[ENFP] ENFPs, why won't you let me into your pants?

[PeaceBaby]

Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?

I'm an INFP web developer (yes I code, primarily in php) and even with that background I WOULD FIND THIS SO VERY BORING! ahhhhhhhh I would rather go watch TV.

Why?

I use the internet for a purpose, not as a purpose - the last thing I wanna do after sitting coding at the computer all day is TALK ABOUT CODING!

And you need to stop calling ENFP's airheads, omg, they can read your intellectual dismissal from 50 yards away and have dismissed you in turn.

Just sayin'

 

[Typhus]

Most INTPs I know treat ExFPs like airheads. Even if they like them, it's more like "you're a cute & entertaining airhead". Perhaps not true for the OP, but just my observation IRL. ENFPs generally don't like that treatment, and ESFPs only tolerate it if they think it gives them an edge (my ESFP sis says she likes to be "underestimated" as a kind of advantage over people).

I knew an ENFP who was obsessed with this mutual INTP friend of ours. He pretended not to like her when he kinda did, and most of his contemptuous attitude was towards her being kind of silly. Not in her humor, but just her general way. I think it amused him, but he was also annoyed at times by it. She pursued him relentlessly anyway, as infatuated ENFPs tend to do. Not sure how anyone could miss those signals...

Oh yeeeaaah, I like design & bright colors, and I'm totally down for a conversation on Kant. IDk why people think an interest in fashion or aesthetics means shallow or not intellectually inclined....

There is more to Ne than banter and silly games, you silly silly boy

Fine, lemme spell it out then. Instead of tearing them a new one for presenting you with a half-assed hypothesis when they discuss something with you, recognize it for the draft that it is, appreciate the fact that they wnat your input on it, and use that Ne of yours together with your Ti to fill the gaps and 'construct' something together, editing the first draft, plugging the holes and actually work together as a team. We dont present full hypotheses, we present ideas. Therefore they will *NEVER* be up to the standard you would be using before presenting your own personal hypotheses. This is also what you *like* about us...that we are spontaneous and bubbly and toss out the weirdest shit first

So don't punish us for it. Restrain that inner critic of yours and appreciate the invite to work on the project at brainstorming level, bouncing ideas off of each other. And yes..value that Fi input, if you can. We try to do the same with your foreign feeling Ti. I know Fi looks really like its build on air castles, but it most certainly has value and its own logic. So suspend your logical naysaying and watch it work its magic

Like others on this thread, I'm wondering why the SJs supposedly flock to him... Maybe they're looking for someone to fix? Or someone to dominate?

Edit: [MENTION=74]digesthisickness[/MENTION] might be right about this. I, for one, have an irritating tendency to be much more attracted to guys who already have girlfriends, because 1) I see their real personality and sense of humor right off the bat, and 2) they're much more confident. A lot of the behavior that guys put on in an attempt to get girls to like them, really turns me off. Especially since a lot of that behavior comes from an assumption that all girls want to be waited on, and all girls want guys to come across as being almost too cool for them (regardless of whether they are or not).

I think INTx = inconveniently deadpan. Even in person. So I can see via text being even worse.

(My INTJ friend and I have a recurring joke about her troll face being the same as her normal face. And neither of us is sure of whether the pros outweigh the cons, regarding that, or vice versa.)

I don't think it scares them, as much as it pisses them off.

Statements like this bug me... Maybe it would bug me less if you translated it into non-MBTI terms.

What is it about these "ENFP" girls that you find appealing, that supposedly no other girls have?

I didn't specify the number of SJ women who have expressed interest in me. A handful of SJs have, and one or two SP women. I think that's because SJs are overrepresented in the general population.

I'd prefer the attentions of ENFx women, preferably ENFP women, because I'm attracted to Extroverted Intuitives. I'm excitable, and playful and prefer a mate with whom I can think and play. I'm repelled by SJ tendencies toward rules, control, social role enforcement, and general failure of critical thinking. I'm an INTP but part of me is very ENFP, and that attracts me to ENFP women.

ENFPs are socially skilled, they're expressive in a way that draws me to them. In my experience with my ENFP friends, we tend to have a strong mindmate connection that I cannot express, but there are threads on this: ENFP and INTP Magnetic Pull?

