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[Fi] Fi in an ENFP, using How to train your dragon, spoiler alert

Amargith

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Warning, spoiler alert for the movie 'How to train your dragon.'

I used spoiler tags in the first post here to avoid any accidents, but for the flow of the convo, be warned that spoiler tags will no longer be used!

It occurred to me, when rewatching this movie today that Hiccup is about as ENFP as they come. He sees both sides of the conflict, he does not fit in, he is a social outcast and a weirdo, considered incompetent and despite his best efforts is somehow not capable of just turning off his bleeping Fi and *doing* what is expected of him by his tribe and his family already.





The bolded = Fi to me as an ENFP. It is the crux. It is the essence of life itself. And it is something I cannot violate without violating myself equally so. Nor will it matter if I violate it, as I will be unable to budge on it anyways. Nor will it be possible to clearly word why it is that I cannot do whatever it is they are demanding from me. It feels wrong in *every* possible way, with every fibre of my being, to the point where I am willing to be considered a social pariah and worse. I'll doubt myself the way Hiccup does, feel immensely guilty for disappointing my family, cringe at the fact that I cannot seem to get my life together, that I am hurting *everyone* I love..but in the end it won't matter. It would be like trying to rip out my soul because it is inconvenient to have one. It is plain impossible.

And boy does it get me in trouble.
 

Totenkindly

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I didn't really read him as an extrovert at all, based on his behavior (he typically acts in private when at all possible, and has to expend energy to extrovert, and even when he's forced to act overtly, he's very low-key about it)... and I don't think the feelings you are describe are specific to one type such as ENFP...

... but I'd like to hear more about your personal ENFP experience, the rest of the post was interesting. It sounds like the movie definitely resonated with you.
 

Nijntje

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I kind of read him like me, as an INFP. tbh. But I'm not up on how each type uses functions. I also may have been projecting.
 

Amargith

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I didn't really read him as an extrovert at all, based on his behavior (he typically acts in private when at all possible, and has to expend energy to extrovert, and even when he's forced to act overtly, he's very low-key about it)... and I don't think the feelings you are describe are specific to one type such as ENFP...

... but I'd like to hear more about your personal ENFP experience, the rest of the post was interesting. It sounds like the movie definitely resonated with you.

Grin. You could say that. I read him as an extravert coz I recognise the need to be alone coz you are considered a weirdo (and therefore it gives you nothing but guilt and shame as experience), while still having that need to tinker and looking for unconventional solutions (his constructing a weapon in order to overcome his weaknesses and finally connect with the group the way he yearns to do). His need to look at things from all angles and therefore see the situation very much different from his peers and his tribesmen is so classic Ne it hurts. In a way, he is the male version of Pocahontas in this movie, bringing two conflicting sides together using his ability to mediate and flexibility to understand both sides.

Aside from that, he still builds the weapon, focusing on his ability to engineer, to invent, to imagine. It is only after he uses it that his Fi kicks in and goes...oh uh. I cannot do this, not if it has this consequence!

I kind of read him like me, as an INFP. tbh. But I'm not up on how each type uses functions.

I would imagine that other Fi-users, especially our I-cousins would relate to him as well, yes. I specifically used ENFP in the title because I was not sure this would happen and I did not want to speak for other types :)
 

Nijntje

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I would imagine that other Fi-users, especially our I-cousins would relate to him as well, yes. I specifically used ENFP in the title because I was not sure this would happen and I did not want to speak for other types :)

See, this is how lame i am on MBTI, i totally forgot that functions are shared.

I did think his dragon could be ENFP as well though, but this assessment is based on the highly scientific, Cute + Incredibly Expressive Non Verbal Facial Expressions theory.
 

Amargith

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See, this is how lame i am on MBTI, i totally forgot that functions are shared.

I did think his dragon could be ENFP as well though, but this assessment is based on the highly scientific, Cute + Incredibly Expressive Non Verbal Facial Expressions theory.

:laugh: He is definitely adorable enough for it :D

My friends saw the movie in the cinema and went like: A, go see that movie. It has cute kitten dragons in it, and tells the tale of how animal whisperers work. This is a must for you!
 

