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[INFP] Cynical INFP's

Joehobo

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Yeah, this is the other problem: getting put off yet again by shitty responses. Damned if you do, damned if you don't... :doh:

Yeah, funny thing is though I do it to other people aswell.
Guess we all just gotta suck it up and get over the unrealistic expectations. Even if that means taking everything with a bit of salt, yes?

It's a sad sight to see. :(

I guess, not as sad as becoming self destructive though and just feeding anxieties.
Honestly I'm just feeling more and more like there is little alternatives. Hopefully it just balances out after awhile. :unsure:
My expectations of people is actually destroying my closest relationships right now.
 

raindancing

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No I wasn't always cynical. In my memory I was a wide-eyed, naive, idealist as a child, but after your soul gets crushed repeatedly over time, cynicism starts to creep in.

I think cynicism for INFPs allows us the best of both worlds: you get to express your idealistic side and bemoan society's failure to live up to your ideal, while at the same time avoiding coming across as some pathetic sad sap. I guess what I'm saying is, it's not just a reflection of our attitude to life but also is a socially acceptable form of authentic expression of self.

Cynicism + sarcastic humour is even more epic, because it's just generally awesome, and because, in reality, I'm only ever half joking; although people rarely work this out.

Wow it's like you looked in my head.
And the bold, :yes:
(I end up doing this for my own entertainment sometimes... How far can I go before they finally realize I actually mean it? Seems to inevitably happen when I'm interacting with family.)

I suppose what conditioned me was the sort of derision I encountered in response to my intense earnestness when I was younger. Cynical humour seemed to help with social interaction, and at the same time it allowed me to remain authentic to my inner self. I suppose I latched onto something like that; something that helped me connect and communicate my thoughts and feelings to others in a socially appropriate way. Unfortunately I've taken it too far and now I struggle to go back to earnestness.

An example? I suppose I'm not good at telling the people close to me how much I care about them, so I engage in cynical banter with them instead. Like I said, I don't know how to switch back to heartfelt expression. I have been trying to work on this lately though...

Again, I could have written this... :shock:

I was so intense and passionate as a child... people's reactions were almost always like a glass of ice water thrown in my face. It wasn't pleasant, cynicism became a kind of defense. Protecting the vulnerable parts of me. Over my teenage years I felt like I was losing myself and became extremely depressed, I either couldn't express what was important to me or I was afraid to.
I went through a lot of emotional abuse as a kid, which I'm sure played its part.

I remember when I first learned about abortion... I must have been around 6-7 years old. I heard something about it, and asked my parents. I don't remember what they said, but they are very anti-abortion, so I can imagine. I'm sure they didn't realize how intense my reaction would be. I don't even know how to express how it made me feel. Such absolute sorrow. The world suddenly became... I don't know. It was like I was being crushed. I think I asked a few questions when they told me, and otherwise took it calmly. Later, we went to church, and in the middle of the singing I broke down. Uncontrollable shaking, just waves and waves of unbearable pain. I ran out, down the aisle, the entire congregation staring at me, sobbing.
When my parents found me, and asked what was wrong, I wouldn't tell them. It was this horror that suddenly made everything meaningless. People didn't deserve to live. No one. I saw my parents, who walked blithely around living their lives, holding this knowledge. I hated them. I hated them more than people who actually did it. I figured, the people who did it, they didn't think it was wrong, but my parents... they said it was terrible, and yet they didn't do anything. They didn't even have an emotional reaction. They had told me about it with an air of moral superiority. It made me sick. I could barely look at them for weeks. Even now, remembering how I felt... I'm shaking.


Oh and just a little note, I moved to New Zealand when I was 18, totally different group of people than those I knew in the USA. Much more embracing of cynicism. :)

I don't really see cynicism as inherently negative, my humor is very often of the cynical variety... and it's the sort I enjoy most in others.
I kind of see myself as idealistic and cynical. Does this make any sense? :laugh:
Lately I've gotten better at opening my deeper, truer self. More confidence, extremely supportive partner. Writing has made a huge difference.
Perhaps I've become so cynical I don't give a shit what people think. :D
 

Southern Kross

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Wow it's like you looked in my head.
And the bold, :yes:
(I end up doing this for my own entertainment sometimes... How far can I go before they finally realize I actually mean it? Seems to inevitably happen when I'm interacting with family.)
So other INFPs do this too? Interesting.

Again, I could have written this... :shock:

I was so intense and passionate as a child... people's reactions were almost always like a glass of ice water thrown in my face. It wasn't pleasant, cynicism became a kind of defense. Protecting the vulnerable parts of me. Over my teenage years I felt like I was losing myself and became extremely depressed, I either couldn't express what was important to me or I was afraid to.
I went through a lot of emotional abuse as a kid, which I'm sure took played its part.
Yeah, I was a horrible teenager, especially ages 15-18. I was rather moody, bitter, and negative, which, I suppose reflected my frustration with my inability to freely express myself and properly connect with people.

Sometimes you've got to endeavour to find appropriate ways to channel your thoughts and feelings, when your more natural modes of expression fail to work. I suppose cynicism is one of them for me.
 

CrystalViolet

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Extremely cynical these days.
 

wolfy

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Cynicism seems par for the course as an NF. A cynic being a disappointing idealist.
 

Udog

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The cynic phase is practically a rite of passage for an INFP.
 

Joehobo

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Over my teenage years I felt like I was losing myself and became extremely depressed, I either couldn't express what was important to me or I was afraid to.
I went through a lot of emotional abuse as a kid, which I'm sure played its part.

I experienced a similar thing in my teen years, inspite of the differing experiences.
Also partly to do with as Southern Kross stated, a frustration with feeling unable to express yourself and connect with people.

