[NF] "Sorry." "It's not your fault!"

[cascadeco]

I think this makes the most sense to me so far.

So, for the people who think "I'm so sorry" is an inappropriate thing to say...what should I say? I could say "how do you feel about that?" but that a) makes me sound like a therapist, b) invites the response "how the hell do you think I feel about it?!?!"

My boyfriend almost always responds with the 'It's not your fault' on the occasion that I do say I'm sorry. So, I've learned...

I still say it sometimes, because, well, I'm not going to stop saying it altogether and sometimes it spontaneously just comes out of my mouth (and also... he says it too! So there! haha)

But, the bulk of the time with him, or even with friends, if they're telling me something that's frustrating, or that they're upset about, I'll simply listen. I'll make 'arg' noises, or shake my head, or do the body language/facial expression thing, but that's about it. I think just indicating - even if not in words - that you're listening to them and 'get' what they're expressing, can go a long way.

And, on the flip side... when I'm on the receiving side of hearing the 'I'm sorry', it's like.... as the receiver, you can't really respond to that. All you can do is acknowledge that you heard them say they're sorry, and shrug your shoulders or something. So, yeah, the words themselves don't 'do' a huge amount.

 

[Aquarelle]

I find that a strange response too... I've never encountered it in situations like death or a marriage ending, but just in smaller day to day situations. Like if my spouse tells me he didn't sleep well or isn't feeling well, I'll say "I'm sorry," and he'll say "It's not your fault." It's not even that he's interpreting it as an apology, though, it's just a weird, sort of conditioned response kind of thing. (Of course in the case of not sleeping well, I guess potentially it could be my fault; I do tend to toss and turn a lot.)

I think in this sense, "I'm sorry" is shortened from "I'm sorry to hear that." I'm not sure why this should cause confusion between this sense of the phrase and an actual apology-- it seems to me that context should provide the distinction-- but apparently it does confuse some people. So perhaps an alternative would simply be to use the unabridged version, so as to avoid confusion.

 

[SilkRoad]

Tangentially- I try not to say "I'm sorry" about divorces anymore, unless the person telling me clearly didn't want it to happen (which is what your instances sound like). Among my friends who have gotten divorced, most of the turmoil happens before they make the decision to split up, and by then the split-up is actually a relief.

Yeah, actually, that is a good point. If it's out of the blue/someone I hadn't communicated with for a while, or something, it could be tricky to know how to react. If I knew them and what had led up to it, I'd probably say something more detailed like "I'm sorry about all the difficult stuff you've gone through up to this point, but it sounds like it's for the best, so I hope you will be ok. Do you want to...have dinner and chat? tell me if there is something I can do to help you with organising stuff, moving, etc?" And so on.

 

[ceecee]

Not really an "NF" topic, but I wasn't sure where to put this and figured I'd get good responses here.

When someone tells me that...they have a serious illness; a good friend just died tragically; their marriage is ending; etc, my tendency is to look at them bug-eyed and say "I'M SO SORRY." (And I mean it, too, especially if I'm close to them.)

What surprises me is that quite often, the person will look at me slightly surprised and say "It's not your fault!" or even "It's fine!". This always surprises me in return. Almost as though I said something inappropriate, or they just totally weren't expecting that. And to me it's completely the natural thing to say.

Would any of you react like that - or do you think it's an odd reaction? Or do you think it's a cultural thing? I live in England and I can't remember if anyone in Canada or Ireland reacted like that. Then again, living in England I can think of at least English and South African people who have both reacted like that...

I wonder if they might react like that because I look sincerely moved when I say it? But it's not like I burst into tears! I know though that some people are a bit uncomfortable about any display of emotion, so maybe they feel uncomfortable either that they might be exposing themselves, or that I feel so sorry about the situation. But my reaction if I told someone bad news and they said "I'm sorry" would just be "thank you."

Thoughts?

Ohhhh..my ENFJ says the - it's not your fault thing a lot. I can't stand that. I have told him it sounds like something you would say to a stranger (even that is bad), not to your wife. He has started saying thank you more often now but I usually hug him and tell him I'm here to listen if he wants to talk instead of I'm sorry.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Well, I can relate to what you've shared SilkRoad.

