[MBTI General] Privacy or "the other man"?

[CowboyJack]

I'm not sure if this thread is in the proper place, but I am sure someone will be along and move it if it is not.

Straight to the point, then. I have been seeing a woman for close to a year now. We live a few hours away from each other. She is an ENFP and I am an INTJ. I thought things were going along fine with us, considering the distance and her schedule. Two months ago she said she wanted to take our relationship back a notch or two. Meaning and saying slow it down and look at expectations. I agreed. Now, thinking back over several things, I am wondering if I have been unbelievably clueless. She is a very private person, which I can respect, however, I am questioning the reasons for this privacy. Input would be of interest, please.

The facts:

a) She comes to my apartment and has said that I cannot come to her's out of respect for her roommate, who is her ex-boyfriend. She said they have an agreement to not bring dates/lovers home.
b) I have never met any of her friends and I am unlikely to.
c) She has told only one or two people she is seeing me.
d) Although we are both online and are aware of that, she will contact me only after a certain time of night. There are a few exceptions to this, but it is rare.
e) When we do talk, she is often distracted by phone calls, either personal or work, or a chat room she frequents. We use Skype and most nights our total talk time, if it was compared to face to face, is anywhere from five minutes to twenty minutes.
f) She will drive up to see me once or twice a month for the weekend. She tells me she will be here on Saturday, but does not get here until Saturday night. About fifty percent of the time she will leave Sunday afternoon, the other fifty percent Monday morning.

I am not sure how I feel about any of this, I think at this point, perhaps indifferent, but as I said, I would like some input.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, I wouldn't know for sure what is actually going on in her personal life or what she is thinking, but a lot of the things you describe don't really make a good relationship regardless of the reasons behind them. It really doesn't sound like you have a lot of quality time going on, you're not really part of her life, and it just seems odd to me that an extroverted person would have you so blocked out of her life and doesn't very often engage you; I would expect far more interaction with someone she was serious about.

Everyone is different and needs different amounts of interaction, but even her decision to "dial things back" to me just reaffirms that she's not really invested in this relationship. I mean, if you were to just end it right now, she wouldn't really lose much at all, and her life wouldn't change much if at all. Some of it could also be distance -- you were someone she'd be more into if you were close by, but it's hard to have a steady relationship with someone who is so far away, and that drive would be hard even if you like someone.

 

[Winds of Thor]

That really sucks. She sounds too selfish to be in this relationship. Her rules sound borderline weird. Kick her to the curb. Other girls will come along and you'll get a good one.

P.S. Don't be surprised by what you hear if you ask her if she's been shacking up with her 'roomate'.

 

[Giggly]

I think you should date someone who lives close by.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I'm not sure if this thread is in the proper place, but I am sure someone will be along and move it if it is not.

Straight to the point, then. I have been seeing a woman for close to a year now. We live a few hours away from each other. She is an ENFP and I am an INTJ. I thought things were going along fine with us, considering the distance and her schedule. Two months ago she said she wanted to take our relationship back a notch or two. Meaning and saying slow it down and look at expectations. I agreed. Now, thinking back over several things, I am wondering if I have been unbelievably clueless. She is a very private person, which I can respect, however, I am questioning the reasons for this privacy. Input would be of interest, please.

The facts:

a) She comes to my apartment and has said that I cannot come to her's out of respect for her roommate, who is her ex-boyfriend. She said they have an agreement to not bring dates/lovers home.
b) I have never met any of her friends and I am unlikely to.
c) She has told only one or two people she is seeing me.
d) Although we are both online and are aware of that, she will contact me only after a certain time of night. There are a few exceptions to this, but it is rare.
e) When we do talk, she is often distracted by phone calls, either personal or work, or a chat room she frequents. We use Skype and most nights our total talk time, if it was compared to face to face, is anywhere from five minutes to twenty minutes.
f) She will drive up to see me once or twice a month for the weekend. She tells me she will be here on Saturday, but does not get here until Saturday night. About fifty percent of the time she will leave Sunday afternoon, the other fifty percent Monday morning.

I am not sure how I feel about any of this, I think at this point, perhaps indifferent, but as I said, I would like some input.

All that is sketch - for any type.

My ENFP best friend did this sort of stuff with her on/off again relationship. She was cheating on that person. My ESTJ ex had similar "privacy" issues - he was cheating on me.

Basically, it's not normal and you should be wary. You're being played.

 

[Bamboo]

You left your question open ended, so my input would be that it sounds like it's more effort than it's worth, even if she wasn't cheating, which is highly questionable.

I wouldn't automatically disqualify someone for a living with ex situation, though it would catch my eye. I'm not sure how I'd interpret the "can't bring home lovers" situation, but it seems odd. Is this like a "running out the lease together" type thing, or did they just never find their own places? I wouldn't rule out them being cool with each other as friends, but then the "can't bring other's home" situation doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure what you'd describe this situation as (you're "seeing her"), but it's like a half-rate unreliable FWB. Which I guess would be acceptable if you were really busy and had nothing else going, but personally a lot of that would just annoy me. For the same amount of effort I'd imagine I rather be by myself but have less scheduling issues.

