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  1. #61
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    If we refer to it as just 'N' we are left without the NF/NT demarcation. How can you call humor dry?
    You want to separate everything huh? Very well... We have "N" for depth/search for meaning... Ni is depth reflected inwards, search for intrinsic meaning within an object, Ne is "depth" directed outwards, search for patterns relating other ideas to an object. Then we throw in F vs T... Those define the area of focus. F is more relational, with people interaction being the heavier focus. T is systematic and objective, more concern with abstract ideas (refering to NT). Then you get interaction of N with F or T... NiFe, finding meaning within an object/relationship and seeking to alter the external environment towards a truer representation (people focused). NiTe, finding meaning/building a system within self and again seeking to alter the external environment closer towards the imagined system (task focused). NeFi, finding patterns relating subject to other ideas, using these patterns to find ways of achieving harmony. NeTi, finding patterns within ideas, then using these connections to build a more complex system.

    I've used way too many generalizations above though... *shrugs* Whatever!

    Dry humor... come on! Surely you know what that is... Dry as your dead-panned "jokes". As much as I hate to admit it, I don't think I can beat you on this one.

  2. #62
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    You want to separate everything huh? Very well... We have "N" for depth/search for meaning... Ni is depth reflected inwards, search for intrinsic meaning within an object, Ne is "depth" directed outwards, search for patterns relating other ideas to an object. Then we throw in F vs T... Those define the area of focus. F is more relational, with people interaction being the heavier focus. T is systematic and objective, more concern with abstract ideas (refering to NT). Then you get interaction of N with F or T... NiFe, finding meaning within an object/relationship and seeking to alter the external environment towards a truer representation (people focused). NiTe, finding meaning/building a system within self and again seeking to alter the external environment closer towards the imagined system (task focused). NeFi, finding patterns relating subject to other ideas, using these patterns to find ways of achieving harmony. NeTi, finding patterns within ideas, then using these connections to build a more complex system.

    I've used way too many generalizations above though... *shrugs* Whatever!

    Dry humor... come on! Surely you know what that is... Dry as your dead-panned "jokes". As much as I hate to admit it, I don't think I can beat you on this one.

    I am saying that we can analyze each function as an atomic unit, not that they can be taken out of the system as a whole. There couldnt be dry humor if we rely on the vernacular definitions of those two words. A sympathetic reading of what you said would be that there was no humor at all.

  3. #63
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I am saying that we can analyze each function as an atomic unit, not that they can be taken out of the system as a whole.
    It's not taken out of the system! If you just want to compare T vs F and N vs S that's fine... but when you go around saying NT seems to be different from ST and NF different from SF... obviously you need to consider 2 functions together... otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.

  4. #64
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    It's not taken out of the system! If you just want to compare T vs F and N vs S that's fine... but when you go around saying NT seems to be different from ST and NF different from SF... obviously you need to consider 2 functions together... otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.

    I never said that this was not the case....we even need to consider a third variable... the synthesis of N and F... this amorphous notion that the theme of NFness could be toned down to.

  5. #65
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I never said that this was not the case....we even need to consider a third variable... the synthesis of N and F... this amorphous notion that the theme of NFness could be toned down to.
    Why do you need to throw in the "amorphous" third variable? You already have one or rather two! Ni vs Ne, Fi vs Fe, Ti vs Te...

  6. #66
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Why do you need to throw in the "amorphous" third variable? You already have one or rather two! Ni vs Ne, Fi vs Fe, Ti vs Te...
    The question was whether or not we can tone down NF to 1 term. It is either this or that we still need 2. Visionary and Compassionate. We could say that these are the two roots, or that they stem from this amorphous entity that I've invoked.

  7. #67
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The question was whether or not we can tone down NF to 1 term. It is either this or that we still need 2. Visionary and Compassionate. We could say that these are the two roots, or that they stem from this amorphous entity that I've invoked.
    I want to scream no... compare INFJ to ENFP... or compare INTP to ENTJ are the two similar? They seem to be almost polar opposite despite being in the same group...

  8. #68
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I want to scream no... compare INFJ to ENFP... or compare INTP to ENTJ are the two similar? They seem to be almost polar opposite despite being in the same group...
    We are talking about the quintissence of the 4 temperaments at this point, nothing else.

  9. #69
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    We are talking about the quintissence of the 4 temperaments at this point, nothing else.
    Probably too late into the night for my mind to be functioning... If you just want four simple terms to describe the temperaments... you can go look them up.

  10. #70
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Probably too late into the night for my mind to be functioning... If you just want four simple terms to describe the temperaments... you can go look them up.
    I am not looking for answers, I am looking for intellectual stimuli and those that Keirsey gave leave us with plenty more work to do.

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