[ENFP] ENFPs, why won't you let me into your pants?

[digesthisickness]

What's your point? We're not talking about SJs right now. His vibe with them is irrelevant.

I meant it less on a type level and more as a female-in-general observation. Most girls, regardless of type, can pick up on that vibe and aren't exactly dying to be the object of it.

So, my point was that it gave strength to the guess that part of the problem could be that he's giving off desperate vibes with ENFPs. Because if he's not interested in SJs he wouldn't be giving off such vibes and that could explain why they aren't "scared away".

 

[violet_crown]

She means to say that with SJs he is probably confident instead of 'desperate', making him more attractive to him, in comparison with enfps. Though Im not sure that that is truly the case. But it is one scenario.

I meant it less on a type level and more as a female-in-general observation. Most girls, regardless of type, can pick up on that vibe and aren't exactly dying to be the object of it.

So, my point was that it gave strength to the guess that part of the problem could be that he's giving off desperate vibes with ENFPs. Because if he's not interested in SJs he wouldn't be giving off such vibes and that could explain why they aren't "scared away".

The subject at hand is fucking ENFP chicks. That being the case, why his behavior with any other kind of women would be a point of discussion is beyond me. I'm still failing to see how what I said was misconstrued, especially since you seem to actually be on the same page.

 

[Typhus]

Ladies, please restrain yourselves. No fighting over me!

I hope I'm not giving out desperate vibes. If so, that needs work. Rather than analyze my past relationships and their failures, I'm looking to understand the causes of friction and misunderstanding between INTPs and ENFPs. So if INTPs and ENFPs and those who know of these types in relationships could step forward and tell us what they've learnt, I'd be grateful.

Most INTPs I know treat ExFPs like airheads. Even if they like them, it's more like "you're a cute & entertaining airhead". Perhaps not true for the OP, but just my observation IRL. ENFPs generally don't like that treatment, and ESFPs only tolerate it if they think it gives them an edge (my ESFP sis says she likes to be "underestimated" as a kind of advantage over people).

I knew an ENFP who was obsessed with this mutual INTP friend of ours. He pretended not to like her when he kinda did, and most of his contemptuous attitude was towards her being kind of silly. Not in her humor, but just her general way. I think it amused him, but he was also annoyed at times by it. She pursued him relentlessly anyway, as infatuated ENFPs tend to do. Not sure how anyone could miss those signals...

Oh yeeeaaah, I like design & bright colors, and I'm totally down for a conversation on Kant. IDk why people think an interest in fashion or aesthetics means shallow or not intellectually inclined....

This is excellent. I'm attracted to ENFPs but a lot of them do register as airheads. I can't make sense of their logic. Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?

I'm not saying that ENFPs who like aesthetics are shallow. But most of the ones who I met who do like aesthetics don't have much interest in abstract philosophical discussions. Even my female ENFP friend who majored in it in college was terrible at it. But our mutual ENFP male friend was interested and good at having those kind of conversations. Why? Individual differences? Enneagram differences? Perhaps ENFPs with a 5 wing are good at it?

There is more to Ne than banter and silly games, you silly silly boy

Fine, lemme spell it out then. Instead of tearing them a new one for presenting you with a half-assed hypothesis when they discuss something with you, recognize it for the draft that it is, appreciate the fact that they wnat your input on it, and use that Ne of yours together with your Ti to fill the gaps and 'construct' something together, editing the first draft, plugging the holes and actually work together as a team. We dont present full hypotheses, we present ideas. Therefore they will *NEVER* be up to the standard you would be using before presenting your own personal hypotheses. This is also what you *like* about us...that we are spontaneous and bubbly and toss out the weirdest shit first

So don't punish us for it. Restrain that inner critic of yours and appreciate the invite to work on the project at brainstorming level, bouncing ideas off of each other. And yes..value that Fi input, if you can. We try to do the same with your foreign feeling Ti. I know Fi looks really like its build on air castles, but it most certainly has value and its own logic. So suspend your logical naysaying and watch it work its magic

It is coz ENFPs tend to soundboard things off of others to fill in their Fi and finetune it. INFPs are a lot more confident in their Fi than we are as we re Ne-dom and looking at everything from every angle. As a Ti-dom..you re kinda crushing them in debate coz it often aint a debate to us, it is an exchange on a first draft presented and a way to work on a project together. And if not, you'll get Te-clobbered, don't worry

Still does not answer my question though. Why go ENFP-fishing at all?

