[NF] INFP vs INFJ

[OrangeAppled]

See here's my deal. There are some INFJ 4's who I bump into who are motorcycle riding gymnasts who read "great expectations" one too many times. Then there are INFJ 4's I meet who listen to sigur ros and hate motorcycles and hate leaving their houses and pretty much hate everything stated prior and are more interested in drawing pictures and talking to their cat about the sound of the rain against the glass.

One I have absolute love and adoration for, the other makes me cringe.

There is a completely different change in flavor. A great inconsistency. So I move over to INFP's. Its the same exact thing. The only system I've found that's had any competence in separating the differences for me is socionics.

However Extroverts almost never have an issue with swapping the J/P

I think there's even a website dedicated to solving the differences. If we're going by Kiersey, sure. J/P difference is easy to see. But a lot of people don't actually know what the functional definitions are online.

The only functional definitions I've ever read that have a shred of consistency or logical sense derived from their name is here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/134-Lenore-Thomson-MBTI-Functions

This is because you're very focused on outward traits like taste & actions, which is typical of an SP. I notice SPs tend to like Keirsey &/or socionics a lot because they tend to categories according to observable behaviors & social roles. There is certainly some validity to that (such as what I just did to you, hehe), but then you cannot claim to be grouping by thought processes, or it's a poor way to do it if taken too literally.

Around here, Jung is sort of king because his functions define cognitive processes, not the way a person functions outwardly (although it often provides clues, yes). Any specifics he mentions are meant to illustrate more than define.

This is also why there is not a clear alignment with socionics & MBTI (based more on Jung & thinking styles than socionics). The difference is more marked with introverts because we're defined more by inner self than outer self, yet we often have a "face" that appears more like our auxiliary extroverted function. That's why J/P distinctions can be clues for type, although not rigid rules either. I would also look at J/P in terms of mentality over behavior, as much as possible.

What you quote is Lenore Thompson - good book, and you get a clear idea between INFPs & INFJs in there that is more focused on mental attitudes. However, her INFP descriptions are heavily e9, IMO. Shirley Manson is VERY ENFP in my eyes, and being a 4, she looks similar to many INFP e4s (I relate to her a lot; bias? YES). Fiona Apple is another INFP e4; more fiery, less gentle.

Anyhow, you can have two individuals who think quite differently but take the same action for different reasons, or even the same reason arrived at in a very different manner, and vice versa - two individuals who have similar styles of thinking act quite differently for the same reason or because they've arrived at different conclusions.

The thing with INFJs & INFPs is with inferior sensing, whether inferior Se or tert Si, there's an inconsistency in what individuals will be open to or inclined to pursue. INFPs tend to be more flexible, spontaneous & novelty driven (Ne), but perhaps need prodding (not taking initiative on their own - poor Je). INFJs can be more motivated to act on their own (Je stuff), but seriously confine sensory experience to what suits their inner vision; however, when something aligns they can be very into it, perhaps more engaged in it than an absent-minded INFP.

If you're dealing with e4s, then you're dealing with inner images, and some may romanticize a spontaneous, motorcycle riding image & others may not. Both types are driven to be "ideal", which means a kind of well roundedness that may begin to include more physical activity, especially with age. When I was a child, sports scared me & my defense was a disdain for them (meatheads!), but I idealized more graceful, solitary physical activities. So I liked the idea of surfing, but never followed through on it. The motorcycle thing sounds cool, but in all honesty, I know my obliviousness might make me end up in a coma. I'm not really sure about INFJs take on this, but I just know I see inconsistency in them too, and I think it's about how in control they may feel in a physical activity.

So yeah, some INFJs & INFPs may be like your latter description & some may much more cerebral. Generally, older & more developed individuals will be more open to experiences which don't jive with their inherent nature, regardless of type. And people are more than their type, so many other factors come into play when it comes to interests, behaviors, and even demeanor.

And to have such love/hate reactions to different individuals of your "opposite" type is very common. People tend to idealize or be repulsed by their anima/animus, and which reaction occurs can boil down to the individual they're dealing with. So for some INFJs to fascinate you & garner admiration but others to annoy you & inspire disdain is perfectly natural.