When I've been on the receiving end, and someone gives me the big-eye emotional look and generic "I'm so sorry!", I realize it's sincere, and I can appreciate the effort, but I can sometimes feel annoyed because I don't want a misinterpretation of my emotional state reflected back to me. And that emotional expression makes me feel as though I now have to manage your emotional state and downplay things so you don't mirror to me this huge sadness.

On the giving end, I used to say it a lot however. Over the years, I have adapted the protocol by being specific, and really using the same body language as the person sharing the info. SO, instead of saying "I'm so sorry" with no explanation, I say, "That sounds like you've had a difficult time. I'm sorry (or it's a real challenge) you had to go through that". Basically just adding the WHY to "I'm sorry". It seems to help because the person really knows you're listening to it all and commiserating on the specifics.

I guess as I think about it more, even though I do try to avoid saying "I'm sorry" it still pops out ... sorry about that (lol)!

And yeah, sometimes just saying "Wow, there aren't words good enough to say how hard that must be for you - that really sucks" covers a lot of ground.

 

[Laurie]

I find it odd how when I (or anyone really) posts threads like this, there are always so many people willing to pile on telling you you're doing it all wrong and that's why you get an odd reaction from a FEW people.

Did anyone do that? Did you think I did? I thought people were discussing their experiences with it. We all have to come up with things to say.

 

[garbage]

I find it odd how when I (or anyone really) posts threads like this, there are always so many people willing to pile on telling you you're doing it all wrong and that's why you get an odd reaction from a FEW people.

Yeah, I don't think that you're doing it wrong. People may be forgetting that "sorry" can mean regret or condolence.

Then again.. maybe, for some, "it's not your fault" does recognize the condolence and that it means "I'm fine," or "I don't want to burden you by making you feel bad." Surely, people aren't so obtuse to believe that we think that we caused the thing that we say we're sorry about?

I guess, if I had someone tell me "it's not your fault," I'd take that way.

 

[SilkRoad]

When I've been on the receiving end, and someone gives me the big-eye emotional look and generic "I'm so sorry!", I realize it's sincere, and I can appreciate the effort, but I can sometimes feel annoyed because I don't want a misinterpretation of my emotional state reflected back to me. And that emotional expression makes me feel as though I now have to manage your emotional state and downplay things so you don't mirror to me this huge sadness.

On the giving end, I used to say it a lot however. Over the years, I have adapted the protocol by being specific, and really using the same body language as the person sharing the info. SO, instead of saying "I'm so sorry" with no explanation, I say, "That sounds like you've had a difficult time. I'm sorry (or it's a real challenge) you had to go through that". Basically just adding the WHY to "I'm sorry". It seems to help because the person really knows you're listening to it all and commiserating on the specifics.

Yeah, I think that's a great point, and depending on the situation I would often phrase it more that way. It's more specific so it leaves less room for them to say "it's not your fault". Then again, I'm pretty sure I've said "I'm sorry you've had to go through that" and someone has responded "it's ok" before, as well

I think also a lot depends on your relationship with the person and your tone, body language, whether you're in a position to give them a hug and offer assistance, etc...

 

[SilkRoad]

Did anyone do that? Did you think I did? I thought people were discussing their experiences with it. We all have to come up with things to say.

Not really. Just me feeling snarky

Yeah, I don't think that you're doing it wrong. People may be forgetting that "sorry" can mean regret or condolence.

Then again.. maybe, for some, "it's not your fault" does recognize the condolence and that it means "I'm fine," or "I don't want to burden you by making you feel bad." Surely, people aren't so obtuse to believe that we think that we caused the thing that we say we're sorry about?

I guess, if I had someone tell me "it's not your fault," I'd take that way.

Yeah, I've wondered if that was just their way of acknowledging it or defusing the moment, or something. Maybe some people are worried I'm going to get super-emotional about it. I think it's the more stoic/less willing to show emotion people who are more likely to do the "it's ok" or "it's not your fault" thing, anyway.

