[Fi] Building the wall batween me and other people!

[EndlessNameless]

So I've noticed I have a big problem with openning up to people and with making the first steps in social interaction.
When I am in a new colective, I sit quiet and wait for someone to start the conversation with me. If anyone won't do that, I am capeable of just sitting with grumpy face and cursing the world how unfair it is, that noone noticed me, even though I didn't do anything for make myself more noticable. I just won't stand up and try to make some contact...I just can't do that. I don't speak with anyone, who won't speak with me first. Than...When someone comes to me, and starts the conversation I feel like I start to build this wall around me, despertly stay in my intime and private zone, and I get this pose like..."I don't care about you, because I know you don't care about me". The thing is just...I am extremly afraid of rejection. I feel like everyone judge me and my actions all the time and I am afraid if I open up more, they will also start to judge me more. I keep a distance from everyone...I think to someone it might seem like I am arrogant and selfish. I want to change this! I want to be more open to people. I want to stop building the wall between me and them, but I don't know how. I really feel like I need to get closer to people around me, I just don't know how to beat this 4ish feeling of castaway.

 

[INTP]

Sorry if this sounds obvious, not helpful or what ever bad stuff, but only thing you really can do is to stop doing that :/ . Im definitely not saying that its easy to change this sort of attitude, it just requires you to pay conscious attention to what you are doing and do the opposite even if it feels wrong, stupid, dangerous or what ever.

 

[EndlessNameless]

The thing is just to know how can I stop doing it :-/ ... BTW: [MENTION=7595]INTP[/MENTION] your avatar kinda remindes me on one singer, that I like...I am just corious who is it? I can't see his face :-/

 

[/DG/]

Welcome to my world!

If you really don't know how to make the first steps yourself and you are super serious about this, you could try going to a therapist or counselor or something. I have no idea if they actually help, though.

 

[INTP]

The thing is just to know how can I stop doing it :-/ ... BTW: INTP your avatar kinda remindes me on one singer, that I like...I am just corious who is it? I can't see his face :-/

Max Cavalera

Well first thing you could do is when you notice you are starting to have a grumpy face, try to lose it for example thinking about something funny or other things that brings a smile on your face. Those things you use to build a wall, try to do the opposite when you notice that you start doing it. etc etc. i dont really have much any helpful tips for that, its just things you need to figure on your own or see a therapist if you think its that bad and you arent able to do anything about it. But the thing with this sort of therapy is that its cognitive behavior therapy, which basically just tells you to go to talk to people and not build walls but tries to also convince you that its okay and start with baby steps.

 

[EnflamedHeartofSand]

I understand how you feel. Maybe you feel like you have nothing of value to say to anyone, or that you'll be judged, and found out for being inexperienced, foolish, or whatever it is that you feel can't be expressed to any given stranger. But you shouldn't feel that way. You are a unique individual, in actuality. No one else is you, and has grown up with your exact experiences. Often though, before we are able to recognize the value of our own uniqueness, we have to ultimately accept the value of other people's and not feel like we are in competition with them.
Do you have friends with whom you are totally open and friendly? Has anyone ever initiated a conversation with you? What were they like?

 

[EndlessNameless]

Max Cavalera

Well first thing you could do is when you notice you are starting to have a grumpy face, try to lose it for example thinking about something funny or other things that brings a smile on your face. Those things you use to build a wall, try to do the opposite when you notice that you start doing it. etc etc. i dont really have much any helpful tips for that, its just things you need to figure on your own or see a therapist if you think its that bad and you arent able to do anything about it. But the thing with this sort of therapy is that its cognitive behavior therapy, which basically just tells you to go to talk to people and not build walls but tries to also convince you that its okay and start with baby steps.

yeap...Sepultura. On the picture he actually reminded me on singer from In Flames (if you know the band) . I don't really think it is that bad I'd need a therapist. I have friends, I have my group of people, I don't sit at home and I am not a loner, just the problem is... When I am surrounded by my old and well known friends I feel god and secure and I can make new friends easier. But when I am surrounded by strangers, or I am not around my friends, I feel insecure in social situations and mostly in bigger groups, I just have the boundary that won't let me make the contact...I don't know why and where does it come from. My problem is not, that I wouldn't have friends and social life...I'd say I am the right opossite of this...It is just hard for me to make new friends, I am kinda afraid of people in some way and I mostly can't get involved in social life of bigger groups...like in school.