The dynamic I have with ESTPs as an INFP is much less extreme. It's more like benevolent indifference to a casual liking just because we're both laid-back Pe types. We'll work well together creatively as long as they don't get too greedy & I don't get too windy (oops! ).

 

[21%]

If you're dealing with e4s, then you're dealing with inner images, and some may romanticize a spontaneous, motorcycle riding image & others may not.

 

[Castameare]

And to have such love/hate reactions to different individuals of your "opposite" type is very common. People tend to idealize or be repulsed by their anima/animus, and which reaction occurs can boil down to the individual they're dealing with. So for some INFJs to fascinate you & garner admiration but others to annoy you & inspire disdain is perfectly natural.

this is also one the things that i consider to be important, people might start to project things from their inferior function onto somebody who may have this function as their dominant, funnily enough in the case of anima/animus this often centers around how you view the opposite sex, they see it as something outside of themselves that they don't quite own and which is not quite under their conscious control, seeing it manifested within another person for whom this function is quite natural, may either trigger some inferior complex, or some great attraction or they feel that it is so far from their dominant perspective that they just outright reject it.

so in case of anima/animus and opposite sex you might either get an INFJ who feels quite attracted to this aggressive, dominant 'Se- image' (think of the stereotype of the rather disciplined and organized INFJ girl who might feel some great attraction to a 'bad boy Se image') or someone who may look down on Se, seeing Se- leading users as just too simple minded and not really getting the core of the subject. (like for example this stereotyped way of INFJ artist snubbery who deems everything to senseory as shallow and inferior to his deep and meanigful compositions)

of course in real life it might manifest very differently and my examples may be a bit exaggerated in order to get across what i mean.

thing is with projecting your anima/animus is that you may fail to see that this is something that is also quite part of you, but that you might somehow reject because of the strong stance your dominant has, going back to my example that girl might be very attracted to this dominant, aggressive, factual, hands on Se- image she might project on the opposite sex, but she fails to see that her anima/animus is also part of herself.

so instead of projecting it and trying to 'own it' by maybe starting a relationship with such a person (which is only just based on the way how you see him)
it would be maybe more beneficial to see how this part works for you, because the older you get the more you might understand your inferior and develop it and what kind of happens is that you don't need the other person for it any more and when the relationship was just based on that well this may the point where it falls apart. (not to mention that that person might be vastly different to what you project onto them)

what i see within myself is that i often might hesistate to put myself out into a sensory experience, like grasping an opportunity that i haven't processed with Ni, lacking the courage to do it, because it just showed up spontaniously and i feel i need some time to think about it, so i might retreat and start thinking to much about it, going back and forth, feeling some kind of fear because i don't know where it may lead me (Ni), then after some time i realize that i just overthought and best way to handle it is to take the situation just at face value and learn how to improvise and work with the things i got at hand instead of planning and thinking to much about that stuff.

well this is maybe just one aspect of many how the inferior function might creep up.

 

[freeeekyyy]

What's the difference between INFJ and INFP?

I have my own ideas but I'd like to hear what everyone here thinks.

Very simply, (maybe too simply) INFJs will be more concerned with "making a better world." INFPs are more likely to be concerned with "understanding" their fellow person. (I hope this doesn't sound like an attack on either one of these types, or seeing them as less valuable than the other, because that certainly isn't the intent)

 

[Standuble]

Very simply, (maybe too simply) INFJs will be more concerned with "making a better world." INFPs are more likely to be concerned with "understanding" their fellow person. (I hope this doesn't sound like an attack on either one of these types, or seeing them as less valuable than the other, because that certainly isn't the intent)

I'm INFP and it's closer to "understanding and sharing insight so a better world can be achieved." The difference is unlike an INFJ I don't think I'm correct or qualified to determine what that better world would be so I would do what I can so the world can build their own better world. I don't believe I would be happy in a world after an INFJ has "made it better".