But I'm not attracted to any and all ENFP women. They're not interchangeable. I have some F and I need someone with a bit of T in them so that we can understand each other.

I still don't get it. I do not get why you are attracted to a person when you label them as 'airheaded'. And I *still* haven't seen an appreciation for their strengths from any of the INTPs in here.

All youve said is that they are airheaded, gregarious, sexy *wink wink* and you want to remove their pants (and yeah, I get that that was to just add some spice to the posts, but still). Im sorry but...I'm not your fucking blow-up doll. Nor am I arm candy. And as was stated before in this thread.. I read people well, so I *will* know that that is all you want from me. There has been no mention of appreciation, respect, not even any evidence of even noticing what you actually *like* about us. About who we are. About what it truly is you value in us. And unless you can demonstrate that - something you apparently dont even think to tell a bunch of strangers- , that you actually understand who we are and value it, you aint going near those pants, Im sorry

If you go back to my previous posts, when I talk about INTPs, the *first* thing I did was talk about the qualities that I admire and find attractive in INTPs. Why I respect them, look up to them and enjoy their company. I do not even mention the fact that their social skills often need work, coz you know what? To me, that is something that I can work with and often actually find endearing, in a good way.

Other than 'I wanna bed them coz they're smexy', I have yet to see the same from you guys. On the contrary, you've expressed that you clearly do not understand ENFPs by sharing that you perceive them as air headed and incapable of discussing the topics *YOU* want to discuss. You've actualy *listed* the reasons as to why you are unlikely to respect their povs, the way they go about things or consider them your equals in a relationship.

And you expect to be let into our beds *WHY* exactly?

...Oh right, coz YOU feel like it.

My bad.



Edit:

Ps: you've just seen Fi-logic in action. The actions, reasoning and wishes expressed by the INTPs in this thread do not add up from an Fi logic pov, at least not with the data provided thus far. Too many gaps, too many inconsistencies and potentially too little awareness as to what constitutes a good mate for your needs in terms of a long-term relationship. So either you are bs-ing about being serious in wanting an enfp partner for a relationship (and you do really just wanna sleep with us and move on), or you still have a long way to go in figuring out what makes a relationship work. Whatever the reason, at this point and in my books, you're too big of a risk to invest in emotionally- at the very least until those questions are answered and the inconsistencies have been smoothed out.

That's a lot of hostility. My viewpoints have been misunderstood. I didn't say that all ENFPs are airheads. Someone mentioned that they give that perception, and I agreed the some do, and wondered why.

If that's Fi-logic, it just concluded that I'm an idiot who disrespects ENFPs as airheads, but still wants to get with them. Apparently, I also make no effort to understand them and just try to force them into my straitjackect definition of intelligence.

Perhaps you could ask me to clarify a point you didn't understand instead of attacking me?

I've answered your question above.

 

[Amargith]

I'd prefer the attentions of ENFx women, preferably ENFP women, because I'm attracted to Extroverted Intuitives. I'm excitable, and playful and prefer a mate with whom I can think and play. I'm repelled by SJ tendencies toward rules, control, social role enforcement, and general failure of critical thinking. I'm an INTP but part of me is very ENFP, and that attracts me to ENFP women.

ENFPs are socially skilled, they're expressive in a way that draws me to them. In my experience with my ENFP friends, we tend to have a strong mindmate connection that I cannot express, but there are threads on this: ENFP and INTP Magnetic Pull?

But I'm not attracted to any and all ENFP women. They're not interchangeable. I have some F and I need someone with a bit of T in them so that we can understand each other.



That's a lot of hostility. My viewpoints have been misunderstood. I didn't say that all ENFPs are airheads. Someone mentioned that they give that perception, and I agreed the some do, and wondered why.

If that's Fi-logic, it just concluded that I'm an idiot who disrespects ENFPs as airheads, but still wants to get with them. Apparently, I also make no effort to understand them and just try to force them into my straitjackect definition of intelligence.

Perhaps you could ask me to clarify a point you didn't understand instead of attacking me?

I've answered your question above.

