

 

[Avocado]

I think I mentioned this - I was really down for a while after graduating college. I drowned in guilt and shame, grew numb, stopped caring, and eventually realized that since I was unwilling to consider offing myself, I might as well do something useful for someone else.

I decided that I'd try to please my parents, so I threw myself into job applications, got a part-time position, started making an effort because I had an obligation... and then I met a guy and we started dating and spent months in giddy infatuation... then I was promoted to full-time... then I got into a conflict with a pig-headed manager and worked my tail off to prove myself against her... she eventually got demoted... then I was promoted to assistant manager... then I moved into my own place... and recently I've decided my future career path, dropped to part-time, and gone back to school. I'm not back to 100% yet, but maybe 75%, maybe more. I've had a really good last two days and I'm getting there. Now I'm spending my energy on my relationship, my family, school, work, and trying to balance all of that. It's not always amazing of course but it feels meaningful because those are all things I really value. I feel like I'm back "in" the world instead of staring at it from outside.

Each time I stopped focusing as much on myself, it got easier. I don't mean this in terms of taking care of myself, but in terms of choosing an external goal and focusing on that. I feel like there's a really careful balance that has to be struck between taking care of yourself and prioritizing yourself, and getting sucked into the depressive world of nothing mattering but yourself. It's a really bizarre form of self-centeredness, one that simultaneously focuses on the self and puts down the self. And as a result, I think one potential antidote is to stop focusing on the self and to just go out in the world and do. To sort of, strangely, tell yourself that you're not going to listen to your negative judgments about yourself or your life for right now.

I didn't understand it then, but my parents told me that it was better to just go do something and not worry about whether it was an appealing thing or not. I remember this one day when I was still a part-timer and before I met my boyfriend when I was tying some bags or some really menial task and all of a sudden I realized that I was, completely inexplicably, content and joyful at that moment. I shouldn't have even liked the task if I wasn't depressey, but there the joy was. My dad's a psychiatrist and he's told me that they encourage people who are depressed to just keep doing the things they like, even if it doesn't seem enjoyable, because often what they find is that after doing it a number of times, the joy, inexplicably, starts to return. At least for me, I think a big part of it was getting out of my own head and not letting myself be so impacted by my negative opinion of my life.

I dunno, [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION], if any of that's helpful, but that's been my personal experience with having felt numb and useless and that my life was meaningless, and having been lucky enough to have parents and peers who guided me back on a path of caring and color and feeling meaning in my life again.

It is helpful...

I have parents that tell me I just don't care and will never do anything in life because I'm lazy...
Besides spacing out, which I admit is pretty unproductive, it seems like all I do is work, study, get on TypeC, eat, and sleep...

 

[skylights]

It is helpful...

I have parents that tell me I just don't care and will never do anything in life because I'm lazy...
Besides spacing out, which I admit is pretty unproductive, it seems like all I do is work, study, get on TypeC, eat, and sleep...

Working and studying are both significant and meaningful! They pave the way to open doors. You're still a kid, really, and as long as you're making progress towards college, you're on the way. I know it's hard to dismiss the opinions of your parents, but try not to let them impact you so much, and you know that you will do something and that you're already doing something. ExTJs as I'm sure you're more than aware can be a little blinded sometimes because they don't understand the way Ps work in spurts, as opposed to the constant Te output-churning. Keep your head held high and your path steady. College is fantastic and you'll be there soon.

The thing is... meaning isn't ever missing... you can either find it or create it. If you can't find in then you just have to create it. You have to decide what you want and go for it, or just throw yourself into something and see what your Fi discovers.

 

[Avocado]

Working and studying are both significant and meaningful! They pave the way to open doors. You're still a kid, really, and as long as you're making progress towards college, you're on the way. I know it's hard to dismiss the opinions of your parents, but try not to let them impact you so much, and you know that you will do something and that you're already doing something. ExTJs as I'm sure you're more than aware can be a little blinded sometimes because they don't understand the way Ps work in spurts, as opposed to the constant Te output-churning. Keep your head held high and your path steady. College is fantastic and you'll be there soon.

The thing is... meaning isn't ever missing... you can either find it or create it. If you can't find in then you just have to create it. You have to decide what you want and go for it, or just throw yourself into something and see what your Fi discovers.

There is this one out of state college I visited that just feels right...
My mother is all like "No, stay near me..."
I can only use the scholarship once, though...
It really feels like I am making one big choice I can't make wrong...

 

[skylights]

There is this one out of state college I visited that just feels right...
My mother is all like "No, stay near me..."
I can only use the scholarship once, though...
It really feels like I am making one big choice I can't make wrong...

It's not so much the destination, but the journey. You won't mess up as long as you're moving forward. Plus, it's pretty easy to transfer schools once you've gotten in.

But if it feels right for you, you've got to try to go for it, even if it's not your mom's favorite. It's your college experience, not hers. Fortunately, you are the one who writes the applications.

 

[Avocado]

It's not so much the destination, but the journey. You won't mess up as long as you're moving forward. Plus, it's pretty easy to transfer schools once you've gotten in.

But if it feels right for you, you've got to try to go for it, even if it's not your mom's favorite. It's your college experience, not hers. Fortunately, you are the one who writes the applications.

Alright!
I will humor her and try a nearer college, but I just have a gut feeling about that place...
I want to be far enough to truly experience myself, but near enough not to upset her...
I don't aim to upset anybody...

 

[skylights]

Alright!
I will humor her and try a nearer college, but I just have a gut feeling about that place...
I want to be far enough to truly experience myself, but near enough not to upset her...
I don't aim to upset anybody...

Yes! That balance is fantastic. I was 3 hours away from home and I thought it was perfect. It was far enough that I was independent but close enough that if there was an emergency (which there was, a few times), we could travel the distance quickly.

Also your mom might be a little pushy but she is your mom and wants what's best for you. If she's an STJ, you should probably be able to put together a great logical, fact-based argument for why that college would be better for you that would help sway her.

 

[Avocado]

Yes! That balance is fantastic. I was 3 hours away from home and I thought it was perfect. It was far enough that I was independent but close enough that if there was an emergency (which there was, a few times), we could travel the distance quickly.

Also your mom might be a little pushy but she is your mom and wants what's best for you. If she's an STJ, you should probably be able to put together a great logical, fact-based argument for why that college would be better for you that would help sway her.

There is this one college that is 1 hour away, that I wouldn't mind going to...and I think my mother might be an NTJ, because she has a little bit of a creative side to her and she gives off more of that vibe...

She is slightly more cluttered than my step-father, but she is still able to find everything and fits Te-dom in that she works at a steady pace...
I also noticed she picks up on these little cues at times I don't notice...but maybe that's just me...

 

[Avocado]

By the way, I was going through an emotional low point when this topic started, now I'm back to average...

 

[Haven]

Change is good, maybe you need some of it. If you've already bottomed out, then it can only get better from here.

My bro is 6w7. We both grew up in kind of a bad house, but i left when i turned 18 whereas he stayed home even though he is older than me. He's just a genuinely nice guy, but doesn't look out for himself though I wish he did. You'll find your own way, just trust yourself.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

[MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION] I can relate to what you are going throught. I am experiencing pretty much the same and the only thing I can say is... Don't try to find meaning outside of yourself, try to findi it inside of you. People give meaning to things around them, without people, there wouldn't be anyone with a need for meaning, so no meaning would exists. Only you can create your own meaning and only you can go your own path.