Nijntje

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HE IS A KITTEN DRAGON AND I WANT ONE!!! <insert manic jumpy claps in here>

Anyways, i'll stop derailing now :D
 

Amargith

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HE IS A KITTEN DRAGON AND I WANT ONE!!! <insert manic jumpy claps in here>

Anyways, i'll stop derailing now :D

:D He seriously looks like my Lulu. Demonic black with gorgeous eyes :heart:


kittens%20020_normal.jpg
 

Totenkindly

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Grin. You could say that. I read him as an extravert coz I recognise the need to be alone coz you are considered a weirdo (and therefore it gives you nothing but guilt and shame as experience), while still having that need to tinker and looking for unconventional solutions (his constructing a weapon in order to overcome his weaknesses and finally connect with the group the way he yearns to do). His need to look at things from all angles and therefore see the situation very much different from his peers and his tribesmen is so classic Ne it hurts. In a way, he is the male version of Pocahontas in this movie, bringing two conflicting sides together using his ability to mediate and flexibility to understand both sides.

Aside from that, he still builds the weapon, focusing on his ability to engineer, to invent, to imagine. It is only after he uses it that his Fi kicks in and goes...oh uh. I cannot do this, not if it has this consequence!

I agree that Hiccup and Pocahontas played a very similar role in the movie, although I always read her as INFJ as portrayed in the movie -- very controlled, very private, very protective of her feelings, liking to have everything organized and structured (and her operating through Ni insight, where signs and symbols resonate into some inarticulatable but comprehensible vision for her life). Hiccup seems far more (F)P to me... easy-going, tinkering, playing around, seeing where things go, playing them by ear, finding himself taking risks mostly because he can't draw artificial boundaries for himself... So jah, the Ne thing too. :)

I would imagine that other Fi-users, especially our I-cousins would relate to him as well, yes. I specifically used ENFP in the title because I was not sure this would happen and I did not want to speak for other types :)

Okaybe. :)

So are you considered a weirdo? That's a serious question... I don't think I've ever seen you as a weirdo, in fact you seem more of a popular person to me whereas I feel very self-restrained, not very visible, enigmatic and not very attractive sometimes, etc. You just seem very self-assured and likeable and emotionally out there, drawing people to yourself. So I find it interesting when you offer a perspective where you feel like you are labeled a weirdo, and I want to understand where you're coming from! :)


EDIT: Yup, I just told Nji that they changed the concept from what I've read about the book and made him a flyable, feline dragon. I think it works well, I wouldn't have taken to him otherwise probably. But how Toothless moves, acts, etc., is so cat-like... very cute... and still threatening.
 

Amargith

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I agree that Hiccup and Pocahontas played a very similar role in the movie, although I always read her as INFJ as portrayed in the movie -- very controlled, very private, very protective of her feelings, liking to have everything organized and structured (and her operating through Ni insight, where signs and symbols resonate into some inarticulatable but comprehensible vision for her life). Hiccup seems far more (F)P to me... easy-going, tinkering, playing around, seeing where things go, playing them by ear, finding himself taking risks mostly because he can't draw artificial boundaries for himself... So jah, the Ne thing too. :)



Okaybe. :)

So are you considered a weirdo? That's a serious question... I don't think I've ever seen you as a weirdo, in fact you seem more of a popular person to me whereas I feel very self-restrained, not very visible, enigmatic and not very attractive sometimes, etc. You just seem very self-assured and likeable and emotionally out there, drawing people to yourself. So I find it interesting when you offer a perspective where you feel like you are labeled a weirdo, and I want to understand where you're coming from! :)

Honestly, Pocahontas I identify really hard with as well. I see her as the mature type of ENFP, one that has learned to somewhat put Ne on a leash when need be. She still has that quirky running around, playfulness that her father frowns on, the doubting on the marrying the stable sturdy but boring man, her need to self-reflect, while using Grandma Willow as a sounding board to follow her own heart. Very very Fi, imo. She too is labeled a weirdo in her tribe for that reason.

As for your question. I was bullied my entire life in school. I was a social outcast in just about every group I was part of, growing up. Including my own family. There is a reason I identify as a 4 :D

Fe was not...something I was good at, growing up. And it cost me my social life, especially with other women. Men I started connecting with around 15-16 for obvious reasons. I also did the tomboy thing before that as guys are less..picky as to who is part of the group, as long as they perform (and I was pretty damned good at football ;))
 

Totenkindly

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As for your question. I was bullied my entire life in school. I was a social outcast in just about every group I was part of, growing up. Including my own family. There is a reason I identify as a 4 :D

Well, you don't have to answer this, but did you just present differently? You've discussed you did the tomboy thing. Did you dress differently in other ways, or talk about things people normally didn't talk about, or ... what exactly, that left you either feeling ostracized/misunderstood or looking different from others?