Yes, you did. And that is already a lot more workable. You asked about Fi. I decided to show you how it works. You'll also notice that the rant is not addressed at you personally past the first sentence. It is addressed in general at INTPs who display the first indicator (red flags) of a pattern of disrespecting other peoples povs whether that includes you or not, which i cannot determine definitively yet due to lack of data. But the first indicator did create distrust on that.

The distrust caused by the (fi)logic gaps in the data you offered in your actions, your thoughts and your responses. Normally, I'd wait your out, till those gaps were filled in. I decided against it, as the situation you asked about asks for a split judgement on the part of the ENFP, usually. That is, evaluating a guy from one or a few interactions for a potential mate. You asked what it would take to get further with them. I just showed you what is likely to go through their head when you raise a red flag like that. Your perception of them being airheads and unable to contribute to your topics is likely to register as a really big red flag. And most won't take the time and energy to dig past that to see if that is truly how you perceive them, they'll just dismiss you based on the vibe you re giving them

If I were to meet you one on one, without any pressure, for instance in a social group I'd notice this about you and file it away. Then I'd observe you and potentially ask you questions at times that it seemed...normal to ask them in a conversation, in order to extract further information as to your actual perception of the world and see if I can make sense of why you think the way you do. Right now there are still several alternatives that I'm looking at, that I do not have an answer to yet. That is how I go about evaluating a potential mate. Especially one that gives me the distinct feeling that he looks down on me, for whatever reason. I will substantiate that hunch if possible and at the same time give you the benefit of the doubt if I can..but if Im forced to make a decision at that point, it will be to rule against you, based on the information I have so far. As much as I know Im highly likely to be wrong. If, like now, I am given the time to actually figure out what is behind my perception of yours, I'm much more likely to understand where you are coming from.

Considering your calm attitude despite this 'hostility', your drive to continue figuring this out, and your usage of the word 'seems' in several instances, I'd guess this thread is to gather data on a mission you wish to complete. You being INTP and a 5 substantiates this behavior. So, it is likely that you are aware that you need more information on how an ENFP sees the world, and it is also highly likely that once you have that information and expand your...awareness I guess, you are unlikely to continue to perceive them as airheads but actually appreciate them for how different they are from you, and find the reasons as to why it is that they of all people attract you. Some of this is already present in the above quote. And that is a reassuring thought

There are those, however, who seek out others without doing this type of research. Who just want to enjoy the way they feel when they are around those people, much like you would a pet. Who are unable to detach enough from their own pov to value another persons pov. And who dont bother to figure out what the other person is all about, as long as they keep giving them 'good' vibes.

They lack the awareness that that is not what a relationship is all about, and their disrespect of the other persons pov, of the other person's strengths beyond those 'good vibes' is quite toxic in a relationship. In INTPs, this often seems to manifest in their feeling superiority wrt intelligence and justification in their put-downs, especially when it is coupled with inexperience in relationships and the more social aspect of the world. And while they too are just on their journey to figure things out and not intentionally harmful, they can be highly unsuitable mates at that point in time

In short: I meant for you to see the inner workings of Fi (granted, at its most crude, gut-instinct level) while also pointing to a potential big problem for you in your ENFP hunting, as well as push your buttons to determine your intentions before I gave you any ammo to go hunt with.

I hope that clarifies my actions.

 

[Starry]

Perhaps they do feel threatened. The last one did I think. But not all ENFPs are alike. 7 wing ENFPs seem almost ESFP. They're not very attracted to intelligence. I've met many ENFPs but few were capable of analytical thought like INTPs. Perhaps its because they're not INTPs?

Perhaps you could ask me to clarify a point you didn't understand instead of...?

Asking you to clarify stuff doesn't appear to... Okay...I'll give it another shot.


Dear Typhus,

I'm seeking clarification on the above quote. Please provide that for me...and for all of us really.
Thank you in advance.

Sincerely, Starry

 

[wolfy]

It seems a frustrating route. Why don't you ask a prostitute to take the mbti?

Enfp like people puzzles, be a people puzzle. Enigmatic.
Being enigmatic is like being cool though, if you try, you can't. So I guess you are kind of screwed...

just not by an enfp.

