[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Suicide okey dokey ??

[unityemissions]

The act is unhealthy.. but why does it matter so much to you to label it good or bad? What metric do you intend to use it for? To decide how you feel about the person afterwards? To decide if he did a bad thing? The sickness is bad, not the person.

You're totally missing the point. This is a matter of morals, an intellectual discussion. Does that not have merit in and of itself? Damned I'm starting to get the impression that I'm not a feeler after all this. The only decent responses I see are from the thinkers.

Is it to discourage people from committing suicide? They already know there is something very wrong and it overrides their will to live, what does it matter if you say it's bad?

Woman, I can't tell this person who is dead that they are bad. I don't judge people as good or bad. It's so incredibly simplistic that it disgusts me to think like this. This is about the act of suicide, and if it's okay or not. I'm interested to see how people feel about the issue. If they feel it's selfish, or selfless. If they think it's a personal decision that should be respected, or if it disgusts the person and they think it's shameful.

 

[Anew Leaf]

You're totally missing the point. This is a matter of morals, an intellectual discussion. Does that not have merit in and of itself? Damned I'm starting to get the impression that I'm not a feeler after all this. The only decent responses I see are from the thinkers.



Woman, I can't tell this person who is dead that they are bad. I don't judge people as good or bad. It's so incredibly simplistic that it disgusts me to think like this. This is about the act of suicide, and if it's okay or not. I'm interested to see how people feel about the issue. If they feel it's selfish, or selfless. If they think it's a personal decision that should be respected, or if it disgusts the person and they think it's shameful.

This thread is going places.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION]

Thank you for the first decent reply in the thread, IMO.

I think people should realize that some people have incredibly horrible situations, like the one you described #2. The people who are saying, "it's stupid" are simply naive or idiotic, IMO.

I also think the first situation may be reason enough for some who are so unstable/insane that they truly won't get through the breakup. Say an uber dork that never gets laid, until he does, but she leaves him and he's left with this lingering notion that he'll never get laid and be loved again. It's too much to bare, so he does the deed.

Well thank you for the positive feedback.

 

[Qlip]

You're totally missing the point. This is a matter of morals, an intellectual discussion. Does that not have merit in and of itself? Damned I'm starting to get the impression that I'm not a feeler after all this. The only decent responses I see are from the thinkers.



I can't tell this person who is dead that they are bad. I don't judge people as good or bad. It's so incredibly simplistic that it disgusts me to think like this. This is about the act of suicide, and if it's okay or not. I'm interested to see how people feel about the issue. If they feel it's selfish, or selfless. If they think it's a personal decision that should be respected, or if it disgusts the person and they think it's shameful.

Well, it's just as simplistic to ask people to label the act as good or bad because the answer is known. The answer is simple.. people killing themselves is bad. Suicide is cutting a life short. There are situations where people feel compelled to do unfortunate things. The situations themselves are the things to be addressed and discussed.

 

[unityemissions]

[MENTION=10714]Qlip[/MENTION]

I'm doing my best to keep cool, and digest what you wrote. I'm now pretty damned sure I'm not a dominant Fi, or even aux...I can't find myself looking at situations as "good" or "bad" ...at all. I see too many things combining to create reality and each act within it. Good/Bad seems to be...incredibly limiting. That's just me, though. You seem to do well within this system. I guess it provides shortcuts for you to maneuver through life. Instead of trying to deeply understand something, it's just a black and white "good" or "bad". Gotcha.

Now I'm back to the drawing board on what the hell my type is.

Guess I'll go to a more intellectual board and ask this question. Thanks anyways!

 

[Tantive]

Suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem. The issue changes when your problems are permanent.

 

[King sns]

(Idly walks around in circles instead)

 

[Anew Leaf]

(Idly walks around in circles instead)

*follows you in an non-intellectual manner*

 

[Qlip]

[MENTION=10714]Qlip[/MENTION]

I'm doing my best to keep cool, and digest what you wrote. I'm now pretty damned sure I'm not a dominant Fi, or even aux...I can't find myself looking at situations as "good" or "bad" ...at all. I see too many things combining to create reality and each act within it. Good/Bad seems to be...incredibly limiting. That's just me, though. You seem to do well within this system. I guess it provides shortcuts for you to maneuver through life. Instead of trying to deeply understand something, it's just a black and white "good" or "bad". Gotcha.

Now I'm back to the drawing board on what the hell my type is.

Guess I'll go to a more intellectual board and ask this question. Thanks anyways!

I agree with you, I sensed no Fi. If I had to guess, you're initial response to me was Ti, and there's a lot of Fe from where you're coming from. I'd go with INTP or ENTP for you.

I don't think you begin to understand where I'm coming from. When I say good and bad, there is a certain perspective involved, in this case it's from the individual comitting suicide.. it is anything but black and white. There is also good and bad from a societal point of view, and good and bad for the environment.

But, from within the framework where only an individual can choose to continue living, only the individual perception really matters to me. From the individual's point of view, the very deepest impulse to live has been dampened. An act of suicide is the ultimate act of helplessness. This is why situation matters so much, because the person is subject to the situation out of their control.