I fish for ENFPs because I tend to be attracted to them. As an INTP, I conduct analysis of my preferred partners. Though I'm not expert at it, I've known about MBTI for a long time and got many of my friends to take the test. I know the vibes that ENFPs/ENFxs give off, I can recognize 4 or 5 wings in a crowd very quickly because they tune up with me in a way that few people do.

So INTPs do Ti-Ne and ENFPs Fi-Ne? How is each side's process perceived by the other? And how do I make sense of Ne-Fi? What is Fi? It feels weird to me. How does its logic work?

 

[kyuuei]

I just wanted to say [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] is a genius.

 

[OrangeAppled]

This is excellent. I'm attracted to ENFPs but a lot of them do register as airheads. I can't make sense of their logic. Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?

I'm not saying that ENFPs who like aesthetics are shallow. But most of the ones who I met who do like aesthetics don't have much interest in abstract philosophical discussions. Even my female ENFP friend who majored in it in college was terrible at it. But our mutual ENFP male friend was interested and good at having those kind of conversations. Why? Individual differences? Enneagram differences? Perhaps ENFPs with a 5 wing are good at it?

You must know how fickle Ne is. What interests the NP can be very arbitrary. What doesn't interest the NP can be cooly dismissed and ignored. An ENFP may have many intellectual interests, but not care a whit about software (which is more nerdy than intellectual). Generally, intellectual areas which will appeal to an NF have some connection to people and/or are very imaginative in nature. The more technical or mechanical it is, the less interest there may be. If it's philosophical or whimsical, then there may be more appeal. It's sort of a matter of dryness. Or if someone doesn't know a lot about something, then they may just listen & learn too. I suppose lack of active listening can indicate disinterest though.

Lastly, you are also quite sure you're not dealing with some ESFJs? They have the same interaction style & use tertiary Ne which often pops up as a random quality to conversation. Also, they tend to adapt to current social ideals, and ENFP is something of a modern ideal for a female personality. A big marker will be a tendency to not like the theoretical or abstract at all or not nearly to the degree the average NF will like it.

So INTPs do Ti-Ne and ENFPs Fi-Ne? How is each side's process perceived by the other? And how do I make sense of Ne-Fi? What is Fi? It feels weird to me. How does its logic work?

Fi is about understanding human nature via dissecting the self & using it as a basis for determining the fundamental value of things. So there's a focus on what is important, meaningful, significant, etc, in relation to the human condition.

It's making sense of stuff that has nothing to do with strict logic. There IS something like a structure or order to human emotional nature, and we like to have a deep grasp of it because it aids in knowing what's really important in life for yourself & other individuals (and individual needs will vary a lot).

 

[Starry]

I think the last ENFP I dated briefly thought I was judgemental/controlling because I told her playfully that she had to do something to make up for flaking out on something she said she'd do. I said it playfully, but over text, so I think she thought I was being controlling. I scared another one away.

I'm not convinced the individual described above is an ENFP (looking forward to your answer regarding how you know all these women are, in fact, ENFP)...but in the off chance she is...

This would be similar to her requiring you to 'do something to make it up' every time you silence an entire room with an awkward or inappropriate comment.

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] when I first saw this thread I was without a keyboard and had not yet had enough coffee. I subsequently felt a little helpless ha. And when I noticed you were also online I was like...'she would know what to say' and almost called you to the thread but didn't since...because...well...there's enough INFP threads around that need responding to. But then you showed up...and I just wanted to say I appreciate the comments very much.