Then again, I don't mind talking to people only every once in a while, and if there was some (occasional) sexual/romantic element that would be ok, but it wouldn't be anything I'd commit to.

Aside from distractions do you actually enjoy your skype time? Visiting time?

 

[CowboyJack]

I do enjoy our time when we Skype. We also enjoy our time together when she is here. The situation with her ex is financial. About the time we got together, her employment contract ran out and he was looking for a place to live. Having him move back in cut very expensive rent in half. They were together for several years, but the last half of those years were as roommates. One of the agreements they made when he moved in was that out of courtesy for the other, neither would bring someone home. I personally would not agree to that, but I can see where some might.

 

[Bamboo]

I do enjoy our time when we Skype. We also enjoy our time together when she is here. The situation with her ex is financial. About the time we got together, her employment contract ran out and he was looking for a place to live. Having him move back in cut very expensive rent in half. They were together for several years, but the last half of those years were as roommates. One of the agreements they made when he moved in was that out of courtesy for the other, neither would bring someone home. I personally would not agree to that, but I can see where some might.

Hmm.

Well I'm not sure what to tell ya. I'm not going to arrive at any conclusions without more definitive evidence (which you probably don't have), but I can understand your questioning or being unsure. It's probably worth noting that aside from privacy or cheating there might be luke-warm interest, stress, communication issues, interest but commitment issues, etc etc etc.

I can say that I wouldn't agree to that move in agreement either - not in the long term. I like having my space, a "Home court." One part of me reads that at face value as courtesy, but you could fill in the blanks other ways, too. Of course, just because you can fill in the blanks doesn't mean you must.

So she shows up late sometimes and is otherwise distracted. When you say you talk for 5-20 minutes, is she engaged in the conversation?

Or, better question: describe a typical or summarize a few recent skype chats. Same thing with a meetup.

And what sort of relationship expectations are you talking about?

 

[cafe]

Whether she's supposed to be being monogamous with someone else or just being private, it seems as though she is treating you more like a booty call than a significant other. This kind of relationship has pros and cons. If you're looking for a life partner, though, I suspect she is not a good candidate for that.

 

[highlander]

This one is pretty simple.

Dump her.

(Was that too blunt?)

 

[CowboyJack]

What she has told me is that she does, indeed, have commitment issues. She suspects she has an attachment disorder. She has also said that it takes her years to decide to commit to a relationship. As for the Skype conversations, sometimes she is very engaged, others not. She will tell me when she on the phone or distracted otherwise. When she is here, we will sometimes get online and it will be a shared activity. Most of our time when she is here is spent talking, watching movies, or just hanging out. Concerning the sex, being male, of course I would like more, but there are times when she says she just isn't "feeling very sexy". I would say we have sex twice, at the very least, when she comes up. As far as "snuggling" and "cuddling", she is the one that initiates it most of the time.

 

[cafe]

If you just enjoy having someone screw with your head, you're all set. Some unhealthy FPs can keep something like this going for years. Then, if you're lucky, they move on.

 

[Bamboo]

What she has told me is that she does, indeed, have commitment issues. She suspects she has an attachment disorder. She has also said that it takes her years to decide to commit to a relationship. As for the Skype conversations, sometimes she is very engaged, others not. She will tell me when she on the phone or distracted otherwise. When she is here, we will sometimes get online and it will be a shared activity. Most of our time when she is here is spent talking, watching movies, or just hanging out. Concerning the sex, being male, of course I would like more, but there are times when she says she just isn't "feeling very sexy". I would say we have sex twice, at the very least, when she comes up. As far as "snuggling" and "cuddling", she is the one that initiates it most of the time.

Ok, well you have enough of something going that I can see some appeal in maintaining it, but unless you can reasonably expect some sort of change in her behavior, the harsh fact is you probably can at least find someone local who would do the same things. Obviously you can't replace her as a person, but that sort of hanging out and hooking up is well...the norm. You can find that with a lot of people.

I know it's hard to ignore sunk costs, but a fresh start might make the most sense.

My often laid back nature in this realm (dealing with uncertainty) has put me in some long distance as well as undefined situations. None of them were really bad or destructive for me, if anything I enjoyed them, more positive then negative, though I suppose there were rough/uncomfortable spots.

But if I had a fault it would more likely be staying in a situation that really doesn't work that well but adapting to it anyway rather than not giving something a chance, so keep that in mind, that's my POV.

 

[FDG]

Is she the one always driving up to see you? I guess after all the whole situation doesn't sound too bad, unless you were looking for something long-term.

 

[CowboyJack]

Yes, she does all the driving. I am bouncing back and forth about what is going on. One minute I'm thinking she must want something with me or she would not be doing all that driving. She contacts me daily, she puts up with my INTJ grumpiness. It seems like more then just a booty call. Then I will think about the things in my first post and wonder if I'm just blind.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Yes, she does all the driving. I am bouncing back and forth about what is going on. One minute I'm thinking she must want something with me or she would not be doing all that driving. She contacts me daily, she puts up with my INTJ grumpiness. It seems like more then just a booty call. Then I will think about the things in my first post and wonder if I'm just blind.

