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[ENFP] ENFP versus ENFJ - difference?

alicia91

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Nov 20, 2007
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671
Just trying to figure out my 15-yo daughter. She did some quick online test and came out ENFP but I'm not so sure. I've read the descriptions and frankly they sound very similar to me. I know the function order for each but still...? Any obvious differences?

But then again, sometimes teens surprise you - you don't know them as well as you thought. I saw my daughter's My Space and was quite surprised by several things :shock: However, my parents probably felt the same way about me at that age!
 

Penguin

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ENTP
well, if she keeps spilling out strange ideas like "when i grow up, i want to become the minister of health and rid it of corruption by employing an army of 10 million policemen to survey them", or is the more studious type(likes to know a great many things), gets bored very easily, acts all goofy and things like that, then she is an enfp

dunno how ENFJ's really behave frankly :blush:
 

alicia91

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or is the more studious type(likes to know a great many things), gets bored very easily, acts all goofy and things like that, then she is an enfp

Yeah, she's all those things. Yet she has this side of her that I'm not sure fits in - she can be incredibly dismissive/cold when she perceives that someone has done her wrong or done a friend wrong (even if it's not a big deal). So IMO there is a lot of 'drama' around her. She recently dumped one of her best friends over something fairly trivial (at least to my mind) and because my daughter is the unofficial leader of the group, I'm afraid that this other girl lost most of her friends. Well, they are in highschool and it's none of my business but when I was her age I was definately more easy going about other people. On the exterior, however my daughter is open-minded, casual, and has a slightly 'alternative' vibe. She's also begging for piercings and a tattoo. :steam:
 

Leysing

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Yet she has this side of her that I'm not sure fits in - she can be incredibly dismissive/cold when she perceives that someone has done her wrong or done a friend wrong (even if it's not a big deal).

I smell the rank odour of Fi.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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Apr 23, 2007
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Believe it or not, I think ENFPs have more controlled randomness than ENFJs, it's more of a steady state with ENFPs whereas with ENFJs will be very blendy and camouflagey and then bizarre things will pop out and then they'll return to being average. But it happens frequently enough for you to start questioning sanity but you're not really sure because ENFJs appear very "normal" when they choose to. ENFPs tend to stand out more because of their individuality. I think both types like being in the spotlight, although I think ENFPs tend to recess into themselves a bit more because of Fi.

The ENFPs that I've known aren't flipping out everywhere, but the Ne is so apparent that it is just the way they are. I don't find it weird and I think people become used to that and it's them, the seeming randomness. I've not known any ENFJs for comparison, but camouflaging depends on if they're a Fe-ENFJ or a Ni-ENFJ. Ni-ENFJs don't cover as well and probably come across more like ENFPs. Fe-ENFJs do better cover up but are raving lunatics underneath. ;)

As far as energy levels are concerned, I think they're pretty similar in that regard. I'm a horrible J, so don't look for neatness and procrastination as an indicator but I'm very organized when it comes to people and stockpiling information about them, it gives me a file to pull. ENFJs will be more relationship oriented. ENFPs are probably more openly subversive than ENFJs. If someone gets into an organization and destroys it from the inside out it's probably and ENFJ. ENFPs are muckrakers. They make excellent co-conspirators. Both types are charming but in different ways: I feel like ENFJs are more studied, not canned or anything but focused in the "art of seduction" kind of way. ENFPs seem more candid and honest. I'm doing a horrible job of describing this so forgive me.

Re daughter and dumping people: I'm pretty quick to cut someone and don't really regret it after I'm done. I believe in clean, painless swipes. I do give lots of chances for behavior to improve but if there is no improvement within a designated amount of time I'm out. I think an immature ENFJ will be a "Queen Bee" and get other people to do their dirty work for them so they can remain pure, spotless, and on honor roll. It really depends on the influences on the young ENFJ and how they're maturing. I can see it going lots of ways, the young ENFJ befriending every outcast that seems in need of a friend or being high upon the social totem if their Fe hasn't matured for them to get over that stuff yet.

Any other ENFs like to add their commentary?
 

BookLady

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Mar 30, 2008
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ENFP
she very well could be enfp

Yeah, she's all those things. Yet she has this side of her that I'm not sure fits in - she can be incredibly dismissive/cold when she perceives that someone has done her wrong or done a friend wrong

oh yes! don't get me started! I am this way too if I feel I have been wronged or unjustly treated. I will become totally frozen.