I worked for a large institution that was involved in a scandal which instantly made the national news. And in response to this approx. 150 of us were randomly selected to participate in a multiple session workshop based on MBTI. <--So, as would be imagined, we were all administered the full length Myers Briggs (including a couple of short inventories although I don't remember what those were)...and were briefly interviewed by the professionals there to facilitate the entire thing. There were 6 ENFPs total at the end of all of this. And while I will say we were definitely the coolest group of them all haha ...no one was anything like this 'airheaded, bimbo, attention whore, unintelligent, self-centered ENFP' that I only became familiar with after having joined a few personality forums. Not saying they don't exist but all of them? All ENFPs fit this profile?

Che was an ENFP. I see many people try to explain the differences they see in Che and, I guess, all the airheaded girls (?)...by typing him as e8 but that's bs. Che was your average ENFP e7 sx. Yet in all this time...I've never seen someone come onto this forum with a 'Che like' description of an ENFP.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm not convinced the individual described above is an ENFP (looking forward to your answer regarding how you know all these women are, in fact, ENFP)...but in the off chance she is...

This would be similar to her requiring you to 'do something to make it up' every time you silence an entire room with an awkward or inappropriate comment.

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] when I first saw this thread I was without a keyboard and had not yet had enough coffee. I subsequently felt a little helpless ha. And when I noticed you were also online I was like...'she would know what to say' and almost called you to the thread but didn't since...because...well...there's enough INFP threads around that need responding to. But then you showed up...and I just wanted to say I appreciate the comments very much.

I worked for a large institution that was involved in a scandal which instantly made the national news. And in response to this approx. 150 of us were randomly selected to participate in a multiple session workshop based on MBTI. <--So, as would be imagined, we were all administered the full length Myers Briggs (including a couple of short inventories although I don't remember what those were)...and were briefly interviewed by the professionals there to facilitate the entire thing. There were 6 ENFPs total at the end of all of this. And while I will say we were definitely the coolest group of them all haha ...no one was anything like this 'airheaded, bimbo, attention whore, unintelligent, self-centered ENFP' that I only became familiar with after having joined a few personality forums. Not saying they don't exist but all of them? All ENFPs fit this profile?

Che was an ENFP. I see many people try to explain the differences they see in Che and, I guess, all the airheaded girls (?)...by typing him as e8 but that's bs. Che was your average ENFP e7 sx. Yet in all this time...I've never seen someone come onto this forum with a 'Che like' description of an ENFP.

Airheaded is all in perception, I'm starting to think. I was unimpressed to see the number of people who called me "stupid" for getting banned last time (yeah okay I made the Dean's list every semester in college and am self-employed and have done just about everything I've said I'm going to do in life IN REAL LIFE...and own certain debates on forums? ...because I'm "stupid") ...one member here once said that my As in college said nothing about my critical thinking skills, yet the simple fact remains that IRL sheerly through life experience (and not formal education or degrees) I can spot a con artist from a distance, the kind of person that would charm and rob a kinder person blind doesn't even make it past my 'fuckface' initial scanning, no matter how superficially "nice" or "cool" they seem on the surface. I have great instincts for jerks because of life experience, and I recently spotted a con artist, that a licensed drug counselor confirmed suspiciously has the "body language of a severe drug addict." Meanwhile, a woman (I'm sorry but I do) I suspect of being an ENFP said "oh I'm such a nice diplomatic person, I had no idea."

So this is why some people might see ENFPs as "dumb" ...they can be brilliant, but the person in question couldn't even spot someone who will probably wreck shit if she lets them, and this woman is about 60. I'm 30 years younger, and can easily spot it through life experience, and the 60 year old theoretically *should* have more smarts about this thing, but as an ENFP, she probably emphasizes kindness and non-judgment over things like tangible life experience and common sense. I think the drug counselor who "officially" confirmed my instincts about the con artist in question is some kind of ESxJ.