 

[freeeekyyy]

I'm INFP and it's closer to "understanding and sharing insight so a better world can be achieved." The difference is unlike an INFJ I don't think I'm correct or qualified to determine what that better world would be so I would do what I can so the world can build their own better world. I don't believe I would be happy in a world after an INFJ has "made it better".

Right, that's pretty much what I meant. I guess I was being a little bit imprecise there.

 

[WALMART]

INFJ's are sleek and sexy. Probably into high end fashion, positions of power, impressed by high competency, intelligence. Concerned with and enjoy playing into role, who's doing what. Close to ISTP with interpersonal habits.

INFP's are clunky and cute. Probably give up make-up a quarter of the way into life, seek to maximize personal freedom habitually. Unpressured by most environments, most idealized perceptions of the spectrum and intolerant of outlying factors. Close to ESTJ with interpersonal habits, has Te that puts Ti users to shame.


A little dogmatic and stereotypical, but meh, what's typology for if not this.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

INFJ's are sleek and sexy. Probably into high end fashion, positions of power, impressed by high competency, intelligence. Concerned with and enjoy playing into role, who's doing what. Close to ISTP with interpersonal habits.

INFP's are clunky and cute. Probably give up make-up a quarter of the way into life, seek to maximize personal freedom habitually. Unpressured by most environments, most idealized perceptions of the spectrum and intolerant of outlying factors. Close to ESTJ with interpersonal habits, has Te that puts Ti users to shame.

A little dogmatic and stereotypical, but meh, what's typology for if not this.

Actually, I've never heard that stereotype for an INFJ. It sounds more like an ESTJ. Your description is far more focused on the concrete world than a Ni-dom is. Your description combines Te and Si or possibly Se.

 

[skylights]

Actually, I've never heard that stereotype for an INFJ. It sounds more like an ESTJ. Your description is far more focused on the concrete world than a Ni-dom is. Your description combines Te and Si or possibly Se.

Short of the bit about being like ISTP in perosnal habits, it does sound strikingly like an ENFJ 3w4 so/sp that I know. Perhaps he knows an INFJ 3 so-first.

 

[WALMART]

Actually, I've never heard that stereotype for an INFJ. It sounds more like an ESTJ. Your description is far more focused on the concrete world than a Ni-dom is. Your description combines Te and Si or possibly Se.

We embody all eight functions, it only makes sense the things that drive us would contain elements of each one.

Despite this, much of what I have stated is the result of Ni + Fe. I bet you could throw out some equal veined lines of thought if you shifted the formula to Si + Fe. Then there's the factor of Fe being a substitute for Te, the thinking really does go on and on...

 

[Cellmold]

lol aa,

I wonder if she's trying to combine enneagram and mbti into one without knowing that that's what she's doing.

I sorta identified with Se but then it started to lose me after that. By her definitions I think I'd fit ENTJ better.

Yeah by hers, as much as I like her definitions, I am an INFP.

 

[OrangeAppled]

INFJ's are sleek and sexy. Probably into high end fashion, positions of power, impressed by high competency, intelligence. Concerned with and enjoy playing into role, who's doing what. Close to ISTP with interpersonal habits.

INFP's are clunky and cute. Probably give up make-up a quarter of the way into life, seek to maximize personal freedom habitually. Unpressured by most environments, most idealized perceptions of the spectrum and intolerant of outlying factors. Close to ESTJ with interpersonal habits, has Te that puts Ti users to shame.


A little dogmatic and stereotypical, but meh, what's typology for if not this.

Bolded in INFJ is probably true of me. Intelligence & competency is impressive (who likes the opposite?!), but not authority or power unless yielded in a compassionate, humble manner. Then it's impressive to me that someone can lead without being an ass.
If we're talking anima/animus stuff, wouldn't that be a non-asshole Te-dom too?

Bolded in INFP section is right too. The rest is off or it just doesn't resonate. Internally I can fee pressure in an environment, but I also can ignore it & appear to care far less than I do.

While I like some bohemian style, I also like makeup & avant garde high fashion. I couldn't care less about labels or status in image, but I appreciate the quality & innovation in higher end fashion & would probably indulge if I cared enough about money to make some. But I spend quite enough on clothes as it is.