 

[Turtledove]

When I was in college, I took a personality psychology class. The teacher was explaining a chapter I can't quite remember, but I remember this coming up. He said that people suffering the loss of perhaps a loved one or something of that nature does not need someone to give sympathy by saying your sorry, but instead that it is best to ask the person, "Is there anything I can do for you?"

 

[PeaceBaby]

I feel compelled to add too - most folks know that the socially graceful thing to do is NOT to say back, "Why, it's not your fault". People who do make a choice to shift the situation to awkward as well, so shouldn't be completely absolved of responsibility there.

"I'm sorry" is a quick shorthand for the extended version, and we all know that. I think too as women we tend to apologize a lot, don't know why we do that, but we do.

The socially appropriate response is simply "Thanks".

 

[SilkRoad]

When I was in college, I took a personality psychology class. The teacher was explaining a chapter I can't quite remember, but I remember this coming up. He said that people suffering the loss of perhaps a loved one or something of that nature does not need someone to give sympathy by saying your sorry, but instead that it is best to ask the person, "Is there anything I can do for you?"

I totally hear what your teacher was saying. The funny thing, though, is that if I were the one who had just had the bad news, and someone said "is there anything I can do for you", I think in a lot of cases that might actually make me feel more awkward/obliged than if they said "I'm sorry."

I'm generally quite reluctant to ask people for anything so that might have something to do with it. But I think I would feel a bit like "oh no, I told them about my bad news, and now they feel like they need to do something for me?"

Again though it would depend a lot on our relationship, and on the specific situation. I have definitely said something like "is there something I can do" to someone I'm at least close-ish to. And if a good friend said that to me when I'd had bad news, I'd probably say "thanks, but I have all the help I need for now, but it would be great if we could have a coffee and just talk, soon." Or whatever.

It's interesting to see how differently people feel about these things.

 

[Vasilisa]

That sounds painful.

You have my sympathies.

 

[Turtledove]

I totally hear what your teacher was saying. The funny thing, though, is that if I were the one who had just had the bad news, and someone said "is there anything I can do for you", I think in a lot of cases that might actually make me feel more awkward/obliged than if they said "I'm sorry."

I'm generally quite reluctant to ask people for anything so that might have something to do with it. But I think I would feel a bit like "oh no, I told them about my bad news, and now they feel like they need to do something for me?"

Again though it would depend a lot on our relationship, and on the specific situation. I have definitely said something like "is there something I can do" to someone I'm at least close-ish to. And if a good friend said that to me when I'd had bad news, I'd probably say "thanks, but I have all the help I need for now, but it would be great if we could have a coffee and just talk, soon." Or whatever.

It's interesting to see how differently people feel about these things.

Well, I also think along the lines that you actually do have to genuinely care about the person's need and may have to be a little pushy that you are willing to help and are available to them. I tried it once after they found out in distress their grandma died and she simply said "Give us prayer." I almost made a friend but both of us were reluctant to talk to one another.

But Vasilisa's post sounds much better to say.

 

[Glycerine]

This is why I never tell people things. Everyone feels the need to interpret my emotional stance and manage it for me. Or at least, that's how it appears. Why can't I just exchange data without all the crap.

Agreed. It sometimes seems like it is for the benefit for the other person to make themselves feel better about the situation via projection of how they interpret the situation.

 

[Xenon]

It's an odd reaction, yeah. I'm seeing this similarly to [MENTION=5578]bologna[/MENTION]; they can't possibly think you believe it's your fault. More likely they're uncomfortable with the exchange, for whatever reason, and some good ones have been mentioned (they don't want to burden you, or they feel their emotional reaction isn't being reflected accurately, or the relationship between you isn't such that they're comfortable with discussing personal stuff), and so they're trying to tone down/shrug off the touchy-feeliness.

I don't ever say things like that myself. I know how awkward I feel trying to respond to someone else's pain; I don't want to make anyone else feel like that.