(even if it's not a big deal). So IMO there is a lot of 'drama' around her. She recently dumped one of her best friends over something fairly trivial (at least to my mind) and because my daughter is the unofficial leader of the group, I'm afraid that this other girl lost most of her friends.

Young ENFP's can do this a lot in boyfriend/girlfriend relationships too.

Well, they are in highschool and it's none of my business but when I was her age I was definately more easy going about other people. On the exterior, however my daughter is open-minded, casual, and has a slightly 'alternative' vibe. She's also begging for piercings and a tattoo. :steam:

ENFP's want to stand out and be cool. I, however, had a very structured life with my ISTJ mother and either enfp or isfp or infp father...so I somehow don't think I am a typical ENFP. I wish I understood this introverted feeling stuff better.

Can anyone explain it to me??
 

Algora J

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Believe it or not, I think ENFPs have more controlled randomness than ENFJs, it's more of a steady state with ENFPs whereas with ENFJs will be very blendy and camouflagey and then bizarre things will pop out and then they'll return to being average.

One thing I've noticed about the primary difference in ENFJs and ENFPs is that ENFJs are great organizers who know everyone from a lot of different and varied areas. ENFPs, are charming as they are, often put their foot in their mouths and usually make a spectacle of themselves. They also have a tendency to talk really fast and act nervous around others.
 

alicia91

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Nov 20, 2007
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Thanks everyone! I'm thinking about everything here, but it's still not clear....? I'm leaning a bit to ENFP but it's hard because like a lot of teens I think she's trying hard to be a certain way on the exterior (cool and somewhat 'alternative' - I think it's called Scene) and I don't always think it lines up with who she is on the inside.

I noticed on the career list on Similar Minds that the jobs for both of these types weren't exactly the professional or highly-educated ones. Is there a reason for this? (heck, even the jobs for my type are more studious sounding - engineers, mathematician, etc.).

ENFP -
performer, actor, entertainer, songwriter, musician, filmmaker, comedian, radio broadcaster/dj, some job related to theater/drama, poet, music journalist, work in fashion industry, singer, movie producer, playwright, bartender, comic book author, work in television, dancer, artist, record store owner, model, freelance artist, teacher (art, drama, music), writer, painter, massage therapist, costume designer, choreographer, make up artist
 

Leysing

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FiSi
I noticed on the career list on Similar Minds that the jobs for both of these types weren't exactly the professional or highly-educated ones. Is there a reason for this? (heck, even the jobs for my type are more studious sounding - engineers, mathematician, etc.).

ENFP -
performer, actor, entertainer, songwriter, musician, filmmaker, comedian, radio broadcaster/dj, some job related to theater/drama, poet, music journalist, work in fashion industry, singer, movie producer, playwright, bartender, comic book author, work in television, dancer, artist, record store owner, model, freelance artist, teacher (art, drama, music), writer, painter, massage therapist, costume designer, choreographer, make up artist

They are favored careers. I suppose ENFPs are social beings and they love being around and helping people. They might do very well as scientists (I know one who has worked as a scientist before (and liked it) and now is a teacher because of one her impulsive ENTP husband's impulses :D), but they maybe like people-oriented jobs more.

Maybe. I'm not an ENFP :D
 

wedekit

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Nov 10, 2007
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I thought this might help out:

"ENFP children are 'into everything.' Their natural curiosity results in children for whom questions were invented. They often spend long periods of time devising new and original --- but not necessarily practical --- languages, plays, and scenarios. Many ENFPs enjoy drawing, writing, playacting, and dreaming. They are often chosen as leaders because of their persuasive enthusiasm and their energy for new and different ways of developing things.

ENFP teenagers are agreeable, sociable, outgoing people who like to imagine themselves in the future. They spend many hours wondering and discussing with friends whom they will marry, where they will live, what their children will be like, and what work they will do. They leave no option or possibility unexplored and find it difficult to see themselves in any single job or career."

"ENFJ children want life to be friendly, harmonious, and lively. They are responsible children because they like to please others and meet their needs. In doing for others, they usually find satisfaction for themselves. They are upset by conflict or disharmony. They are pleasant, exuberant and talkative.

ENFJ teenagers are constantly on the go, participating in many, many things. They enjoy a wide variety of activities, not only for that variety but also for the action and opportunity to be with others. They love being involved with friends, clubs, and any activities that let them be with others. ENFJs are often voted most congenial or nicest person in their class. Additionally, they may serve as leaders in their school activities. As students, they are able to focus on the interpersonal spirit or nature of the school and to speak eloquently to others about the school's best values. ENFJs are likable because they notice what is good about people."