Novelty is the thing - Ne is about exploring possibility, which can include exploring ways to use the phsyical image to reflect aspects of your inner world. I also do "character creation" when I get dressed, which means elegant sometimes & funky other times. In person I'm kind of known for my creative style, so I get sick of the stereotypes that INFPs are kind of anti-style - it's not rooted in reality nor do most MBTI descriptions include that idea.

This isn't even an e4 thing; my e9 INFP friend likes fashion & makeup too. I wouldn't call her cute, clunky or sleek or sexy, but sort of ethereal and elegant, maybe.

 

[hazelsees]

INFJ's are sleek and sexy. Probably into high end fashion, positions of power, impressed by high competency, intelligence. Concerned with and enjoy playing into role, who's doing what. Close to ISTP with interpersonal habits.

INFP's are clunky and cute. Probably give up make-up a quarter of the way into life, seek to maximize personal freedom habitually. Unpressured by most environments, most idealized perceptions of the spectrum and intolerant of outlying factors. Close to ESTJ with interpersonal habits, has Te that puts Ti users to shame.


A little dogmatic and stereotypical, but meh, what's typology for if not this.

Really?
I'm certainly not an INFJ then. I just read the "sleek and sexy, high end fashion, and positions of power" things to my SO and he just looked at me. So, I "demanded" that he describe me. (I realize this is always dangerous for a man regardless of his female's type). He struggled with this for a bit and finally said "unique". LOL! Then "natural". Anyway...

I really need to re-think the INFJ. Not just because of the above, but INFJs really seemed to be disliked people...and I don't experience being disliked in real life. Hmmm...

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I saw OrangeAppled apply this list personally, so thought it might be interesting to do the same.

INFJ's are sleek and sexy. Probably into high end fashion, positions of power, impressed by high competency, intelligence. Concerned with and enjoy playing into role, who's doing what. Close to ISTP with interpersonal habits.

INFP's are clunky and cute. Probably give up make-up a quarter of the way into life, seek to maximize personal freedom habitually. Unpressured by most environments, most idealized perceptions of the spectrum and intolerant of outlying factors. Close to ESTJ with interpersonal habits, has Te that puts Ti users to shame.

A little dogmatic and stereotypical, but meh, what's typology for if not this.

I agree with OA that I value competence and intelligence. I am also interested in the whole spectrum of perspectives and so especially enjoy teaching students with developmental delay and those with giftedness. I think I am surprisingly similar to ISTPs in lifestyle, except that I'm cautious and in my head more. I live in the forest and enjoy the ruggedness of working with my hands, hauling water in the winter, taking care of animals, direct communication. When I am present in the concrete world, I value a very earthy, simple, direct connection.

I buy clothes at thrift stores, although tend to look more polished than it would seem, except that there is an off-ness to me that is quite different from the majority of women who have a certain feminine polish. Women into fashion or with money could spot me in an instant as not being one of them. I love all the arts, but tend to dress a bit like a hippie and I adore T-shirts, sweatshirts. I tend to look a little sleepy, my hair is typically off and too fuzzy, I can't wear high heels, and I did stop wearing makeup while at the university and just started again recently just to look a little brighter and healthier. What stresses me out and what doesn't effect me is different from the norm. People observing me typically see me as unflappable and relaxed, but I do feel anxiety inwardly at times. I overcame driving anxiety and still have some performance anxiety. Conflict can also cause anxiety until I can calibrate to the person. I can calibrate to most anything if given enough time. fwiw from one infj.

We embody all eight functions, it only makes sense the things that drive us would contain elements of each one.

Despite this, much of what I have stated is the result of Ni + Fe. I bet you could throw out some equal veined lines of thought if you shifted the formula to Si + Fe. Then there's the factor of Fe being a substitute for Te, the thinking really does go on and on...

My question would be at what point does employing all eight functions for all types reach a point that makes the individual categories of type meaningless? I don't know the answer, but just asked the question.

 

[Thalassa]

INFJ's are sleek and sexy. Probably into high end fashion, positions of power, impressed by high competency, intelligence. Concerned with and enjoy playing into role, who's doing what. Close to ISTP with interpersonal habits.

