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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Fe/Fi and inferiority complexes

Viridian

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So, I've been wondering about this...

A lot of people suffer from inferiority complexes - thinking you're not as good as other people, that you're a burden or a bother to them, that you have nothing to offer, etc. Feelings of envy or resentment, as well as depressive states, may follow. Of course, this isn't necessarily permanent or anything, but it can linger for long periods of time.

Well, here's the thing... Sometimes it seems as if strong Fi users don't really suffer from these complexes, even if they suffer from depression (clinical or otherwise) or are extremely shy. It often sounds, to me, as if they're aware of their own worth, but that they're afraid other people might reject or misunderstand them. In other words, the sorrow comes from them feeling as if no one understands or accepts them, rather than from suspecting their own worthlessness or feeling as if they need to "validate their existence" (or, for that matter, feeling as if they lack a self). That, mind you, doesn't mean I think of them as conceited or self-satisfied; I know for a fact the healthy ones are always open to developing themselves.

Basically, then: is this sort of "internalized worthlessness" more common among Fe types than Fi types? Is there no correlation at all and I'm only seeing things?
 

Totenkindly

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I'm not sure how to comment on that directly, but it did trigger comparisons in my head to Ti vs Te, to evaulate whether there is a similar parallel between Te failing at a task (and thus revealing itself to be incompetent / inadequate) vs Ti failing. Ti can get into a snit because others might not recognize the value of its ideas, but never really doubts its ideas if they conceptually hang together. I'm not sure if Te has the same resilience in the face of repeated external failure(s)...

... still thinking.

Anyway, theoretically, the same patterns should be in play.
 
W

WALMART

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Studying function order, I bred this to be a problem of Si/Ni+Fe users.


Yes, I think it common among IXFJ's.
 
G

Glycerine

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I have an internal struggle with that. It's usually between, "OMG, I am such a b****... I hope the person doesn't hate me" and "Screw you.... I am going to do it my own way... you're a moron" at the same time (dramatic flair, of course... :D).

It makes sense though because Je is geared more towards EXTERNAL standards while Ji geared more towards INTERNAL standards.
 

HongDou

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Yes, I think it common among IXFJ's.

I agree with this. O:

From personal experience, my INFP friend struggles with finding a sense of self-worth. She enters abusive, possessive, & exclusive relationships with people because it makes her feel needed. Even when my friend and I tell her we love her and need her, she still repeats this cycle. Although recently she's been getting better after I got mad at her and called her self-destructive... :D Yay! Guess it was like some sort of wake up call. This isn't Fe or IxFJ, but still relevant. O:

My INFJ friend also struggles with this feeling of worthlessness, but it's usually less self-worth and more just identity confusion in general. .o. He tries to copy my sense of fashion, the way I act, my sexuality (I gave him a lecture about the difference between relationship preferences and physical attraction after that), the way I talk, what I'm interested in, etc. He's the middle child, too and his siblings are much more defined than he is. :( So he definitely has issues revolving around his sense of self-worth/self in general.

Also my ESFJ friend wasn't able to play lacrosse last year due to an injury, and she felt insecure about it as well. D: She was unable to support her team via playing alongside them so she felt a bit worthless. This wasn't as severe though since she's pretty optimistic in general, and she doesn't let this stuff build up inside her since she likes to talk about her problems with me.

So I can see Fe users encountering these issues more! But this is pure speculation on my part. :)
 

Viridian

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Interesting... Looks like I was on to something. :)

Of course, trauma and abuse can really warp someone's psyche, so it's not a hard and fast rule, but it seems to me that Fi (or Ji) users struggle more with issues of expression and acceptance while Fe (or Je) users struggle more with issues of selfhood, boundaries and validation. Is that correct?

(By that system, it does look like I'm an IxFJ after all...)
 

Evo

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Yea, Sounds about right. My Fi just cares about being understood, the ideas are still the same. My Te gets angry to cover up the hurt that my idea failed...or whatever example you wanna use. Cause it cares about external validation, while Fi just keeps walking by.

Te users don't seem to SHOW that they care though.

Fe does.
 

cascadeco

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To the OP, I identify more with your descriptor of Fi-ers; I'm not sure that I've ever felt utterly inferior - at least my core sense of self. I only feel stunted in some social/group situations, and I can feel really alone when I don't feel I connect well with anyone.
 