 

[EndlessNameless]

Max Cavalera

Well first thing you could do is when you notice you are starting to have a grumpy face, try to lose it for example thinking about something funny or other things that brings a smile on your face. Those things you use to build a wall, try to do the opposite when you notice that you start doing it. etc etc. i dont really have much any helpful tips for that, its just things you need to figure on your own or see a therapist if you think its that bad and you arent able to do anything about it. But the thing with this sort of therapy is that its cognitive behavior therapy, which basically just tells you to go to talk to people and not build walls but tries to also convince you that its okay and start with baby steps.

yeap...Sepultura. On the picture he actually reminded me on singer from In Flames (if you know the band) . I don't really think it is that bad I'd need a therapist. I have friends, I have my group of people, I don't sit at home and I am not a loner, just the problem is... When I am surrounded by my old and well known friends I feel god and secure and I can make new friends easier. But when I am surrounded by strangers, or I am not around my friends, I feel insecure in social situations and mostly in bigger groups, I just have the boundary that won't let me make the contact...I don't know why and where does it come from. My problem is not, that I wouldn't have friends and social life...I'd say I am the right opossite of this...It is just hard for me to make new friends, I am kinda afraid of people in some way and I mostly can't get involved in social life of bigger groups...like in school.

 

[Istbkleta]

I feel like everyone judge me and my actions all the time and I am afraid if I open up more, they will also start to judge me more.

Judge you to be what?

 

[SD45T-2]

 

[UniqueMixture]

 

[skylights]

What it is, exactly, that makes you afraid of these people and their rejection?

If they do reject you, what will happen to you? Will it have a very substantial impact on your happiness and self-actualization?

The questions are for your own pondering before I weigh in, but in any case, I feel you.

About people caring - you're right, they don't really care about you. That's a great thing. It means you have a blank slate to create a positive relationship on. It's really all about proximity though - no, strangers don't care, but it's not that they don't want to care. It's just that they don't know you - they have no real concept of "you" - and it's essentially impossible to care about a non-entity. In some vague philosophical way, most people do care about "others", but once people get to know you individually, that's when they care. Just think about seeing someone spilling their bags in the store - as a stranger, you probably feel bad for them in a vague way, but may or may not help because you don't know them. But if you'd just had a conversation with them, of course you would help them. If you were their friend, you would go even more out of your way. It's not because they're not worth caring for when you're a stranger, but there are lots of other things in your life you care about, too, and if you cared deeply about everyone then you wouldn't have very much time left for your loved ones. It's simply too much for any one person to handle.

It's so important to remember that 99% of people who don't know you are essentially neutral in opinion. They don't know you, after all - how could they have an opinion on you? But we have to form judgments about everything to be able to navigate our world, to be able to prioritize and respond, so people form opinions about others based on whatever limited information they have - so people are really going to judge you regardless of whether you choose to engage or not. However, people's opinions of you really aren't as dependent on your own behavior or person as it seems - they're really more about who those people are themselves, and their personal perspectives, since they're filling in all that unknown with personal assumptions.

The other thing is - what if everyone feels like you? I personally have a problem with feeling like I'm infringing on people when I engage in interaction with them - my boyfriend called me out on that recently when I was explaining why I hate calling people on the phone. He said, think about how you feel when someone strikes up a conversation with you, or asks you to hang out. Are you upset? No! Maybe you don't really want to talk right now, or you don't want to hang out, but as long as the other person isn't pushy about forcing you to do something you're not interested in doing, attention is generally flattering. Most people are like you and I, not hyper-competent hyper-successful judgmental people. 4s and 6s both tend to have a native sense of inferiority that's completely illusory, and it makes outsiders seem like they're intimidating. It's so important to keep in mind that is an illusion. They're just struggling individuals trying to make their way in this big world, just like you and me. Now that I'm in my 20s, I have been stunned to see how those "super popular" girls in middle and high school I was always intimidated by have turned out to be completely normal - quirky, even - people that I am really not afraid to talk to anymore, and they even want to talk to me!

I hate rejection too, and I struggle with that, but I've recently really been hit with the hard lesson that people are going to like and dislike you regardless of who you and and what you do... and you just kind of have to accept that there's a possibility - a probability - that some people won't always like you, and there's effectively nothing you can do about that... so there's essentially no use in worrying about them or their opinions. It sucks, but it really says more about them and their personality than it says anything about you. And sometimes there are just bad personality match-ups. I can think of three people off the top of my head that I like well enough in a people-sense, but we do not get along. At all. I wish them a very happy life, far away from me. Regardless, in every case, the best thing you can do is be the best person you can be, and to do whatever makes you happiest - if that's being more open to people, then engage them more, or be more open to engagement.