 

[Typhus]

Asking you to clarify stuff doesn't appear to... Okay...I'll give it another shot.


Dear Typhus,

I'm seeking clarification on the above quote. Please provide that for me...and for all of us really.
Thank you in advance.

Sincerely, Starry

I didn't see this question. There were a lot of accusatory posts!

Don't take it personally because your a 7 wing. I have had 7 wing ENFP friends before, but I'll give one example. One friend loved to read about history and economics and other stuff but believed horoscopes to be valid scientific tools. In short, she was quite intelligent but believed in things that made no sense. As an INTP, I'd reject half the things she believed because they were objectively false. Despite her intelligence, she didn't take any rational path to knowledge.

Horoscopes are easy to test. Take a sample of one thousand people and sort their personalities by birth date and check for a pattern. This has been done and there are heat maps showing no correlation between birth date and personality. Predictions have also been tracked with no strong correlation with reality This evidence she would completely dismiss. This is a sample size of only one, but the few other 7s I knew were like this. Some 2/3(?) wing ENFPs I knew were also no good at thinking stuff through.

I really don't understand the reaction. INTPs are kind of social outcasts by nature. That's how a lot of us are. As thinking is not one of the top cognitive functions of ENFPs, wouldn't there be some ENFPs who are not intelligent or rational out there? Do you think I'm saying that all ENFPs are dumb?

 

[Starry]

I didn't see this question. There were a lot of accusatory posts!

Thank you so much Typhus for responding. Yah, if you've pissed off a small handful of ENFPs...give yourself a pat on the back because it is quite a feat! haha.

You have much to learn about MBTI, enneagram and the ENFP type grasshopper. And I'm willing to help.

But first, I must go smoke some crack make some coffee...and I will return (I honestly wasn't sure if you were going to respond so I was unprepared haha).

 

[Typhus]

Thank you so much Typhus for responding. Yah, if you've pissed off a small handful of ENFPs...give yourself a pat on the back because it is quite a feat! haha.

I have a talent for doing this is RL too and I have no idea why. I'm not trying to be offensive and I try to be receptive and open-minded.

ENFPs misinterpret what I say and drama follows. That's why I'm here.

 

[skylights]

^ Yeah... Fi/Ti can be a bitch...

If that's Fi-logic, it just concluded that I'm an idiot who disrespects ENFPs as airheads, but still wants to get with them. Apparently, I also make no effort to understand them and just try to force them into my straitjackect definition of intelligence.

If this is the way you feel about my post, too, it's a misunderstanding. I do agree with Amargith that I feel like through the thread there have been multiple references to negative interpretation of ENFPs, and not as much positive interpretation, and that is confusing to Fi - it's like sending mixed signals to us.

No one has concluded that you're an idiot, but Ne-Fi looks for implications that suggest values. So some phrases that can come off as offensive are: "They're not very attracted to intelligence" - it seems to imply that we don't value intelligence. "I've met many ENFPs but few were capable of analytical thought like INTPs" - seems to imply that we lack capacity in comparison to INTPs. "A conversation about Kant doesn't seem like its going to happen" - seems to imply that we aren't interested or capable of philosophical discussion.

I think that's the sort of Ti-Fi disconnect that occurs. Ti suggests reasons without considering value implication, while Fi looks at value implication before reason. An INTP puts reasonable, rational ideas out there, which are airtight logically, but doesn't tend to check for implied value meaning, an ENFP picks up on the potential implications first and foremost, the ENFP wonders why the INTP would say a mean thing like that, launches counterattack, and then the INTP wonders why the ENFP is being so hostile.

 

[Starry]

No one has concluded that you're an idiot, but Ne-Fi looks for implications that suggest values. So some phrases that can come off as offensive are: "They're not very attracted to intelligence" - it seems to imply that we don't value intelligence. "I've met many ENFPs but few were capable of analytical thought like INTPs" - seems to imply that we lack capacity in comparison to INTPs. "A conversation about Kant doesn't seem like its going to happen" - seems to imply that we aren't interested or capable of philosophical discussion.

I think that's the sort of Ti-Fi disconnect that occurs.