But apparently some people think *I'm* dumb.

There are so many levels of "stupid" and trust me I have met TRULY STUPID PEOPLE.

Most average people though just judge one another by their own standards, all of them having about the same amount of intelligence (give or take) but are just smart in different ways.

That all being said, I wonder if [MENTION=18292]Typhus[/MENTION] is putting ENFPs off with his sense of intellectual superiority. Someone who can smell that they think you think you're better than them or smarter than them will sometimes avoid you and lose any sense of attraction. Especially if it's an overweening, "nerdy" kind of "welp I'm smarter than anyone, case closed."

Also, the OP might be severely overweight, poorly groomed or something.

But then again I doubt that since he says he has SJs crawling over him; SJs love good grooming. ESFJ ex said he wouldn't have dated me if I wasn't the kind of girls who painted my toe nails, and don't get me started on the exacting standards ISTJ gave me about panty patterns (solid, dark colors only) and the overt comments he made about things like hair style and weight.

So it must be his personality. I can't imagine real SJs crawling over some ill-groomed slob who didn't meet conventional societal standards, unless he was a childhood sweetheart or trusted family friend.

 

[EJCC]

Yeah, if a buttload of other types of girls also aren't letting you in, it may not be a type thing. As in, it's not a type thing.

Nobody finds desperate attractive. You're probably giving off icky, needy vibes and scaring away the little ENFP birds.

Like others on this thread, I'm wondering why the SJs supposedly flock to him... Maybe they're looking for someone to fix? Or someone to dominate?

Edit: [MENTION=74]digesthisickness[/MENTION] might be right about this. I, for one, have an irritating tendency to be much more attracted to guys who already have girlfriends, because 1) I see their real personality and sense of humor right off the bat, and 2) they're much more confident. A lot of the behavior that guys put on in an attempt to get girls to like them, really turns me off. Especially since a lot of that behavior comes from an assumption that all girls want to be waited on, and all girls want guys to come across as being almost too cool for them (regardless of whether they are or not).

I think the last ENFP I dated briefly thought I was judgemental/controlling because I told her playfully that she had to do something to make up for flaking out on something she said she'd do. I said it playfully, but over text, so I think she thought I was being controlling. I scared another one away.

I think INTx = inconveniently deadpan. Even in person. So I can see via text being even worse.

(My INTJ friend and I have a recurring joke about her troll face being the same as her normal face. And neither of us is sure of whether the pros outweigh the cons, regarding that, or vice versa.)

I'm not familiar with cognitive functions like Ti. Google tells me that Ti is not in the top four dominant traits of ENFP, so does it scare ENFPs?

I don't think it scares them, as much as it pisses them off.

No, I have SJ women after me. I don't get into relationships with them because I'm attracted almost exclusively to ENFP females.

Statements like this bug me... Maybe it would bug me less if you translated it into non-MBTI terms.

What is it about these "ENFP" girls that you find appealing, that supposedly no other girls have?

 

[Thalassa]

Joke fail.

Sounded like you implied that she was supposed to put out to compensate.

I recall some similar fuck ups in past interactions with ENFPs. It's like they naturally bait me to say something insensitive. One once told me that she wanted to adopt a girl because she empathized with the situation of being abandoned by a parent. I said something like " that's not gonna change the world much".

Another ENFP stopped replying to my messages right after I stopped talking about her for a small moment to talk about my career goals.


We tend to use some typology lingo here, but stick around and you'll eventually learn a lot.


Ime, yes. I'd suggest you to forget ENFPs and go for ENFJs instead - they'll more readily appreciate an impersonal feedback (INTP specialty) without freaking out. They are rarer online though.