Extremely cynical these days.

Would you like to share your thoughts on this topic? :)

Cynicism seems par for the course as an NF. A cynic being a disappointing idealist.

Yeah, this definitely affects NF's across the board.

The cynic phase is practically a rite of passage for an INFP.

So what's the end result, who walks out from this passage alive? Is the end result battle hardened grizzled veteran? Or a broken fool gone mad? Haha. Is this cynic phase ment to kick in your 20's?
 

Udog

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So what's the end result, who walks out from this passage alive? Is the end result battle hardened grizzled veteran? Or a broken fool gone mad? Haha. Is this cynic phase ment to kick in your 20's?

I think some INFPs manage to avoid it, but it's pretty common. It usually kicks in around the time we realize that the real world doesn't cooperate with our idealism, which seems to frequently occur during our teenage years and early 20s.

The end result depends on how the INFP processes it. Some never outgrow it and remain cynics. Others become "battle hardened grizzled veterans". Some get broken. And many out grow it, and figure out how to mesh idealism with reality while avoiding the negative emotions of cynicism. Personally, I find the last to be the ideal solution.
 
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Treading a fine line with that reasoning, Udog, though it's likely the wording I have issues with.
 

Udog

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[MENTION=4533]sleuthiness[/MENTION]: Clarify?
 

Scott N Denver

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I think some INFPs manage to avoid it, but it's pretty common. It usually kicks in around the time we realize that the real world doesn't cooperate with our idealism, which seems to frequently occur during our teenage years and early 20s.

The end result depends on how the INFP processes it. Some never outgrow it and remain cynics. Others become "battle hardened grizzled veterans". Some get broken. And many out grow it, and figure out how to mesh idealism with reality while avoiding the negative emotions of cynicism. Personally, I find the last to be the ideal solution.

I don't think I've ever been particularly cynical, for example. Sarcastic, sure, cynical about a small thing here or there briefly, sure. But cynical in general or overall, no. We all get to make choices in life. And if your old choices aren't going how you wanted, you always have the freedom to try new choices. Attitude choices are much more accessible than career or living location ones, though even the latter often still can be done.
 
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Whether people realize or not, our thought processes are more intricately woven than commonly illustrated. As when public figures begin with "s/he hates us" with poor evidence to support a weak claim (extreme example), presupposition of negativity in others is, infact, cynicism itself.

It should be understood that use of the word "cynic" and any of its variations is purely an art form, as is all that encompasses human perception and expression. Basically everything people say when laughably denouncing typology.
 

Joehobo

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I think some INFPs manage to avoid it, but it's pretty common. It usually kicks in around the time we realize that the real world doesn't cooperate with our idealism, which seems to frequently occur during our teenage years and early 20s.

The end result depends on how the INFP processes it. Some never outgrow it and remain cynics. Others become "battle hardened grizzled veterans". Some get broken. And many out grow it, and figure out how to mesh idealism with reality while avoiding the negative emotions of cynicism. Personally, I find the last to be the ideal solution.

Certainly fits with me, being 20 this has really started to kick in. I guess my search for this was triggered by the fact I was being pointed out as a cynic by those closest to me, I didn't even realise my own behaviour towards them. Really it was just bitterness towards choices they had made which went against their OWN set of principles which they judged me by. I had stupidly made the mistake of taking on some of their own values without giving it the proper scrutiny of whether or not it was something I really wanted to believe in on my own.
Does this sound about right in those scenario's?

I agree with you on the last as well. Most definately sound.
Which where you, Udog? ;)
 

Joehobo

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I don't think I've ever been particularly cynical, for example. Sarcastic, sure, cynical about a small thing here or there briefly, sure. But cynical in general or overall, no. We all get to make choices in life. And if your old choices aren't going how you wanted, you always have the freedom to try new choices. Attitude choices are much more accessible than career or living location ones, though even the latter often still can be done.

It sounds like you have a really healthy outlook on life. It's refreshing to see this, truly. :smile:
 

Udog

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Certainly fits with me, being 20 this has really started to kick in. I guess my search for this was triggered by the fact I was being pointed out as a cynic by those closest to me, I didn't even realise my own behaviour towards them. Really it was just bitterness towards choices they had made which went against their OWN set of principles which they judged me by. I had stupidly made the mistake of taking on some of their own values without giving it the proper scrutiny of whether or not it was something I really wanted to believe in on my own.
Does this sound about right in those scenario's?

Few things will get someone on my bad side quicker than willful hypocrisy, so I can see that. It's not the only scenario, but it's definitely one.

I agree with you on the last as well. Most definately sound.
Which where you, Udog? ;)

Realistically, a bit of all three. There's a few areas I still find myself a bit cynical about (to my dismay), I'm a bit hardened in other areas (to my disappointment), and I've accepted and moved on with several other big things. I mainly strive for consciousness, since cynicism doesn't lead to happiness. Once I'm conscious of it, I can start looking digging a bit deep and try and figure out what truths I need to accept in order to rise above it.
 

Joehobo

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Realistically, a bit of all three. There's a few areas I still find myself a bit cynical about (to my dismay), I'm a bit hardened in other areas (to my disappointment), and I've accepted and moved on with several other big things. I mainly strive for consciousness, since cynicism doesn't lead to happiness. Once I'm conscious of it, I can start looking digging a bit deep and try and figure out what truths I need to accept in order to rise above it.

Sounds like an effective strategy, opposed to enabling initial reactions. I've been handling things in a similar matter and it makes me wonder how much in reality I've ignored and hoped that I can avoid aswell as hoped others who are close to me could/would also avoid. Are the things you find yourself cynical about only really specific things related to whatever initially caused it or has it spread? Has this way of thinking been effective for you in the long run?
 
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