As you would imagine I agree wholeheartedly with you and the beautiful [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] but is this really a Ti-Fi disconnect? 'Cause I'm willing to wager that regardless of how your functions line up...most people are probably not going to be all that 'enchanted' by someone that is constantly giving off 'you are clearly of below average intelligence' and 'I'm arrogant' vibes. Perhaps some do find this kind of thing appealing...but for most of us...yah no.

I'm Ne>Ni>Fi>Ti... In other words, I don't have a problem with Ti. But I do have a problem with 'emotionally stunted intellectually arrogant' people.

 

[INTP]

I didn't see this question. There were a lot of accusatory posts!

Don't take it personally because your a 7 wing. I have had 7 wing ENFP friends before, but I'll give one example. One friend loved to read about history and economics and other stuff but believed horoscopes to be valid scientific tools. In short, she was quite intelligent but believed in things that made no sense. As an INTP, I'd reject half the things she believed because they were objectively false. Despite her intelligence, she didn't take any rational path to knowledge.

Horoscopes are easy to test. Take a sample of one thousand people and sort their personalities by birth date and check for a pattern. This has been done and there are heat maps showing no correlation between birth date and personality. Predictions have also been tracked with no strong correlation with reality This evidence she would completely dismiss. This is a sample size of only one, but the few other 7s I knew were like this. Some 2/3(?) wing ENFPs I knew were also no good at thinking stuff through.

I really don't understand the reaction. INTPs are kind of social outcasts by nature. That's how a lot of us are. As thinking is not one of the top cognitive functions of ENFPs, wouldn't there be some ENFPs who are not intelligent or rational out there? Do you think I'm saying that all ENFPs are dumb?

While horoscopes might be pseudoscience, there is something you might not have thought. You see there is an option that the time of birth effects the person in other ways. When a kid is the age where he first starts to understand the world a bit. Now think if that kid learns about the world when its the summer versus when its -20C cold outside and has to be padded up when going outside and its dark outside most the time. I know this might not effect many people as much as others, but im sure that some types of kids(not talking about MBTI type) will be heavily effected by this. Also, you need to keep in mind that astrology today isnt what it used to be, the current version has been altered quite a bit from what it used to be. So even tho the current model might not have enough correlation to be taken seriously scientifically(P .05), astrology might have some truth in it still. Who knows if stars in the sky effect us more than we believe and the shapes we perceive mostly unconsciously do affect us. Who knows? Only thing i can say for sure is that you cant disprove that.

This is what people are talking about when saying not to bash down ENFPs ideas and just tell that their view is retarded. I mean if you would respond to her interest on astrology(and other stuff) the same way as i answered to you, she would most likely respond to you differently.

edit. also one crucial aspect you need to be aware of is that this ENFP might had noticed subconsciously for example that many people who first started learning about the world during summer are different from those who first started learning in winter, but not be able to consciously get an reason for this, since it might be perceived through intuition. astrology might correlate with this intuition of hers and she starts to believe in astrology. if you just respond with "astrology is full of horse shit", that goes against her intuition, and as an Ne dom, she will have faith in her intuition. So a better way would be to find a reason for this intuition with something i explained above.

 

[Redbone]

As you would imagine I agree wholeheartedly with you and the beautiful [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] but is this really a Ti-Fi disconnect? 'Cause I'm willing to wager that regardless of how your functions line up...most people are probably not going to be all that 'enchanted' by someone that is constantly giving off 'you are clearly of below average intelligence' and 'I'm arrogant' vibes. Perhaps some do find this kind of thing appealing...but for most of us...yah no.

I'm Ne>Ni>Fi>Ti... In other words, I don't have a problem with Ti. But I do have a problem with 'emotionally stunted intellectually arrogant' people.

^Yeah...this!

The ENFPs have shown a lot of grace in answering these questions.

To the OP, I know you said why you like ENFP but from what I can see it doesn't really look like it. It looks more like, "You're so pretty, bouncy, fun, and not very bright. Not very intellectual. So how 'bout it?" Not even a pretty, bouncy woman just wants to be admired and wanted for her pretty bounciness. There's more than that to her. Way, way more.