EJCC

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I'm not sure how to comment on that directly, but it did trigger comparisons in my head to Ti vs Te, to evaulate whether there is a similar parallel between Te failing at a task (and thus revealing itself to be incompetent / inadequate) vs Ti failing. Ti can get into a snit because others might not recognize the value of its ideas, but never really doubts its ideas if they conceptually hang together. I'm not sure if Te has the same resilience in the face of repeated external failure(s)...
I can tell you from repeated personal experience that your instinct is correct. Te failing at a task over and over means that Te can't do the task, that Te can never do the task, that Te is worthless at everything relating to the task... insert downward thought spiral here. And it gets especially bad if Fi links into it too, i.e. if you feel like you've violated your own code of conduct by being unable to do the task. There's never a loss of identity, like [MENTION=12223]Viridian[/MENTION] was suggesting with Fe, but there is a loss of confidence to the point of losing identity, if you identify yourself based on your skills.
 

INTP

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My INFP friend has pretty strong inferiority complex about rational/logical thinking. It doesent help that our friend circle since 7th grade was him, me, INTJ(currently his roommate and, well INTJs can be pretty damn demanding on others doing things to their standards, in which the INFP fails all the time and gets to hear about it) and ENTP, and later he became good friends with two ESTJs(one still his friend, but doesent hang out with him often). He has other friends too, but not very close to them. Also hes on pretty strong psyche meds, which also doesent help much.. He has difficult time learning things and doesent want to push his limits at all in developing himself(except now he quitted smoking and is trying to eat more healthy and lose weight, for like 10th time this year, but doing better now than with his earlier attempts, which made him feel like a failure for not being able to resist urges of eating crap).
 

Chiharu

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That makes sense to me. I have a fairly good idea of where my strengths and weaknesses lie, and even at my lowest i can find good qualities about myself. My IxTP just collapses under a general sense of worthlessness.
 

typologywhore

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Just read the OP atm, but will go back over other responses in more detail later.

Thinking you're not as good as other people, that you're a burden or a bother to them, that you have nothing to offer, etc. Feelings of envy or resentment, as well as depressive states, may follow.
Basically, then: is this sort of "internalized worthlessness" more common among Fe types than Fi types? Is there no correlation at all and I'm only seeing things?

^Uh. Yuh. This, the bolded absolutely. lol~ #awkward

have recurrent depressive disorder, generalised anxiety &social anxiety (though am slightly ambivalent about the "labelling" of a certain state in this way, because it seems to imply its permanence) ; &this strain of thinking is very common for me. i definitely envy people who are like how i [kinda] aspire to be - look like i wish i looked, are well-known&at the centre of in the social scene/community/group etc i care about. The resentment is there, i thiiiink, but it's not conscious; some superego-esque part of me has decided resentment towards others is "not allowed" or "bad" or something to that effect. &the thoughts about being a bother/inconveniencing people are very common when dealing with other people, especially those i feel i don't know very well. (Interestingly, it's not a problem when i really "click" with someone though; then i'm just completely absorbed in the interaction, and have a sense of equality and connection/unity with the other person/people. Don't experience this nearly as much as i'd like, though, because social anxiety. . _. )

*slightly painful-to-acknowledge side note (..uh, yay..): a significant amount of this thinking may stem from being trans* [="transgender", as the general population usually knows it as]; thoughts like "no one will ever love me [bc of possessing a non-normative identity/body]", "i'm inferior/worthless [because of not fitting into binary gender roles/because i don't appear in physical terms like the person i (feel i?) am]" have substantial force.
 

Viridian

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Just read the OP atm, but will go back over other responses in more detail later.



^Uh. Yuh. This, the bolded absolutely. lol~ #awkward

have recurrent depressive disorder, generalised anxiety &social anxiety (though am slightly ambivalent about the "labelling" of a certain state in this way, because it seems to imply its permanence) ; &this strain of thinking is very common for me. i definitely envy people who are like how i [kinda] aspire to be - look like i wish i looked, are well-known&at the centre of in the social scene/community/group etc i care about. The resentment is there, i thiiiink, but it's not conscious; some superego-esque part of me has decided resentment towards others is "not allowed" or "bad" or something to that effect. &the thoughts about being a bother/inconveniencing people are very common when dealing with other people, especially those i feel i don't know very well. (Interestingly, it's not a problem when i really "click" with someone though; then i'm just completely absorbed in the interaction, and have a sense of equality and connection/unity with the other person/people. Don't experience this nearly as much as i'd like, though, because social anxiety. . _. )

*slightly painful-to-acknowledge side note (..uh, yay..): a significant amount of this thinking may stem from being trans* [="transgender", as the general population usually knows it as]; thoughts like "no one will ever love me [bc of possessing a non-normative identity/body]", "i'm inferior/worthless [because of not fitting into binary gender roles/because i don't appear in physical terms like the person i (feel i?) am]" have substantial force.

Ah, yes, of course, my hard-and-fast "rule" could very well be skewed if we include the internalized discrimination of minorities, which is pretty pervasive and sociologically tangled in contrast with my original intent. I didn't assume systematic discrimination as a cause of low self-confidence, 'cuz that's a whole 'nother story, although it might also play into type preferences...
 