INFP's are clunky and cute. Probably give up make-up a quarter of the way into life, seek to maximize personal freedom habitually. Unpressured by most environments, most idealized perceptions of the spectrum and intolerant of outlying factors. Close to ESTJ with interpersonal habits, has Te that puts Ti users to shame.


A little dogmatic and stereotypical, but meh, what's typology for if not this.

I think you're more right about INFP; your stereotype of INFJ sounds like you've been dating ISTJs.

WHAT IS IT WITH YOU AND ISTJ. It's like your elusive true self, I swear to god you just described Victoria Beckham, and if she's an INFJ, I'll eat my hat.

POSH SPICE

INFJ: YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG

 

[Thalassa]

Really?
I'm certainly not an INFJ then. I just read the "sleek and sexy, high end fashion, and positions of power" things to my SO and he just looked at me. So, I "demanded" that he describe me. (I realize this is always dangerous for a man regardless of his female's type). He struggled with this for a bit and finally said "unique". LOL! Then "natural". Anyway...

I really need to re-think the INFJ. Not just because of the above, but INFJs really seemed to be disliked people...and I don't experience being disliked in real life. Hmmm...

He's not at all right about this. Except for maybe the playing into a role, which is kind of an Fe thing. The whole picture he's trying to paint of positions of power and high end fashion sounds more like things Te cares about. I just pictured this extremely polished, brand-conscious woman who was domineering and into power, and I pictured her having Te.

Or possibly being an ESFJ raised in an environment where money assured social status and the role she should play.

These emphasis a couple of people have made on INFJs being more sexy than INFP is weird, too. I'm not sure what that is even about. I think any type can be sexual in their own way, and people who tend to wear their sexuality boldly out in the open probably have more Se than an INxJ.

 

[hazelsees]

I'm INFP and it's closer to "understanding and sharing insight so a better world can be achieved." The difference is unlike an INFJ I don't think I'm correct or qualified to determine what that better world would be so I would do what I can so the world can build their own better world. I don't believe I would be happy in a world after an INFJ has "made it better".

What does this even mean?

If you were working/involved with/volunteering in YOUR own little part of the world, you would never follow an INFJs lead if s/he were the "leader"? Provided that the INFJ was a somewhat healthy and mature person. If s/he was careful to listen to everyone on the team and not micromanage everything. If s/he was concerned for each individual's personal growth and values, and interested in what each individual could and desired to bring to the team?

Here is where I don't understand the "hate" on Fe.
I understand that Fi is concerned with individual values and such. But when an INFJ works with a team of people, the INFJ has to consider EVERYONE's personal values...not just one individual.
So...
Maybe I do not understand the functions properly.
I believe that I am an INFJ (although if anyone has other opinions on this, please share) and as an INFJ (or maybe it's just me as an individual) I prefer to consider others' wants/needs/values/opinions/etc. before making a decision that will affect people other than just me.

If it affects just me--that's a whole 'nother thing.

...and then someone--can't remember which member-- "is" an "INFJ Slayer"--that's funny, but really? I hope it's truly meant to be funny. Then I can enjoy laughing about it. If it's serious, why? The other two INFJs that I know (and me) are "good" citizens of the world and contribute to HELP make the world a better place. None want to control it. That's way too exhausting.

 

[Thalassa]

What does this even mean?

If you were working/involved with/volunteering in YOUR own little part of the world, you would never follow an INFJs lead if s/he were the "leader"? Provided that the INFJ was a somewhat healthy and mature person. If s/he was careful to listen to everyone on the team and not micromanage everything. If s/he was concerned for each individual's personal growth and values, and interested in what each individual could and desired to bring to the team?

Here is where I don't understand the "hate" on Fe.
I understand that Fi is concerned with individual values and such. But when an INFJ works with a team of people, the INFJ has to consider EVERYONE's personal values...not just one individual.
So...
Maybe I do not understand the functions properly.
I believe that I am an INFJ (although if anyone has other opinions on this, please share) and as an INFJ (or maybe it's just me as an individual) I prefer to consider others' wants/needs/values/opinions/etc. before making a decision that will affect people other than just me.