I'm just curious why you think the person in question isn't an ESFP or ESFJ. An SF would be very likely to see a simple act of adopting one child being doing something to change the world. Ne is more likely to be the one who has some master plan. Or Ni I guess...like Hitler.

SFs are likely to think they can change the world one person at a time.

Taking care of aging parents, adopting unwanted children, raising grandchildren, carrying girls' heavy groceries, that's the forte of sensors, bro, not ENFPs.

 

[EJCC]

I'm just curious why you think the person in question isn't an ESFP or ESFJ. An SF would be very likely to see a simple act of adopting one child being doing something to change the world. Ne is more likely to be the one who has some master plan. Or Ni I guess...like Hitler.

SFs are likely to think they can change the world one person at a time.

Taking care of aging parents, adopting unwanted children, raising grandchildren, carrying girls' heavy groceries, that's the forte of sensors, bro, not ENFPs.

I disagree with the bolded, from experience with both an ENTJ and an ENFP -- the ENFP is my best friend and the ENTJ is her mother, and they're both Enneagram 2. So I'm gonna say that if this is type-related at all (which it might not be), then it's more Enneagram than MBTI.

I'm a bit confused with [MENTION=13260]Rasofy[/MENTION]'s reaction, though. It doesn't sound like she ever implied that she wanted to change the world... She said that "she wanted to adopt a girl because she empathized with the situation of being abandoned by a parent" -- which is not about changing the world*, as much as it is trying to help an individual child to not go through what you went through. It's out of empathy, and out of wanting to help people.

*I mean, it could be, but why assume?

 

[Winds of Thor]

ENFPs are excellent judges of character. I think you need to be balanced well and show them what's inside of you because they see people's character first and foremost. May be tricky for INTPs idk.

 

[Amargith]

I still don't get it. I do not get why you are attracted to a person when you label them as 'airheaded'. And I *still* haven't seen an appreciation for their strengths from any of the INTPs in here.

All youve said is that they are airheaded, gregarious, sexy *wink wink* and you want to remove their pants (and yeah, I get that that was to just add some spice to the posts, but still). Im sorry but...I'm not your fucking blow-up doll. Nor am I arm candy. And as was stated before in this thread.. I read people well, so I *will* know that that is all you want from me. There has been no mention of appreciation, respect, not even any evidence of even noticing what you actually *like* about us. About who we are. About what it truly is you value in us. And unless you can demonstrate that - something you apparently dont even think to tell a bunch of strangers- , that you actually understand who we are and value it, you aint going near those pants, Im sorry

If you go back to my previous posts, when I talk about INTPs, the *first* thing I did was talk about the qualities that I admire and find attractive in INTPs. Why I respect them, look up to them and enjoy their company. I do not even mention the fact that their social skills often need work, coz you know what? To me, that is something that I can work with and often actually find endearing, in a good way.

Other than 'I wanna bed them coz they're smexy', I have yet to see the same from you guys. On the contrary, you've expressed that you clearly do not understand ENFPs by sharing that you perceive them as air headed and incapable of discussing the topics *YOU* want to discuss. You've actualy *listed* the reasons as to why you are unlikely to respect their povs, the way they go about things or consider them your equals in a relationship.

And you expect to be let into our beds *WHY* exactly?

...Oh right, coz YOU feel like it.

My bad.



Edit:

Ps: you've just seen Fi-logic in action. The actions, reasoning and wishes expressed by the INTPs in this thread do not add up from an Fi logic pov, at least not with the data provided thus far. Too many gaps, too many inconsistencies and potentially too little awareness as to what constitutes a good mate for your needs in terms of a long-term relationship. So either you are bs-ing about being serious in wanting an enfp partner for a relationship (and you do really just wanna sleep with us and move on), or you still have a long way to go in figuring out what makes a relationship work. Whatever the reason, at this point and in my books, you're too big of a risk to invest in emotionally- at the very least until those questions are answered and the inconsistencies have been smoothed out.