(For me, it was mostly that I was not great socially, I was a bit awkward; and I didn't dress very well, I just wasn't "in" with the fads or even looking good; and I was a real geek and a brain as my main focuses in life. So I didn't really fit in.)

Fe was not...something I was good at, growing up. And it cost me my social life, especially with other women. Men I started connecting with around 15-16 for obvious reasons. I also did the tomboy thing before that as guys are less...picky as to who is part of the group, as long as they perform (and I was pretty damned good at football ;))

I agree about the guy thing. Performance is key; if you're competent and can accomplish the task, you're basically in. Girls focus on a lot of other factors.
 

Amargith

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Well, you don't have to answer this, but did you just present differently? You've discussed you did the tomboy thing. Did you dress differently in other ways, or talk about things people normally didn't talk about, or ... what exactly, that left you either feeling ostracized/misunderstood or looking different from others?

(For me, it was mostly that I was not great socially, I was a bit awkward; and I didn't dress very well, I just wasn't "in" with the fads or even looking good; and I was a real geek and a brain as my main focuses in life. So I didn't really fit in.)



I agree about the guy thing. Performance is key; if you're competent and can accomplish the task, you're basically in. Girls focus on a lot of other factors.

Im stronger and sturdier than most girls. Most look like what we call 'poppemiekes' (little dolls, basically). I wasn't one of them. Add to that that I grew up with two older brothers and you learn to be a little bit..well, lets just say used to the fact that you get dirty, that you get tackled etc. So I acted like a boy, in many ways. On top of that, I was the youngest child with my brothers being 7 and 9 years older than me, so it was expected at home that I talk and act more like an adult..otherwise it got me teased at home. Unfortunately, this also meant that I used that vocabulary and that attitude in school (clueless Fe...), which then again got me looked at as stuck-up.

Aside from the girly clothes not really working well on me, my mother wasnt exactly into following fads (neither was I though), so clothing was definitely different from others. And my dad, being a language geek, had taught me words that you would scarcely hear in normal adult conversation, let alone on the playground (according to my mom, that was what got me ostracised in kindergarten). Lastly, since I was such a social retard, yet sensitive to other peoples moods, I often responded to what they were vibing instead of what they were saying. Most people don't take kindly to that kind of public accidental humiliation as it implies they are in fact lying (which they were, lets be clear here). Add to that my need for intense intimacy and seeking connections (which can come off as wayyyyy too intense and desperate) and well...yeah. Once I hit puberty, rivalry amongst women was another factor that came into play. The fact that I was so comfortable with men in general due to my background, my lack of feminine social graces as well as my general appearance wasn't exactly conducive to circumventing jealousy :shrug:
 

Elfboy

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[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]
Hiccup is an INFP (6w7 Sp/Sx). his inferior Te is obvious.
good post though :)
 

Amargith

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[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]
Hiccup is an INFP (6w7 Sp/Sx). his inferior Te is obvious.
good post though :)

I disagree. Him building that machine as well as the dragon's tail says differently. NeTe, ftw.
 

Poki

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I disagree. Him building that machine as well as the dragon's tail says differently. NeTe, ftw.

He is not Te. NeTi. Te would have to be the oversight of getting things done...not the worker.

He doesnts really other traits that i can see that make him match a person who has both Ne and Te. He is not Fi and matches an inferior Fe
 

Amargith

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He is not Te. NeTi. Te would have to be the oversight of getting things done...not the worker.

He doesnts really other traits that i can see that make him match a person who has both Ne and Te. He is not Fi and matches an inferior Fe

Hell no. He is about as Fi as they come. Fe-tard, for sure, but Fi to the core. It is what stays his hand when *everyone* is telling him he is wrong. His machine doesnt work btw..not properly calibrated. But the idea is there. He takes several trial and error moments to properly get the tail working, to gather empirical data on what *exactly* it is supposed to do, to then make adjustments.

And his interaction with the dragon when he first studies it is classic NeFi: figuring out where the other persons boundaries are, yet being curious enough to keep interacting, testing them thoroughly yet respectfully (lifting the foot when the dragon growls, and putting it back down, just to test if he interpreted that signal properly), realising what is important and valuable to this other creature in front of him. It isn't about control or exploitation, or even mapping out how things work. It is about understanding and connecting, as well finding your own strengths and trusting in them. It is effing theme of the entire story. Those are typical ENFP pitfalls and life lessons, not NT ones (though Im not saying that NTs do not go through this. Im just saying that it isnt their typical focal point in life)
 

Poki

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Hell no. He is about as Fi as they come. Fe-tard, for sure, but Fi to the core. It is what stays his hand when *everyone* is telling him he is wrong. His machine doesnt work btw..not properly calibrated. But the idea is there. He takes several trial and error moments to properly get the tail working, to gather empirical data on what *exactly* it is supposed to do, to then make adjustments.

