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[ENFJ] ENFJ and ISTP--how can that work?

grendiecat

New member
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
51
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I've read this can be a good match, but don't understand it. Understand the complementary qualities stuff, but how can an ENFJ need for verbal and other validation work in the context of the ISTP hesitancy to give emotional feedback? ENFJ = let me throw it all out there and ISTP = let me throw little out there emotionally. How does that work?
 

Griffi97

New member
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Dec 14, 2007
Messages
124
MBTI Type
INFJ
My sister is an ENFJ, married to an ISTP. I would say, in short, that it doesn't work... They both seem pretty miserable. He's basically a good guy, but he admits he's all about himself. She nags him constantly and doesn't seem to have any of her basic needs satisfied. Not pretty to be around, very sad, especially because they have a 4 year old little girl.
 

chris1207

New member
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
467
MBTI Type
XNXX
Enneagram
3w2
The idea is that each of them is supposed to step outside of their comfort zone just a little so that they can understand someone completely unlike themselves. Love is suppose to provide a bigger comfort zone for such understanding to occur. :) That's how it supposed to happen anyway!

Any ENFJ's here date an INTP BTW? Keirsey says it's an awesome combo but I can't say I've ever been cognoscent of a girl who was an INTP. Sure it's not ISTP but it's close.

Also, I have a friend who's an INTJ who's involved with an ESFP. Maybe I'll get into that later on in this topic. Later
 

Brendan

Guerilla Urbanist
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
911
MBTI Type
ENFJ
The idea is that each of them is supposed to step outside of their comfort zone just a little so that they can understand someone completely unlike themselves. Love is suppose to provide a bigger comfort zone for such understanding to occur. :) That's how it supposed to happen anyway!

Any ENFJ's here date an INTP BTW? Keirsey says it's an awesome combo but I can't say I've ever been cognoscent of a girl who was an INTP. Sure it's not ISTP but it's close.

Also, I have a friend who's an INTJ who's involved with an ESFP. Maybe I'll get into that later on in this topic. Later
One of my closest friends is an INTP. When we work towards understanding eachother, we get along great.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
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4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
The idea is that each of them is supposed to step outside of their comfort zone just a little so that they can understand someone completely unlike themselves. Love is suppose to provide a bigger comfort zone for such understanding to occur. :) That's how it supposed to happen anyway!

Any ENFJ's here date an INTP BTW? Keirsey says it's an awesome combo but I can't say I've ever been cognoscent of a girl who was an INTP. Sure it's not ISTP but it's close.

Also, I have a friend who's an INTJ who's involved with an ESFP. Maybe I'll get into that later on in this topic. Later

Then you've come to the right place. We have INTP gals galore. Rowdy bunch. :D

Yes I've dated INTPs.

And as to the original question, yes I've dated ISTPs. You have to get the right kind though. The way I see it, most personality types are divided into two groups: the curious and the incurious. The incurious of any type makes a boring, sedative or worst case, destructive/selfish relationship. You will never ever be able to get them past their personal threshold. The curious type will venture forth and really get into you, and doesn't see his/her backyard as the be-all/end-all.

I will say this: If you're an N and you date an S, please be advised that this person's views and perceptions are just as valid as yours, and trying to make them "N" is going to be an action greatly resented. Vice versa. If you go out to date your shadow, keep that in the front of your mind, and be aware that you'll ALWAYS have to be open in order to make the relationship work. If you're not comfortable being that exposed, don't do it. If you are, then God bless you both.
 

StephMC

Controlled Mischief
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
1,044
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Phew... absolutely no way. My ENFJ brother have fought like cats and dogs since day 1. So our relationship now basically consists of my avoiding him and not opening my mouth if he's anywhere near me just to dodge the potential fight (that goes no where). Also, there's an ENFJ in my group of friends... while we get along on the surface, I really struggle being around him... and I'm pretty flexible with most types of people. I'm not sure how he feels, but I'm sure I'm not on the top of his list of people to date either.

Maybe it works better with an ISTP guy and an ENFJ girl? Not sure, but I really don't think it works for an ISTP girl and ENFJ guy...
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
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eNFJ
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4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think the male-female energy balance is important, and as you point out, doesn't always work as well both ways.
 

mwv6r

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Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
208
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Hello, I posted the previous thread on opposites and according to that guy's research (website LoveType), there are gender constraints with most pairings but ISTP+ENFJ is a rare pairing that does not have gender constraints. Male ISTP + female ENFJ or female ISTP + male ENFJ are supposed to both have high rates of success. (See LoveTypes ISTP Love Tips). In contrast, with most other types the success rates are higher when the female is the F and the male is the T (at least according to this research). For example, female INFJ + male ESTP is supposed to work but not vice versa. (This book is pretty old though, I wonder if as gender roles become more progressive, gender will be less of a factor; i.e., men and women will become more comfortable with males who are more nurturing and females who are less nurturing.)