 

[EJCC]

^ Let [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]'s post be a lesson in what you're likely doing wrong with your beloved ENFPs, [MENTION=18292]Typhus[/MENTION]...

 

[Rasofy]

I'm just curious why you think the person in question isn't an ESFP or ESFJ. An SF would be very likely to see a simple act of adopting one child being doing something to change the world. Ne is more likely to be the one who has some master plan. Or Ni I guess...like Hitler.

No way she's an ESFJ, though I could buy ESFP.

SFs are likely to think they can change the world one person at a time.

Taking care of aging parents, adopting unwanted children, raising grandchildren, carrying girls' heavy groceries, that's the forte of sensors, bro, not ENFPs.

Makes sense, in general.

I'm a bit confused with [MENTION=13260]Rasofy[/MENTION]'s reaction, though. It doesn't sound like she ever implied that she wanted to change the world... She said that "she wanted to adopt a girl because she empathized with the situation of being abandoned by a parent" -- which is not about changing the world*, as much as it is trying to help an individual child to not go through what you went through. It's out of empathy, and out of wanting to help people.

*I mean, it could be, but why assume?

I kinda understood her at the time, but I didn't want to sound like I would appreciate the idea of adopting a child if I ever become her partner, so I gave her my honest opinion about the whole situation and then suggested volunteering.

 

[skylights]

I'm INTP and I've felt the magnetic pull that only ENFPs seem to have over me. But I scare away most of them. I'm not mean or creepy so why do you run away? I'm just weird. Am I giving off some creepy vibes? I checked the mirror and I don't have an evil pulsating green boil that on my forehead.

ENFPs, how do your perceive INTPs? I'm outgoing and clownish for an INTP.

While I appreciate that ENFPs are attractive to you, it's sort of blindingly obvious why an ENFP wouldn't feel the same back. I don't think you've meant to, but you've continually dismissed our intelligence and analytical ability. We might not think in the same way as you, but we are N-dominant, and we live in a world of abstractions, theory, and concepts. We tend to value our theoretical competency very highly, and will readily dismiss people who interpret us at a basic external level, because so much of our important processing is taking place deep inside and is challenging to immediately translate into communication. We appreciate the people who are quickly able to "look beyond" and see that our linking speech patterns indicate complex interrelated concepts which are consistently structured. Most people who have known us for a long time are aware that we are deep thinkers, but those who meet us just briefly tend to assume we are bubbly airheads, and we reciprocally dismiss them for their superficial judgment.

As for INTPs - I like INTPs. My father is one. I find them interesting to talk to and exceedingly useful when it comes to learning the technical specifications of essentially anything. They're creative, independent, and a bit temperamental. However, I think INTPs tend to overvalue their judgments and undervalue personal worth. Part of that includes dismissing people quickly when they aren't as logic-oriented as the INTP themselves, and dismissing the importance of thought that doesn't prioritize logic.

7 wing ENFPs seem almost ESFP. They're not very attracted to intelligence. I've met many ENFPs but few were capable of analytical thought like INTPs.

I'm sort of floored by this comment, lol. I've never met an ENFP for whom depth of thought wasn't a huge priority. I would agree that we don't do analytical thought like INTPs, but e6w7 ENFPs ought to be very analytical on a Ne-Te level, always running possibility-probability analysis of future events.

I think part of your problem is that you're interpreting "intelligence" in a very INTP light.

Here's the difference in Ne-Ti analysis and Ne-Te analysis: Ti is Introverted Thinking, and I like to think of it as "internal consistency of logic". Ti assesses systems for how well the logic operates within the system. It quickly hones in on gaps in internal reasoning, inconsistencies in definition and placement, and minor errors in calculation. When applied to a subject like philosophy, Ti takes the philosophical system at hand and analyzes it for whether it works internally. It ensures all the logical links are intact and functional, and it seeks to improve the system where it is weak. Like Fi, it looks at the "ideal beauty" of the system, whether it is accurate and precise and as good as it can be.