Seymour

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I'm been mulling this over, and here's my take:

I think any type can have an inferiority complex (or suffer from feelings of being inadequate, worthless, etc), but it can look different from the outside. There's a way in which Fi looks proudly ego-centric from other perspectives, but that's not the necessarily the subjective experience.

Like Ti users who have to think things out for themselves, Fi users have to "feel things out" for themselves. That is, the values and evaluations have to hang together in a coherent or harmonious way (just as for Ti users the logic of things has to hang together). It's not enough for someone just to say that something is good/important/meaningful, an Fi user has to know for themselves (again, parallel with Ti and determining if something is true/correct).

So, in a certain kind of way, this can come off as a sort of egocentric self-confidence ("Why do you think you are more-moral/smarter/whatever than other people?"). However, that doesn't have much to do with a high self-evaluation of worth or high confidence.

FPs still suffer if they don't live up to their own values—even when those values aren't shared by others. In fact, an FP may have unreasonably high standards that the surrounding society might (often correctly) dismiss as ridiculous or unworkable. This seems to be a common cause of depression for young NFPs, who may experience a huge gap between their vision and the reality around them. This mismatch can be especially emotionally trying when one's self doesn't measure up and falls far short of how things SHOULD be.

FJs tend to be more practical and ends-driven (typically in a nurturing kind of way), and have the advantage of that practicality and a tendency to select from the available time-tested and reality-tested values around them. They may take a stand against a particular social practice or value, but they do so with a better grip on the social feasibility (and costs) of their stance.

Clearly both Fi users and Fe users can think themselves superior, but the Fe version comes across as a nicer sounding "my values of my group/family/organization are the best, and as a member/protector of that group, the group's high, clearly functional values are reflected in me and my actions... don't be selfish and stand against them, you rude disruptive person." The Fi version is more "my individual values are the best, so don't oppress me, you immoral unfeeling person, with society's flawed values/practicalities/logic." In both cases, there can be a blindness to how a big a role self-interest can play in one's actions.
 

Viridian

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I'm been mulling this over, and here's my take:

I think any type can have an inferiority complex (or suffer from feelings of being inadequate, worthless, etc), but it can look different from the outside. There's a way in which Fi looks proudly ego-centric from other perspectives, but that's not the necessarily the subjective experience.

Like Ti users who have to think things out for themselves, Fi users have to "feel things out" for themselves. That is, the values and evaluations have to hang together in a coherent or harmonious way (just as for Ti users the logic of things has to hang together). It's not enough for someone just to say that something is good/important/meaningful, an Fi user has to know for themselves (again, parallel with Ti and determining if something is true/correct).

So, in a certain kind of way, this can come off as a sort of egocentric self-confidence ("Why do you think you are more-moral/smarter/whatever than other people?"). However, that doesn't have much to do with a high self-evaluation of worth or high confidence.

FPs still suffer if they don't live up to their own values—even when those values aren't shared by others. In fact, an FP may have unreasonably high standards that the surrounding society might (often correctly) dismiss as ridiculous or unworkable. This seems to be a common cause of depression for young NFPs, who may experience a huge gap between their vision and the reality around them. This mismatch can be especially emotionally trying when one's self doesn't measure up and falls far short of how things SHOULD be.

FJs tend to be more practical and ends-driven (typically in a nurturing kind of way), and have the advantage of that practicality and a tendency to select from the available time-tested and reality-tested values around them. They may take a stand against a particular social practice or value, but they do so with a better grip on the social feasibility (and costs) of their stance.

Clearly both Fi users and Fe users can think themselves superior, but the Fe version comes across as a nicer sounding "my values of my group/family/organization are the best, and as a member/protector of that group, the group's high, clearly functional values are reflected in me and my actions... don't be selfish and stand against them, you rude disruptive person." The Fi version is more "my individual values are the best, so don't oppress me, you immoral unfeeling person, with society's flawed values/practicalities/logic." In both cases, there can be a blindness to how a big a role self-interest can play in one's actions.

I think you articulated the issues I was aiming at very well here! Maybe the phrase "inferiority complex" is somewhat dicey here, I'll admit - I wasn't able to think of any other way to put it, basically. The idea I was going for was the FPs - or Fi users as a whole - being more trusting of their "inner compass" even when depressed or distraugh, while FJs would be mistrustful or ashamed of their own feelings or values - or just plain not being able to discern them - and thus prone to latch unto external ones, which was more along the lines of what I saw as low self-esteem. I admit I'm biased here. ^^;

Alos, I apologize if I implied FPs were "ego-centric". Love you guys. :sorry:
 
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