As for starting out engaging people you don't really know, just a friendly smile and a hello is a good way to start. Then hello and how are you. Sometimes people will give you a more in-depth response to that question - "I'm so tired today!" as opposed to "Fine!". That's a good cue that you can open more conversation - asking questions is an easy way to start, since most people like to talk about themselves - it is, after all, our single easiest point of reference. If they're not responsive, you can always say "it was good talking to you, but I need to head on to ______! Bye!" If they are, then aim for a mutually-interesting subject. Things should flow organically from there.

You have nothing to be afraid of, really. Take the plunge a few times with people you don't care about and will never see again - someone waiting with you in line in a big store on the opposite side of town, for example. The more you do it, the easier it gets.

 

[sulfit]

So I've noticed I have a big problem with openning up to people and with making the first steps in social interaction.
When I am in a new colective, I sit quiet and wait for someone to start the conversation with me. If anyone won't do that, I am capeable of just sitting with grumpy face and cursing the world how unfair it is, that noone noticed me, even though I didn't do anything for make myself more noticable.

Have you determined your instinct stacking? May be you are sx/sp and with secondary self-preservation instinct you would indeed build a wall around yourself.

 

[EndlessNameless]

Have you determined your instinct stacking? May be you are sx/sp and with secondary self-preservation instinct you would indeed build a wall around yourself.

Actually I have to admit I am a little bit confused with my instict stacking. For the first time I've heard of it I thought I am for sure 4w5 so/sp, but now I feel more like sp/so, but I am not sure about the sx. I don't think it's that strong...

 

[Sy_]

I can understand. I too feel like I have built this wall around me and only very few people throughout my life have been allowed past that wall. I also feel like if people really knew me, they would reject me, so I don't give them that chance to do that. I have really struggled with this all of my life. Even on forums, I tend to keep to myself.

 

[entropie]

Communication needs practice. Like you just started talking to intp about sepultura, you could do with others outside. Just ask them about clues you pick up about them and then come into contact and have prolonged chats. At the beginning it requires practice and you'll often feel like you were doing it like a complete idiot, but later on you'll care less about how you come across and grow more confident.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I've had this issue.... It's still really hard for me to initiate with people & cultivate an open, approachable demeanor.

Some advice I've received that helped me:
-Focus on other people, what they say/do, instead of your own inner state. Become absorbed in them. As you do this, you will be more natural. Self-consciousness & self-absorption is killing you right now. Practice being observant of others & your environment & vocalizing positive comments. People like being noticed & talking about themselves. Sometimes all you have to do is make an observation or ask a question.

-Recognize your own feelings as rather universal. Others sometimes also feel awkward, scared of rejection, nervous, invisible, etc, & they say stupid things & make mistakes. You will really see this when you focus more on them rather than amplifying your inner state. Be empathetic towards others & ease their uncomfortableness & fears as you might like someone to do for you. Remember that most are too focused on themselves also to be scrutinizing you.

- People generally don't like someone for their traits so much as how that person makes them feel. They may remember more that you listened to them, took a personal interest in them, made them feel funny/smart/cool more than that you said interesting things and you seemed funny/smart/cool. So this takes a burden off of you. Just be interested.

- I realize there is a vulnerability in the above because as a 4, you may feel your interest in others & your endeavors to connect are unwanted. You may feel too insignificant to feel your attention has any value to others. This is false, and start repeating to yourself that you have something of significance to give to others & that many will be gratified by your attention. When you show interest in others, you are not asking them to confirm you matter, you're confirming that they matter to you. This one is still hard for me to get past; I still almost never initiate because of it. Not projecting my inner critic onto others help. Give yourself more positive inner dialogue & weed out the overly critical feelings towards yourself & you may find you don't feel judged so much by others, which will leave you less inhibited.

- Practice on people who make you feel less vulnerable. Low risk people are often those you may never see again or who have to be nice to you because it's their job . Try people at checkouts in shops, old people, children... people who may get overlooked. This requires being more observant again, which is a great practice for 4s anyhow (get our of your had & feelings). This way, you can polish some social skills in the area of initiating and small talk (necessary evils) without too much humiliation.