However, Te is Extraverted Thinking, and it looks at the external consistency of logic. Te doesn't really care if the system works internally - it cares if it works when applied to the outside world. It seeks to categorize consistently and operate efficiently. When applied to philosophy, Te asks if the philosophy is useful in application to daily living. Coupled with Fi, it asks how much good the philosophy can realistically do, and whether it will accurately produce the results we are seeking. That's where we look for weaknesses in the system, and where we seek to improve it. Te doesn't seek beauty or idealism as much as simplistic external functioning. Through Te eyes, there's not much point in making a beautiful, pure system if it doesn't get us the results we're seeking.

So I think to strong Ti users, Te can come off heavy-handed and shortsighted, and especially since it's only an ENFP's 3rd function, INTPs tend to dismiss ENFP's usage of logic. We're more interested in the concept itself, and what it indicates about the world, rather than the way it operates. We're also more interested in how things will be helpful to individuals, and how they can improve personal wellbeing.

I'm attracted to ENFPs but a lot of them do register as airheads. I can't make sense of their logic. Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?

Maybe she just doesn't know a lot about software, or isn't interested. Myself, I can program in terms of writing webpages by hand but I don't know much about software, and if more knowledgeable people were discussing it, I'd probably pipe down and listen, too. Is she sticking around and listening, or does she leave? If she's staying, she's interested. She'd leave if she weren't.

Even if she weren't, though, that doesn't make her unintelligent. It just makes her not interested in programming, lol.

I'm not saying that ENFPs who like aesthetics are shallow. But most of the ones who I met who do like aesthetics don't have much interest in abstract philosophical discussions. Even my female ENFP friend who majored in it in college was terrible at it. But our mutual ENFP male friend was interested and good at having those kind of conversations. Why? Individual differences? Enneagram differences? Perhaps ENFPs with a 5 wing are good at it?

A distinction: all ENFPs should be interested in abstract discussion with personal factors. Not all ENFPs will be interested in abstract discussion without personal factors, and not all ENFPs will be interested in philosophical discussion. If you were pushing for a Ti-logic-based discussion on philosophy sans personal factors with your ENFP friend, then she may well have not been into it.

In any case - if you want to get in an ENFP's pants, try to appreciate their intelligence for what it is. Recognize their theoretical fluency, their ability to conceptualize, and their abiding sense of the "big picture" and need for global significance. Recognize the deep well of idealistic compassion in their Fi, and the practical prioritization of their Te. An ENFP will never feel valued being interpreted as a sweet, chattery, bubbly airhead. We will feel valued being understood as conceptual, idealistic, communicative, and adaptive.

 

[Amargith]

^And that is a wrap, folks.
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]

 

[violet_crown]

Edit: [MENTION=74]digesthisickness[/MENTION] might be right about this. I, for one, have an irritating tendency to be much more attracted to guys who already have girlfriends, because 1) I see their real personality and sense of humor right off the bat, and 2) they're much more confident. A lot of the behavior that guys put on in an attempt to get girls to like them, really turns me off. Especially since a lot of that behavior comes from an assumption that all girls want to be waited on, and all girls want guys to come across as being almost too cool for them (regardless of whether they are or not).

She's not right and neither are you. He could attract every SJ on the planet and if it still does nothing for his confidence (which apparently it does not) there'll be nothing to carry over in his interactions with women he does find attractive. The analogy youve just made is not even close to being valid. I'm about ready to concede though that apparently Ne using women *do* find that needy bullshit attractive, which is why you all are so quick to find excuses for the OP.

 

[EJCC]

She's not right and neither are you. He could attract every SJ on the planet and if it still does nothing for his confidence (which apparently it does not) there'll be nothing to carry over in his interactions with women he does find attractive. The analogy youve just made is not even close to being valid. I'm about ready to concede though that apparently Ne using women *do* find that needy bullshit attractive, which is why you all are so quick to find excuses for the OP.