Theoretically, I would actually picture female ISTP + male ENFJ working better, because I think that in many personality types in which feeling is in the third or fourth position, females of the type often have less of a hard edge than males of the type simply because women are typically socialized to take on some feeler traits regardless of whether they are naturally F or T. Male ISTP + female ENFJ seems like it would be a wider chasm to cross.

Having said all that, my sister is an ISTP, I'm an INFJ, and for years we fought like cats and dogs. Recently we have gotten along better but still aren't close. I'm just extroversion away from being an ENFJ, and I have a lot of trouble imagining dating someone similar to my sister, and I'm sure she'd say the same of me. ISTPs have many wonderful traits (child-like enjoyment of life, athleticism, natural curiosity, mechanical dexterity, humor, etc.), but I would picture NFs in general and ENFJs/INFJs in particular having trouble with the emotional-unavailability piece.... I'm very curious to read success stories though. Obviously it's working for some people.

One more thought -- I date an ESTP and that does work very well. That's only extroversion away from being an ISTP. So maybe for ENFJs the pieces end up falling together well for a good match with the ISTP. For ESTPs feeling is tertiary whereas for ISTPs feeling is in the fourth position (their blindspot). I know that my ESTP partner often seems baffled by other people's emotionality and sensitivity, perhaps even as baffled by those things as is my ISTP sister. But the difference is that since he's an extrovert he gets more practice playing the "feeling game" than she does. Sometimes he'll come home from work and proudly tell me about how a customer was giving a sob story about something or another and he felt very little empathy but successfully pretended to empathize. The ISTP would probably be less inclined to feign empathy for the sake of social etiquette. Also, although my ESTP has his thinker persona on most of the time, there are moments when he is a big softie and will get teary eyed at sad movies or be very romantic (tertiary feeling coming through?). I wonder if many ISTPs have similar moments? (Haven't observed anything similar with my ISTP sister, although I know that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.)
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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sp/sx
Not to hi-jack....but what about an INFP female and ISTP male?
Particularly if the female tests high on thinking for an INFP and the male seems to have a well-developed Fe?
:whistling:
 

A Schnitzel

WTF is this dude saying?
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,155
MBTI Type
INTP
Not to hi-jack....but what about an INFP female and ISTP male?
Particularly if the female tests high on thinking for an INFP and the male seems to have a well-developed Fe?
:whistling:

Just send him a drunk text message: "do u want 2 huk up"

I can guarantee you will have a good time. :yes:

EDIT: That's at least how all my ISTP friends relationships have started.
 

mwv6r

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Nov 22, 2008
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208
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INFJ
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4w5
One of my good friends is a female INFP, and she just got out of a relationship with an ISTP. From her accounts, it was a very frustrating match because she felt he was emotionally unavailable. She just didn't feel her emotional needs were met. I've read somewhere that relationships are difficult when the two outer letters (in the case above, I and P) are the same, and the two inner letters are different. Who knows though, I'm sure it all depends on the individual. An ISTP with well-develop Fe is pretty impressive, a type's blindspot is usually not developed until late life.
 

Bamboo

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Jan 28, 2009
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Hello, I posted the previous thread on opposites and according to that guy's research (website LoveType), there are gender constraints with most pairings but ISTP+ENFJ is a rare pairing that does not have gender constraints. Male ISTP + female ENFJ or female ISTP + male ENFJ are supposed to both have high rates of success. (See LoveTypes ISTP Love Tips). In contrast, with most other types the success rates are higher when the female is the F and the male is the T (at least according to this research). For example, female INFJ + male ESTP is supposed to work but not vice versa. (This book is pretty old though, I wonder if as gender roles become more progressive, gender will be less of a factor; i.e., men and women will become more comfortable with males who are more nurturing and females who are less nurturing.)

Thing is, I've seen a statistic somewhere else on this site that something like 33% of intra-STP relationships work well, and this guy is advocating ESTPs and other ISTPs as good matches for ISTP. That's not totally encouraging, but MBTI is kinda silly in any case.

However, his suggestions on how to "win the heart" of the types - although stereotyped, are basically sound.

ENFJs are usually interesting people, but in the long term we clash. The ones I've known I regarded as interesting, organized, and serious. They seem to like me because I do things they wouldn't. And then I break some rule, and they don't like me all of a sudden or become indifferent (or at least act that way). Of course, this is just my experience.

Not to hi-jack....but what about an INFP female and ISTP male?
Particularly if the female tests high on thinking for an INFP and the male seems to have a well-developed Fe?
:whistling:

Sure, go for it. MBTI won't tell you. He will. Just tell him you want to 'hang out.' No need to be shy about it. Not like INFPs are ever shy or anything...