And his interaction with the dragon when he first studies it is classic NeFi: figuring out where the other persons boundaries are, yet being curious enough to keep interacting, testing them thoroughly yet respectfully (lifting the foot when the dragon growls, and putting it back down, just to test if he interpreted that signal properly), realising what is important and valuable to this other creature in front of him.

thats not an Fi specific trait. He is extremely Ne and pays attention to detail. When i have i ever budged when itold i am wrong. Fi is given traits that other functions also do, just differently. I see more of an Ne/Si driven framework. And people arent always perfect the first time irregardless of type. I work with all types and everyone screws up and goes through trial and error

Not convinced ;)

Lmao about the whole point of the story. It is all driven by him trying to prove himself and then he stumbles across this dragon and the dragon doesn't follow what everyone says. The story is not about connecting, that is what happens as a by product of things that catch his eye and he has to look into.

When does he say..dragons are just misuderstood at the beggining? He doesnt, he wants to prove he can kill them and is capable.
 

Amargith

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thats not an Fi specific trait. He is extremely Ne and pays attention to detail. When i have i ever budged when itold i am wrong. Fi is given traits that other functions also do, just differently.

Not convinced ;)

:shrug: He is warm, caring, he doubts himself non-stop, he is a Fe-tard, he shows mercy and a lack of wanting to control his environment, instead preferring to understand it and risk getting himself eaten by a dragon coz he cannot come to putting his own survival and safety over the life of something that is supposed to be his mortal enemy.

One of the few things almost every Fi-user agrees upon is: harm none and let everyone have the freedom of choice of what to do with their own life.

Im not saying other types arent capable of these values. But the way he expresses them are classic Fi. The way he interacts with his tribe and the way he protects his 'pet-dragon' gets him blamed for being selfish and endangering his own tribe. He gets accused of putting the enemies of his tribe over his tribesmen and called a traitor, ffs! How more self-centred/individualistic can you get?
 

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:shrug: He is warm, caring, he doubts himself non-stop, he is a Fe-tard, he shows mercy and a lack of wanting to control his environment, instead preferring to understand it and risk getting himself eaten by a dragon coz he cannot come to putting his own survival and safety over the life of something that is supposed to be his mortal enemy.

One of the few things almost every Fi-user agrees upon is: harm none and let everyone have the freedom of choice of what to do with their own life.

Im not saying other types arent capable of these values. But the way he expresses them are classic Fi. The way he interacts with his tribe and the way he protects his 'pet-dragon' gets him blamed for being selfish and endangering his own tribe. He gets accused of putting the enemies of his tribe over his tribesmen and called a traitor, ffs! How more self-centred/individualistic can you get?

Sure, because he initially set out to capture a dragon to prove himself. Maybe i missed the part where he captured it initially to so he could create a sonnection.
 

Amargith

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Sure, because he initially set out to capture a dragon to prove himself. Maybe i missed the part where he captured it initially to so he could create a sonnection.

Goes back to wanting to please those he loves and cares about, aka his dad. He has no reason to doubt his dads wishes and judgement at that point, so yes, NeTe comes up with a solution to stop being a disappointment to his dad. But he does not seek to control the dragon, he seeks to understand it. Something stops him the second it is helpless on the floor, and that something is the fear he sees reflected back at him. The same fear he feels when he sees a dragon. He sees a helpless being, which fully surrenders to him as he has no other choice, which fully expects to die. And he cuts it loose, knowing very well that the dragon might kill him, as he gives up the position of power. Once he is taught that a dragon will *always* go for the kill, in dragon class, his curiosity demands that he finds out why this dragon didnt. And so his quest for understanding, not controlling, begins. And you see him gaining confidence and strength as he follows his own NeFi path, as opposed to the path laid out for him by his tribesmen. If it was social acceptance that truly drove him, he would relish his popularity through his gained knowledge a lot more. Instead, his curiosity and need to know more prompts him to avoid it in order to get back to what is important: understanding this fascinating creature.
 
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