Neither of us are excusing the OP, and I don't think either of us intends the SJ theorizing to carry over to how he acts towards ENFPs. Frankly, when I was writing that section of the post, I was completely mentally detached from the OP and assuming that how he acts around SJ women irl is completely different from 1) how he treats ENFPs, and 2) how he treats people on this thread.

Our entire point was that SJs might find him attractive if he CUT the needy bullshit and replaced it with normal confident platonic guy behavior.


Edit: [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] has it right
/thread

 

[INTP]

This is excellent. I'm attracted to ENFPs but a lot of them do register as airheads. I can't make sense of their logic. Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?

From what i have noticed, most of them are not airheads, but definitely arent as logic oriented people like INTPs are(as in, their consciousness isnt occupied by logic as much as ours is, but they can use logic, its just not as important for them to apply it on every situation and since they can figure it out intuitively). But you see there is more to having a sharp mind than just blind faith in logic. Even if we go to IQ testing and type, intuition correlates the strongest on high IQ, thinking some yes, but not nearly as much as intuition does. But IQ type intelligence isnt what i wanna concentrate on.

We INTPs also are good at looking things from multiple angles, ENFPs do this usually quicker and might be able to see more perspectives to same thing since they use their creativity more on this, because they arent so fast on weeding out the logically irrelevant perspectives. This leads to what i believe was mentioned before, they might blurt out some ideas that are half thought out. You see we have introverted thinking as our dominant function, which basically looks at whats logical and what is not and screens out the illogical ones. For us this intuitively perceiving the situation from multiple angles is just fuel for our thinking. ENFPs use their thinking in totally different manner and dont consciously concentrate on it unless the situation calls for it. ENFPs use extraverted thinking, which is more directed by what they see and hear, and is something that is more concentrated on organizing things and sort of seeing the logic in things without having to be like "if X = Y + Z and T = X + Y, then T = 2X - Z" type of thing, which is something that INTPs do with our thinking much more and dont feel drained doing it(while ENFPs tend to get drained by that sort of stuff, especially if they need to do it for long). Also because their thinking isnt occupying so much of their conscious mind, its more of a background process which gets embedded to their intuition much more freely. But ENFPs do weed out their intuitions aswell, but they do it via their introverted feeling. Basically they do Ne with more Te influences and then pick out what is most valuable to them(but they dont do this weeding out as much as we do, since Fi is their secondary function, but if its something that clashes with their values they are just as fast on throwing that thing to a trash can as we are with something that is completely illogical). Personally i think this is just as rational than doing the weeding with thinking. Naturally there is more to this, but this should cover some.

I think the most important thing is to have respect to their abilities and see the value in them. What i think might be the issue is that while for us, continuing from our Ne ideas to getting rid of the shit with our thinking is so natural for us that, well it pretty much describes who we are. When ENFP blurts out some ideas, we tend to easily just continue from that and throw off the crap, when done enough times in short time, the ENFP sees you not valuing what she is good at, throwing off some ideas.. As mentioned earlier, play with their Ne, not just use it for something you can use to get ideas and throw down the majority of.

ENFPs are more than just airheads, even tho they might come off as ones because of the way they express themselves, and they know that they are more than that and you have to see those things that they actually are deep down and appreciate those things. If you cant do that, they will see it and perceive you as someone who isnt able to appreciate them for who they are and someone who just is attracted to their exterior(as in bubbly free spirited hot chick who you wanna dip your dick in).

 

[violet_crown]

Our entire point was that SJs might find him attractive if he CUT the needy bullshit and replaced it with normal confident platonic guy behavior.

I see where the disconnect occurred. I interpreted Digest's comment to mean that if he wasn't having trouble with pulling SJs, then a neediness problem problem couldn't be a possibility elsewhere. I mean, if my initial comment is that being desperate is a turn-off then the inverse also being true seems too obvious to need to point out.