 

[King sns]

*follows you in an non-intellectual manner*

(turns around to go counterclockwise and bumps into Saturned) You didn't follow the rules!

 

[Anew Leaf]

(turns around to go counterclockwise and bumps into Saturned) You didn't follow the rules!

*cannot comprehend what time has to do with wisdom or counters*

 

[unityemissions]

I agree with you, I sensed no Fi. If I had to guess, you're initial response to me was Ti, and there's a lot of Fe from where you're coming from. I'd go with INTP or ENTP for you.

Thank you for the analysis. I'm thinking the same now. xNTP for sure.

I don't think you begin to understand where I'm coming from. When I say good and bad, there is a certain perspective involved, in this case it's from the individual comitting suicide.. it is anything but black and white. There is also good and bad from a societal point of view, and good and bad for the environment.

Finally, you're actually speaking on a level I can comprehend! Naw, I get you. I just shy away from that kind of terminology. Think: God. I just don't do terms like this. I agree that there is an individual, environmental, and social level which must be assessed. I also think it would be best to specifically say why you are for or against something in detail when dealing with a complex situation like this..not just a "good" or "bad", but that's just me.

But, from within the framework where only an individual can choose to continue living, only the individual perception really matters to me. From the individual's point of view, the very deepest impulse to live has been dampened. An act of suicide is the ultimate act of helplessness. This is why situation matters so much, because the person is subject to the situation out of their control.

See, I don't see it like that. In my view, the individual IS taking control of their life situation. Perhaps some fear death and are helpless as you describe, but in other instances I see it like an act of courage. You can't control your surroundings (entirely), but you can control yourself. You can choose to be done with this world. So be it.

 

[unityemissions]

*cannot comprehend what time has to do with wisdom or counters*

damned, how old are you? is this place meant for teens or something?

 

[gromit]

I do think it is kind of a selfish thing to do.

But then again, the people who do it are often not thinking clearly at the time due to depression or other issues. It is sad that anyone gets to the point in their life when they feel or think that is really the best option...

 

[Anew Leaf]

damned, how old are you? is this place meant for teens or something?

I dwell where time cannot tell an answer to a question not asked.

 

[Qlip]

Thank you for the analysis. I'm thinking the same now. xNTP for sure.



Finally, you're actually speaking on a level I can comprehend! Naw, I get you. I just shy away from that kind of terminology. Think: God. I just don't do terms like this. I agree that there is an individual, environmental, and social level which must be assessed. I also think it would be best to specifically say why you are for or against something in detail when dealing with a complex situation like this..not just a "good" or "bad", but that's just me.



See, I don't see it like that. In my view, the individual IS taking control of their life situation. Perhaps some fear death and are helpless as you describe, but in other instances I see it like an act of courage. You can't control your surroundings (entirely), but you can control yourself. You can choose to be done with this world. So be it.

That's a different way of thinking about it, I agree it's an act of asserting power. But it's also helplessness in the way the person only sees one option instead of staying alive to persue others. Anyway, I'm glad I could help you with the typology.. and maybe show that it's possible for someone to actually be offering something of value even if it isn't communicated in the form you're used to.

 

[unityemissions]

I dwell where time cannot tell an answer to a question not asked.

yet you responded.



unless you're trying to say I wasn't being open minded. If so, go fuck yourself, troll.

 

[cafe]

I think it's sad that someone would be in a position where that looked like a good choice, but it's not a foreign sentiment to me.

I think terminally ill people should have the legal right to end their own lives if they want to.

I'd feel betrayed if someone I cared about made that decision without first offering me the opportunity to help them or get them help and I wouldn't be above contacting the authorities to have them put in 72 hour observation if they didn't have what I considered a crazy good reason for wanting to off themselves. Because I'm selfish.

I'd be afraid to try it myself, because I might mess up and end up spending the rest of my life on life support or something.

 

[chickpea]

i think it's up to the individual, i mostly just don't see the point of deciding whether or not it was right or justified or putting limits on what "acceptable" suicide is. there's no real measure of suffering, it's not for us to say what someone should be able to live with or not.

 

[kyuuei]

If I had to live one turn of the earth with such a perspective, I'd do something stupid.

I'm sure you do stupid things regardless of what perspective you have. It's in human nature.

To elaborate, since I'm at a proper computer now, I don't have an opinion on the issue. It is beyond my understanding. I'm not a suicide counselor because I would not know how to help anyone in that situation. I tend to just accept that it is something I know nothing about and shove it off to the people who do. Should I encounter someone needing assistance, I would simply request assistance because I would be of none barring physically restraining them.

I find the concept of suicide a stupid thing that I don't mess with in any way, shape, or form. I don't think less of the people who have attempted it, I wish them the best and I hope they choose not to do so or that they end up living and getting help in some way, shape or form. Just like I hope someone with an illness gets well. I don't think anything of a person with an illness good or bad, simply that they recover from that illness. But I still disdain the illness itself, and the concept of it.