I thought I should mention that most ENFJs I know always seem gravitate towards leadership positions, and most ENFPs I know don't.
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
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Oct 5, 2007
Messages
892
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eNFP
Yes, I have a tendency to think an ENFJ would slot into the 'unofficial leader of her group' role easier than an ENFP.

ENFPs have a tendency to be there sometimes, and be absent other times. We're not consistent enough. :p
 

NoMoreFun

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Yeah, she's all those things. Yet she has this side of her that I'm not sure fits in - she can be incredibly dismissive/cold when she perceives that someone has done her wrong or done a friend wrong (even if it's not a big deal). So IMO there is a lot of 'drama' around her. She recently dumped one of her best friends over something fairly trivial (at least to my mind) and because my daughter is the unofficial leader of the group, I'm afraid that this other girl lost most of her friends.

When it comes to freezing the other girl out, I would guess that was more of an ENFP trait as an ENFJ would probably try to resolve the conflict, especially if it was a minor issue.

One the other hand, as already suggested being the leader of the pack would probably be more of an ENFJ thing, as the ENFP is too inconsistent to raise beyond just being popular in the group.


On the exterior, however my daughter is open-minded, casual, and has a slightly 'alternative' vibe. She's also begging for piercings and a tattoo. :steam:

Sounds like ENFP.

Maybe you should try to stack evidence of tell-tale signs of P-ness og J-ness? Is she late for class? Does she clean her room regularly? Does she structure her time or is she always up for a last minute change of plan?

I have developed this theory - completely out of nowhere - that the unspoken approval of others means a lot to ENFPs but oddly enough they somehow always end up doing things the non-mainstream way and thus often stick out a little bit. :huh:

Similarly, ENFJs don't need approval in the same way but for some reason usually complies with the usual way of thing thus seeming more mainstream. I don't know if this theory holds but it something I thought about that seems to be true.

Also, on a last note, a you sure she is ENFx. There is always a risk when people do online tests. Surprisingly many SPs test as Ns. I once heard an ESFP claim he tested as INTJ :shock:
 

Brendan

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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
911
MBTI Type
ENFJ
But then again, sometimes teens surprise you - you don't know them as well as you thought. I saw my daughter's My Space and was quite surprised by several things :shock: However, my parents probably felt the same way about me at that age!

:hug: Seriously. Could you tell that to my mom?
 

Brendan

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ENFJ
Just trying to figure out my 15-yo daughter. She did some quick online test and came out ENFP but I'm not so sure. I've read the descriptions and frankly they sound very similar to me. I know the function order for each but still...? Any obvious differences?
At that age, not really. I took many tests many times all throughout high school starting when I was 15, and my results were so widely varied as INFP, ENFP, INFJ, ENTJ. Actually, ENFJ was the result I got the least, but my tendency then and less so now to answer according to how I wish I were as opposed to how I know I am should only tell you that it's entirely possible that your daughter didn't answer 100% truthfully. She's a teenager, it's rough to be a teenager no matter how easy you have it.
well, if she keeps spilling out strange ideas like "when i grow up, i want to become the minister of health and rid it of corruption by employing an army of 10 million policemen to survey them", or is the more studious type(likes to know a great many things), gets bored very easily, acts all goofy and things like that, then she is an enfp

dunno how ENFJ's really behave frankly :blush:
Yeah, I do all of those things, did all of those things, and I am not an ENFP.
Yeah, she's all those things. Yet she has this side of her that I'm not sure fits in
Lolz. Don't we all. I think I know what you mean though. She's open and honest about her thoughts and feelings, wants and needs but there are some places she won't go?
she can be incredibly dismissive/cold when she perceives that someone has done her wrong or done a friend wrong (even if it's not a big deal). So IMO there is a lot of 'drama' around her.
Understand that in this post I'm trying to relate myself to the information you've given in the hopes that it will give something of a reference point, but I'm not saying that because your daughter and myself at the time share some attributes, she'll turn out to be the same type as me (though it would be desireable :devil:)
I used to have alot of drama circling around me, and I brought it on myself, but was somehow blissfully unaware that I was the one bringing it upon myself. Believe me, I wasn't a bad person, as a matter of fact I was pretty oblivious to the chaos that my ever-changing and volatile emotions caused, but I still cared about people. Now as I get older I'm becoming more and more aware of how in order to care for others, it needs to be shown. I'll have to put aside my arbitrary moral system in favor of my desire to be productive in social interaction. Kind of like the description that ENFJ's will put the concerns of others before their own.