Just send him a drunk text message: "do u want 2 huk up"

I can guarantee you will have a good time. :yes:

EDIT: That's at least how all my ISTP friends relationships have started.

Basically true.

Every single one of my "relationships" (I guess we can use that word) have consisted of girls I have mild association with just coming up to me and letting me know (or, in a couple cases, letting me know through a friend) that they are 'interested' or that I should 'hang out sometime.'

The drunk ones are annoying actually. Don't proposition drunk - I would (and have) push you away.

I actually want a girlfriend, mostly because I've never had one. Like, take her out to dinner (done that...twice?), having the title "boyfriend", uh...whatever else comes along with having a girlfriend. Yeah, I'm clueless.

I don't know if I ACTUALLY want a girlfriend. I just think it would be nice to know what everyone is raving/ranting about.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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Mar 20, 2009
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INFP
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4w5
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sp/sx
Sure, go for it. MBTI won't tell you. He will. Just tell him you want to 'hang out.' No need to be shy about it. Not like INFPs are ever shy or anything...

Every single one of my "relationships" (I guess we can use that word) have consisted of girls I have mild association with just coming up to me and letting me know (or, in a couple cases, letting me know through a friend) that they are 'interested' or that I should 'hang out sometime.'

The drunk ones are annoying actually. Don't proposition drunk - I would (and have) push you away.

haha....well, yes, I am painfully shy. I have been more forward with him than I usually am with guys (but I am becoming a more balanced person too as I age). I told him I'd like to hang out more, but his strong need of tons of space/independence means I don't hear from him often. Between that and the S & N communication obstacle, I wonder if it's even a good idea. But sometimes you cannot help who you find attractive...:blush:

I am NOT the kind to get drunk either, much less "proposition" things through text....:nerd: :cheese:
 

jarecare85

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Apr 20, 2009
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1
MBTI Type
istp
ISTP + ENFJ - Match Made In Heaven!

I am a male ISTP and my girlfriend is an ENFJ. We have been dating for over a year and 6 months and things are going great!!! We truly are complete opposites and of course fight now and then, but we respect each other and always get through things. We always learn something from each other and are always pushing each other to be better people in all different aspects.

Honestly, it's really hard sometimes but the biggest thing that we've both learned is that communication is the only thing that will keep you together - which can be especially hard for me sometimes.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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Nov 5, 2007
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sx/so
This thread makes me miss my ISTP bff. Makes me hate him a lot too for screwing up his life.

People.
 

maliafee

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Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
1,127
I'm confused why people would want to get into a relationship with a type so different from them. Relationships are difficult enough. If an ISTP has to work that hard to please/understand an ENFJ, that ISTP is not likely to stick around long (or if they do, they'll probably check out completely). An ENFJ not getting his/her needs met constantly nags and tries to force the situation by criticism, and that will NOT work with an ISTP. Additionally, ENFJ's can see sex as a problem if not "emotional" enough, and an ISTP's sex is almost purely physical.

A horrible match, imo.
 

maliafee

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Messages
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I am a male ISTP and my girlfriend is an ENFJ. We have been dating for over a year and 6 months and things are going great!!! We truly are complete opposites and of course fight now and then, but we respect each other and always get through things. We always learn something from each other and are always pushing each other to be better people in all different aspects.

Honestly, it's really hard sometimes but the biggest thing that we've both learned is that communication is the only thing that will keep you together - which can be especially hard for me sometimes.

I just read this post after MY post. WOW. I'm impressed. I bet the girl has to be ENFJ for this to work, though... I still think the pairing is usually pretty problematic.
 

alexx

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Dec 30, 2008
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503
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ENFP
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2w1
Wouldnt this be similar to a ENFP / ISTJ relationship?
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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sx/so
I'm confused why people would want to get into a relationship with a type so different from them. Relationships are difficult enough. If an ISTP has to work that hard to please/understand an ENFJ, that ISTP is not likely to stick around long (or if they do, they'll probably check out completely). An ENFJ not getting his/her needs met constantly nags and tries to force the situation by criticism, and that will NOT work with an ISTP. Additionally, ENFJ's can see sex as a problem if not "emotional" enough, and an ISTP's sex is almost purely physical.

A horrible match, imo.


It's not so much the difference when you're practically the same, only in reverse. I never felt like I was working to understand my ex. That was the beauty of it really.

When an ISTP is "engaged" with you, I've found them way more open and emotional than INTPs (who seem to hold back from me like I'm going to eat them).

But when bad, I think shadow pairings can possibly be the absolute worst thing ever. I don't recommend them - simply because most people want to be selfish and jerk each other around rather than be respectful and honest.
 
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