If you admire someone who is intellectual and values you the things you do, why don't you just go out and get that person? I might be wrong but it sounds like you're complaining about ENFPs not being what you want them to be. Who wants to deal with that?

 

[Starry]

Don't take it personally because your a 7 wing. I have had 7 wing ENFP friends before, but I'll give one example. One friend loved to read about history and economics and other stuff but believed horoscopes to be valid scientific tools. In short, she was quite intelligent but believed in things that made no sense. As an INTP, I'd reject half the things she believed because they were objectively false. Despite her intelligence, she didn't take any rational path to knowledge.

Horoscopes are easy to test. Take a sample of one thousand people and sort their personalities by birth date and check for a pattern. This has been done and there are heat maps showing no correlation between birth date and personality. Predictions have also been tracked with no strong correlation with reality This evidence she would completely dismiss. This is a sample size of only one, but the few other 7s I knew were like this. Some 2/3(?) wing ENFPs I knew were also no good at thinking stuff through.

First, that would be 'Don't take it personally because you're a 7 wing.' (<--haha on this occasion I couldn't resist). Secondly, I'm not a 7 wing. I'm a 7 core. And lastly, if you like 'them ENFP ladies...yet feel the e7s aren't quite up to par as far as your intellectual capabilities and standards are concerned...then I've got some bad, bad news for you dude. Most ENFPs are e7. In fact, many enneagram professionals do not believe a different enneagram placement is even possible for an ENFP. In other words, they subscribe to the thought that if you are an ENFP you are either a 7w6 or a 7w8 and that's it...done, period. I personally do not believe in that theory...but still, I most definitely feel ENFPs like skylights and Amargith are extremely rare birds indeed (which is probably why they have come to this site and I'm so happy both of them are here).

I'm not convinced all the females you believed to be ENFP were actually ENFP...but I can tell you this. If they were ENFP...the chances they were e7s...specifically e7w6 are extremely high. <--And on top of all of that...e5s and e7s are connected via the enneagram and are often profoundly drawn to one another. So now...I'm heading down to Vegas to place my bets. Oh, and I've worked in science for a good portion of my life. ((I don't know shit about 'code' because I'd rather get a root canal I believe than learn about something like that. 'Coding', however, does not = intelligence or analytical reasoning abilities.)) And fwiw...I have read just as many professional journal articles with statistical evidence that seems to support the validity of astrology as I have articles with statistical data that renders it bunk. Come on INTP...if you are as bright as you claim you must know all about statistics and how politics can shape them.

And while we are on the subject...I would delve into some of the research they are currently doing on Dominant Intuition and intelligence... The social scientific research that has stemmed from research they have done and are currently doing on ADD/ADHD and (high) intelligence. My point, is... much of what you are labeling 'airheadedness' might not be all that 'airy' after all.

I really don't understand the reaction. INTPs are kind of social outcasts by nature. That's how a lot of us are. As thinking is not one of the top cognitive functions of ENFPs, wouldn't there be some ENFPs who are not intelligent or rational out there? Do you think I'm saying that all ENFPs are dumb?

 

[Animal]

LOL!

 

[wolfy]

Enfp are very helpful.

 

[skylights]

Most ENFPs are e7. In fact, many enneagram professionals do not believe a different enneagram placement is even possible for an ENFP. In other words, they subscribe to the thought that if you are an ENFP you are either a 7w6 or a 7w8 and that's it...done, period. I personally do not believe in that theory...but still, I most definitely feel ENFPs like skylights and Amargith are extremely rare birds indeed (which is probably why they have come to this site and I'm so happy both of them are here). [...] If they were ENFP...the chances they were e7s...specifically e7w6 are extremely high.

This is interesting, Starry. Thank you for the compliment for one , I am so glad you are here too! I've particularly learned a lot from seeing us both settle on our respective e-types because we are similar but different in important ways. But two, I haven't read about the idea of e7/ENFP mutual inclusion. I agree with you that e7 ENFPs (and ESFPs) are most common, certainly, though I was under the impression that ENFP 4s are fairly prevalent, too. The ENFPs I know IRL well enough to confidently type have either self-identified as or are highly suspected by me to be 7w6 (close friend), 4w3 (old friend), 7w6 (cousin), 7w6 (classmate), and 4w5 (close friend). I believe that I also know a single ENFP 3w2 who comes off like an ENFJ at first.