This is extremely vague I know, but I don't really know how to get this across.
She recently dumped one of her best friends over something fairly trivial (at least to my mind) and because my daughter is the unofficial leader of the group, I'm afraid that this other girl lost most of her friends.
That's unfortunate, though I've done that in the past. Thankfully though, I was never an official or unofficial leader of any social circle, so when I decided to cut someone out, they didn't lose all of their friends and I was forced to be around them and make amends because we had mutual friends who wanted to hang out with both of us.

I think it's interesting that she's an unofficial leader though. I'm assuming she hangs out almost exclusively with girls? Being that I'm an F and I hang out almost exclusively with T guys, I've never been in that position. I don't want to say I have authority but I have insites into different aspects of life than my friends do, and I speak up when I feel it's a good move. So within my group I have a unique position because my personality is so different from the others. And it works great :)
Well, they are in highschool and it's none of my business but when I was her age I was definately more easy going about other people. On the exterior, however my daughter is open-minded, casual, and has a slightly 'alternative' vibe. She's also begging for piercings and a tattoo. :steam:
Yeah, I only have my ears pierced, but I want to get a tattoo. It's just going to be writing that says "Is this a dream?" in relatively small text. I could very easily be described in the same way you describe your daughter. I'm open with people and I behave casually, though since I've grown to be accepting of my own differences, I'm seen as strange but very, very approachable. Again, vague, I know. I don't really know how to describe it so if you have any questions that would probably actually help.
 

alicia91

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Nov 20, 2007
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Thanks so much for all the help everyone. :)

Also, on a last note, a you sure she is ENFx. There is always a risk when people do online tests. Surprisingly many SPs test as Ns. I once heard an ESFP claim he tested as INTJ

Yep, I am ISTP and used to always test INTJ ? LOL

She's definately an N. I come from a very SP family and she's really different! For Christmas I gave her the complete works of Edgar Allen Poe, she loves poetry, literature, and all that stuff which didn't interest me at that age. Also she's an A student in everything except history which she claims is the most difficult for her because she can't keep track of a bunch of facts and then remember things sequentially. She's very conceptual and once she learns something she just applies it. Wants to be a journalist.

Maybe you should try to stack evidence of tell-tale signs of P-ness og J-ness? Is she late for class? Does she clean her room regularly? Does she structure her time or is she always up for a last minute change of plan?

P - likes her time unstructured (yet still manages to get it all done when it needs to be - schoolwork)
- her room = complete disaster
- hates routines and often plays before working
- not really goal oriented

J - likes to finish projects
- in the end she is always prepared, never forgets to do homework,

She is very popular with all the adults she encounters. On many occasions she has been asked to speak at our church, deliver the children's sermon, update the congregation on the youth projects etc. At school the teachers all say that they want to adopt her. She was the first kid in her year to win the Student of the Month award, she student mentors two boys in Physics at 6:30 am, she is the head of the JV German club (the teacher just asked her to assist him), she colorguards for the marching band and initially applied to be the Squad Captain even though that's usually for Seniors and Juniors. She ended up pulling her application because she decided to work another summer full-time as a camp counsellor and it would have conflicted. After she did that the Marching Band teacher and the Drum Majors told her that while they understand her decision, they would have picked her to be the first Sophmore Captain in many, many years. What I keep hearing is how very 'inspirational' she is to everyone around her, and also very responsible. Ha - if they could only see the state of her bedroom!

Now that I've thought some more about it, perhaps the incident with the friend she cold-shouldered was a BIG deal to her but as an adult (and SP) I think differently. Basically the cold-shouldered friend as a joke wrote a list of names of kids she suspected to be doing drugs and threw it into a trash can where a teacher found it and turned it in to the principal. A couple of my daughters friends were on the list and apparently they have never touched drugs. My daughters attitude is "what kind of a stupid, unloyal, idiot would do that and besides, half of the names aren't druggies anyhow. How can I trust someone like that?" This girl has apologized and the office didn't contact parents but it makes no difference. Done deal - goodbye. I really like this girl and had hoped that they would patch it up.
 

alicia91

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Nov 20, 2007
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It's funny that the HumanMetrics test is regarded as unreliabe here and on INTP Central. That's the one that keeps typing me INTJ. Still does.

She did the quickie Insight Game and another on Similar Minds which was more extensive and had a scale for each answer. But I'm positive about the ENF part - I've also come to that conclusion from reading Nuture by Nature and just general observation.
 