I totally hear what your teacher was saying. The funny thing, though, is that if I were the one who had just had the bad news, and someone said "is there anything I can do for you", I think in a lot of cases that might actually make me feel more awkward/obliged than if they said "I'm sorry."

I'm generally quite reluctant to ask people for anything so that might have something to do with it. But I think I would feel a bit like "oh no, I told them about my bad news, and now they feel like they need to do something for me?"

Yeah...the advice I've heard is that it's better to offer to do something specific for them at a specific time, because that way they don't have the burden of thinking of something for you to do and asking you to do it.

It's interesting to see how differently people feel about these things.

Yep. Sometimes reading things like this makes these situations seem like a minefield to me...like no matter what you say or do, there's a chance the person will respond negatively to it. Part of the reason I'm so prone to feeling uncomfortable.

 

[Starry]

Yah...I'm kinda with [MENTION=5953]Elaur[/MENTION] on this. I think this is becoming one of those 'scripted/go-to' responses. Like...'How are you?' 'I'm fine.' 'I'm so sorry.' 'Don't be, it's not your fault.'

I think it is just really hard in this day-and-age. Life really doesn't slow down when tragedy strikes...and it has become increasingly difficult to ascertain who sincerely cares and who doesn't. Who truly feels sorry for you...or who is just utilizing 'the script' in order to 'make nice' and subsequently get something out of you...'I'm so sorry for your loss...Now about those reports you're working on...'

^^^I almost want to say that in some instances...that response is a way to get back on equal-footing with the individaul that expressed the 'I'm so sorry' sentiment. In situations where things don't slow down...like in the workplace...the 'I'm so sorry' can kinda feel like 'pity' or 'being humored'. Like...'My life is fantastic right now...so I feel especially sorry for you' (there is some sort of separating quality to the statement)...or like I said above...not really giving a shit...but using the proper social script.

This is an unfortunate thing for individuals that truly mean it when they say 'Sorry'. But I generally feel more comfortable with individuals that instantly relate to me as opposed to feeling sorry for me. Like...'oh yah...when I went through that I felt like <insert shitty feeling>.'

 

[SilkRoad]

This is an unfortunate thing for individuals that truly mean it when they say 'Sorry'. But I generally feel more comfortable with individuals that instantly relate to me as opposed to feeling sorry for me. Like...'oh yah...when I went through that I felt like <insert shitty feeling>.'

Yeah, I think the thing I worry about in saying "when I went through this, I felt like..." is that they're going to think I'm saying "I KNOW EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL" which to me would be a dismissive/presumptuous reaction. If I said anything along those lines, I'd probably qualify it massively. Like, "I know it's not really the same situation, but it might be a bit like when I went through x and y, and I felt like such and such..." But then that's almost over-qualifying it...dunno.

I think that even if I chose to say "I'm sorry," I would kind of wait to see where they took it from there. Like, I might ask them more about the situation if they seemed open to that, or tell them about my friend who went through something similar. I would hope that "I'm sorry" would kind of open the door - not close it. I would HATE to say "I'm sorry...now, back to work." Ouch, so dismissive.

I slightly regret starting this thread now, it feels like even more of a minefield.

 

[Starry]

I slightly regret starting this thread now, it feels like even more of a minefield.

I'm glad you started it. I actually thought it was really interesting...and it has been interesting to see the different responses.

It is hard to know what to do in these type of situations. A response that would make me feel comfortable...may be totally off-putting to someone else.

 

[Society]

Yeah!

I guess I could start saying "Damn. That sucks." It just doesn't seem quite right a lot of the time.

i found the canadian "i'm sorry for your loss" to be confusing, and i don't think the time of loss is the best time to expect someone to remember their social graces, often loss is difficult to acknowledge straight after it happens so people don't associate "i'm sorry" with the condition they are in on an immediate basis, and treat "i'm sorry" the way they are used to otherwise.

so i directly translated the hebrew "i share in your sorrow". it was very appreciated and immoderately understood because there was no automatic response to it. but being a foreigner might have given it legitimacy.

alternatively, feel free to try this ready-made condolences poetry from south africa's finest.