My point, is... much of what you are labeling 'airheadedness' might not be all that 'airy' after all.

Yes, definitely. I think we are often so "airheaded" because we are running so much conceptualization in our minds and neglect to connect with the world.

Enfp are very helpful.

Well thank you.

 

[Amargith]

Tl;dr tip: find yourself an NFJ instead, it will be easier on you.

@ The astrology thing.

I like to play around with astrology, tinker with it. I personally do not care that it may or may not be possible/true, whatever. It is a fun what-if scenario, it offers a ton of patterns about people that I can play with to my hearts content. Much like MBTI, enneagram and Socionics btw. I do not get into the nitty gritty of 'does this uphold the mathematical axiomas in the universe'. I like to play 'what if this were true...how would it show itself in the world, and would I be able to predict - based on these patterns - what would happen next'? And I'll test the shit out of a system playing with the patterns, determining its value to me based on that, instead of where it came from.

To consider me stupid for that and dismiss me out of hand will make me roll my eyes at you as you are ignoring my preference for yours. You re essentially telling me that your way of looking at the world (Ti) is the only one. And that is something *I* will dismiss a potential candidate mate for in a heart beat.

I do not expect you to believe in astrology, or even show an interest in it. I don't expect you to play with me or indulge in my little games. But I do expect you to chuck the disdain and condescension towards me for daring to engage in such activities. Pronto.

My own INTJ has trouble with this when I found paganism. I'd tell him all about this stuff coz..well thats what we do when we get excited about something. And I could see the struggle in his eyes. The burning criticism, the need to scream 'its all bogus!', while knowing that if he went all the way there, it would cost him dearly.

He does not get it either, and Im ok with that. Ive also stopped telling him about it coz frankly...I don't want to see that look in his eyes. He still does not understand it (and he has in fact the same attitude towards MBTI though he can see its use).

But he has come to understand that I work *very differently* from him yet somehow - in his eyes magically - come to the same conclusions and same results as he does, with his linear, logical path. In fact, it used to be his favorite game to have me predict a result or give a conclusion on something, and then backtrack *how* I got there, coz frankly, while he knew the result was correct (since it was the same result he had in mind - arrogant as always -), he could not deny there was something to my process. But when he backtracked it...all he could find was what he would dismiss as 'fluff'. And I'd just shrug, smile and skip along to the next project.

Nearly a decade later, he still sometimes has trouble figuring out how I got to a conclusion, though he has gotten a lot better. He still does not get my logic, but he knows the pattern I'll follow and what makes sense *to me* and somehow to the universe as well.

So when it comes to subjects that he cannot find a logical path to - since he knows we usually come to the same conclusion - he will suspend his disbelief and trust my gut if a result is needed. Otherwise he'll just eye me in a confused way and refrain from commenting for lack of measurable data

 

[Dudesowin]

Isn't Astrology just an attempt at a dynamic MBTI of social heredity? I always giggle at the fact I am Aquarius what is that like the God's Waterboy or something lol. I piss in your drink mofo! xD

 

[Starry]

This is interesting, Starry. Thank you for the compliment for one , I am so glad you are here too! I've particularly learned a lot from seeing us both settle on our respective e-types because we are similar but different in important ways. But two, I haven't read about the idea of e7/ENFP mutual inclusion. I agree with you that e7 ENFPs (and ESFPs) are most common, certainly, though I was under the impression that ENFP 4s are fairly prevalent, too. The ENFPs I know IRL well enough to confidently type have either self-identified as or are highly suspected by me to be 7w6 (close friend), 4w3 (old friend), 7w6 (cousin), 7w6 (classmate), and 4w5 (close friend). I believe that I also know a single ENFP 3w2 who comes off like an ENFJ at first.

Since I'm attempting to provide Typhus with a good, overall sense of the *pure genius*... which is truly the essense, if you will, of the ENFP e7... I should probably not try and explain this here haha!

 

[Starry]

Enfp are very helpful.

This is my favorite post in the whole thread.