BookLady

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Mar 30, 2008
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ENFP
betrayal

ENFPS once betrayed have a very hard time every totally trusting that person again.


Thanks so much for all the help everyone. :)



Yep, I am ISTP and used to always test INTJ ? LOL

She's definately an N. I come from a very SP family and she's really different! For Christmas I gave her the complete works of Edgar Allen Poe, she loves poetry, literature, and all that stuff which didn't interest me at that age. Also she's an A student in everything except history which she claims is the most difficult for her because she can't keep track of a bunch of facts and then remember things sequentially. She's very conceptual and once she learns something she just applies it. Wants to be a journalist.



P - likes her time unstructured (yet still manages to get it all done when it needs to be - schoolwork)
- her room = complete disaster
- hates routines and often plays before working
- not really goal oriented

J - likes to finish projects
- in the end she is always prepared, never forgets to do homework,

She is very popular with all the adults she encounters. On many occasions she has been asked to speak at our church, deliver the children's sermon, update the congregation on the youth projects etc. At school the teachers all say that they want to adopt her. She was the first kid in her year to win the Student of the Month award, she student mentors two boys in Physics at 6:30 am, she is the head of the JV German club (the teacher just asked her to assist him), she colorguards for the marching band and initially applied to be the Squad Captain even though that's usually for Seniors and Juniors. She ended up pulling her application because she decided to work another summer full-time as a camp counsellor and it would have conflicted. After she did that the Marching Band teacher and the Drum Majors told her that while they understand her decision, they would have picked her to be the first Sophmore Captain in many, many years. What I keep hearing is how very 'inspirational' she is to everyone around her, and also very responsible. Ha - if they could only see the state of her bedroom!

Now that I've thought some more about it, perhaps the incident with the friend she cold-shouldered was a BIG deal to her but as an adult (and SP) I think differently. Basically the cold-shouldered friend as a joke wrote a list of names of kids she suspected to be doing drugs and threw it into a trash can where a teacher found it and turned it in to the principal. A couple of my daughters friends were on the list and apparently they have never touched drugs. My daughters attitude is "what kind of a stupid, unloyal, idiot would do that and besides, half of the names aren't druggies anyhow. How can I trust someone like that?" This girl has apologized and the office didn't contact parents but it makes no difference. Done deal - goodbye. I really like this girl and had hoped that they would patch it up.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
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INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Just trying to figure out my 15-yo daughter. She did some quick online test and came out ENFP but I'm not so sure. I've read the descriptions and frankly they sound very similar to me. I know the function order for each but still...? Any obvious differences?

But then again, sometimes teens surprise you - you don't know them as well as you thought. I saw my daughter's My Space and was quite surprised by several things :shock: However, my parents probably felt the same way about me at that age!

ENFP is a dominant Extroverted Perceiving type. ENFJ is a dominant Extroverted Judging type. The latter is very systematic about dealings with the external world, and the former is very unstructured.

The ENFP is an Introverted Judging type. Personal values are based on subjective factors. Strictly speaking, it is about what matters to the individual. ENFJ is a dominant Extroverted Judging (again), values primarily orient around the objective factor, in most cases what is valued and what is beneficial for society. This tendency is very distinctly expressed in the ENFJ and hardly at all in the ENFP. Moderately expressed tendency in the ENFP is the earlier described judgment of the Introverted Judgment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ENFP is, as aforementioned, a dominant extroverted perceiving type. This means that the focus of perception is on the external environment. The ENFJ is an introverted perceiving type. The external environment and abstract information about such is collected in relation to how it is valued by the ENFJ. The ENFP can easily have his head spinning collecting all information that there could be whilst the ENFJ only collects what he finds necessary. By the same token, in the paragraph above we see that the ENFJ easily passes judgment on all things whilst the ENFP, as an introverted judger reserves it strictly for things of importance.

That should do it. Let me know if further inquiry is required.
 

alicia91

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Nov 20, 2007
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671
That was very useful information BlueWing. Based on that, and everything else - I'm strongly leaning to ENFP. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that she is basing descisions on what is good for society, it's all personal factors. Other than a few things she takes issue with, she's remarkably open-minded and doesn't pass judgement much at all. And she's so extraverted, that I think we would all know.

ENFPS once betrayed have a very hard time every totally trusting that person again

Yeah, I can see that. She tends to remember things that people did to her years ago.

I think this mystery is cleared up. :)
 
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