Sorry to hear about this scenario.

It reads like a power imbalance to me - like she is in complete control of the communication. I would recommend looking for other romantic possibilities and ask other women out, so that you do not direct your entire emotional investment in her. Then it might also be interesting to break her rules and see what happens? Start communicating on your terms, whenever you desire a conversation or visit. That could bring everything to the surface, so that you are not wondering what is going on.

 

[skylights]

a lot of the things you describe don't really make a good relationship regardless of the reasons behind them.

This is my thought as well.

I rarely tend to advocate assuming there's "another man" unless the signals are very clear, and in this case they seem ambiguous. It sounds like she does have pretty significant attachment/commitment issues. At the same time, it seems like she's doing some degree of initiation to maintain the relationship. Perhaps she's cheating; it certainly seems like that could be a possibility. However, perhaps she just doesn't "do" much closeness. I have an ENFP friend who is like this - she likes to dip her toes in a little playful engagement and then run for the hills. She's not a cheater, but she doesn't really do commitment, either.

I think that given you are both Te/Fi, it could be useful to sit her down for a heart-to-heart about how you are concerned that she might not be feeling invested in the relationship. My personal instinct is to just rip all the issues open and see where you both stand, and whether it's worth continuing or not. Like others have voiced, it doesn't seem like you stand much to lose - at least nothing that cannot be recreated with another person more willing to explicitly and behaviorally commit.

Ok, well you have enough of something going that I can see some appeal in maintaining it, but unless you can reasonably expect some sort of change in her behavior, the harsh fact is you probably can at least find someone local who would do the same things. Obviously you can't replace her as a person, but that sort of hanging out and hooking up is well...the norm. You can find that with a lot of people.

I know it's hard to ignore sunk costs, but a fresh start might make the most sense.

Yes.

Do you like the relationship the way it is now? Or do you desire more involvement in her life? I think that is the biggest factor in deciding whether to stay with this or whether to ditch it, assuming she's not cheating, because maybe she will be willing to include you more slowly over time, but for the most part, I think that you will be dealing with this distance for the rest of your relationship.

 

[Totenkindly]

Do you like the relationship the way it is now? Or do you desire more involvement in her life? I think that is the biggest factor in deciding whether to stay with this or whether to ditch it, assuming she's not cheating, because maybe she will be willing to include you more slowly over time, but for the most part, I think that you will be dealing with this distance for the rest of your relationship.

Yup. It's really a matter of, "Are you happy with this the way it is right now, assuming it doesn't change?"

 

[Society]

The facts:

a) She comes to my apartment and has said that I cannot come to her's out of respect for her roommate, who is her ex-boyfriend. She said they have an agreement to not bring dates/lovers home.
b) I have never met any of her friends and I am unlikely to.
c) She has told only one or two people she is seeing me.
d) Although we are both online and are aware of that, she will contact me only after a certain time of night. There are a few exceptions to this, but it is rare.
e) When we do talk, she is often distracted by phone calls, either personal or work, or a chat room she frequents. We use Skype and most nights our total talk time, if it was compared to face to face, is anywhere from five minutes to twenty minutes.
f) She will drive up to see me once or twice a month for the weekend. She tells me she will be here on Saturday, but does not get here until Saturday night. About fifty percent of the time she will leave Sunday afternoon, the other fifty percent Monday morning.

I am not sure how I feel about any of this, I think at this point, perhaps indifferent, but as I said, I would like some input.

its entirely possible she is telling the truth, but not plausible. most likely there are a few dozen big lies there - possibly lies of omission. people generally want to spend time with their lovers, so they make time and prioritize. if she was in love with you she wouldn't be doing it for you, she would be doing it because she herself would feel the need to spend more time with you, it would naturally become a priority for her over other needs, and this is clearly not the case. likewise, with my experience with ENFPs - if you're a friend of an ENFP and they are in love, you know about it, they do not do a very good job holding that a secret. again, with her friends this is clearly not the case.

one possibility is that she is outright cheating with you on someone else, another is that she is living in some sort of limbo - broken up with her boyfriend but not telling anyone but one or two, and living as if she isn't.

if you have no problem being her secret friend and fuck buddy, there's no problem there, just don't put all your cards in one place.

however, if you are emotionally involved with her, i have bad news, it doesn't look like she is particularly emotionally involved with you.

 

[CowboyJack]

Thank you all for the replies. I have found out a few things. Her words:

I don't want to be in a relationship
I do dearly love you and think you are an amazing, sensitive and deeply caring person
I love having sex with you
I love hanging out and spending time
I don't want there to be unrealistic expectations
I'm insanely private
We have a pleasant mellow time together
Long distance relationships often just don't work well

So, there it is.