If it affects just me--that's a whole 'nother thing.

...and then someone--can't remember which member-- "is" an "INFJ Slayer"--that's funny, but really? I hope it's truly meant to be funny. Then I can enjoy laughing about it. If it's serious, why? The other two INFJs that I know (and me) are "good" citizens of the world and contribute to HELP make the world a better place. None want to control it. That's way too exhausting.

I thought INFJ slayer was like he meant he was a ladies man and INFJs liked him or something, because he's an ENTP. Or that he's secretly an INFJ. It doesn't necessarily mean he kills INFJs. In fact I think it's funny that you even thought that, sorry.

When I very first took the MBTI I got INFJ, when I was 17. I think this had a lot to do with STJ externally imposed order. I was always very orderly because I had no other choice, and had been made to feel "less than" if I didn't bound out of bed at 6 am or left my shoes in the living room.

Once I took control of my adult life, I have always resisted schedules and extreme order, though it's fine if someone else creates order around me, I can't bear it if it becomes pushy or stifling.

I've learned that basically I was raised by people who never allowed me to be my own authority, and it probably played into me having a rebellious streak, poor impulse control, lack of self-control in certain areas, et al. because I was so externally controlled.

As an adult, P is actually my strongest letter, and I think any over-estimation of Ni is due to it actually being my tertiary function as an ISFP.

All this being said, I honestly find it comical that you think that INFJs are hated. INFJ is one of the most coveted types, so many fake INFJs running around, I almost wouldn't type myself as INFJ even if I thought I was because there are no such thing as real INFJs on the Internet (I'm kidding, I think I've actually encountered a few on this forum, one I'm pretty absolutely certain of).

INFPs are often the picked on type; I honestly don't know where you get being described as "sexy" as "hatred."

If anything, a lot of Fe hatred is based on IRL interactions between ExxJs and IxxPs, and the IxxPs feeling like the ExxJs were being over-bearing.

That, and a lot of T types put all Fs down as an inferior species; I think it's only because they know the world wouldn't function without us.

In fact people seem highly resentful of "common" or "necessary to existence" types, such as SJs, for example; Feelers are also more common than Thinkers.

 

[The Iron Giant]

What's the difference between INFJ and INFP?

I have my own ideas but I'd like to hear what everyone here thinks.

Hey DJ.

Obviously all of these are generalizations, and based on my personal experiences. INFPs are more private than INFJs with their feelings, and sometimes this means they're quieter. To expand on this, it usually takes a long time to get close to an INFP, because they are often accustomed to their countersocial positions and opinions being invalidated by those around them in a society that would prefer they keep quiet. INFPs also, in my experience, are very sensitive about their feelings being ignored or invalidated, whereas an INFJ might take a more pragmatic approach about it for the sake of peace. I've noticed personally that the INFJs I've known are quite a bit more into pop culture than the INFPs I've known, but again, it's not a huge sample.

In short, if someone come off as quiet and good natured, then suddenly drops an opinion-bomb that seems so countersocial that it seems at first glance to be downright offensive, then defends it passionately and emotionally, they're probably Fi dom.

If someone is incredibly good at validating your feelings and places significant value on outwardly getting along with everyone, including people who aren't fit to lick his/her boots, they're probably Fe aux.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

...I really need to re-think the INFJ. Not just because of the above, but INFJs really seemed to be disliked people...and I don't experience being disliked in real life. Hmmm...

The type descriptions make people's imaginations run wild. There is some crazy projecting that goes on online that doesn't happen irl in the same way.

It think one part of the problem began when some type descriptions said INFJs are psychic, and so it felt flattering to many people to identify with the type for that reason alone. If they would just include at least one superpower with each type, it would take some of the heat off.

My hypothesis is that there is also something intangible in the description which leads to some of these crazy, conflicting ideas that people come up with. It is especially common for online posters to project their encounter with one infj and project the whole of that experience onto the category of people. Confirmation bias runs amuck and voila...