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[Fi] Fi - disliking the very idea of trying to turn feelings into words?

Virtual ghost

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Give me an example of an Fi flow chart. This sounds interesting.

It is qute simple just make categories :

1. You should not be angry because nothing else couldn't be done
2. You are depressed because of real reason instead of the some vague reasons (problems in school and work)
3. Quarter of your belief system is obviously inconsisted with what you embraced tomorrow.
4. The amount of nervous brake downs in the last month


etc.


And then you observe how many times the person will show some of the traits and what will cause them. I mean this is a childlish play for the situations when a NT has nothing to do so ......


Plus as you probaly already realize this is a perfect way how to annoy an FP. (or scare them when they realize you are cutting their soul apart just to see what it is in there and what provokes them ) Since the last thing they want to is being treated as a "thing" or feeling "naked" around the strangers .
 

The Great One

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It is qute simple just make categories :

1. You should not be angry because nothing else couldn't be done
2. You are depressed because of real reason instead of the some vague reasons (problems in school and work)
3. Quarter of your belief system is obviously inconsisted with what you embraced tomorrow.
4. The amount of nervous brake downs in the last month


etc.


And then you observe how many times the person will show some of the traits and what will cause them. I mean this is a childlish play for the situations when a NT has nothing to do so ......


Plus as you probaly already realize this is a perfect way how to annoy an FP. (or scare them when they realize you are cutting their soul apart just to see what it is in there and what provokes them ) Since the last thing they want to is being treated as a "thing" or feeling "naked" around the strangers .

I can see your point of view, but I tend to have a heavy Fe so I can sort of empathize with them a lot more than you probably could.
 

Virtual ghost

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I can see your point of view, but I tend to have a heavy Fe so I can sort of empathize with them a lot more than you probably could.


Well despite the whole Fi/Fe thing I am not the person that has a lot of emotional skills. However with Fi you trully have to be careful since only a few wrong choices of words can killl a good friendship/connection and yet there is no certanty that you will get all of the words corectlly. Especially since FPs usually have a highly individualized sensitivity on words , things and events.
 

The Great One

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Well despite the whole Fi/Fe thing I am not the person that has a lot of emotional skills. However with Fi you trully have to be careful since only a few wrong choices of words can killl a good friendship/connection and yet there is no certanty that you will get all of the words corectlly. Especially since FPs usually have a highly individualized sensitivity on words , things and events.

lol, tell me about it. I've butchered countless friendships with Fi users due to my hurtful words. Don't get me started on the IxFP's either.
 

Mia.

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Does this even work, though? Does "if I were them" mean "if I were experiencing the same type of situation they are"? In my experience, how I feel in situations is often quite different from how others feel, or at least how they say they feel. This is why I hesitate to make assumptions about other people's reactions and behavior based on my own.
.

Yes, it works. It's called empathy. But it has two prerequisites: 1.) one must be enough in touch with one’s own emotional life to know how one feels, what one feels, and why one feels, and 2.) one must be able to imagine yourself in the other person's shoes in an immersive way. Step one is where TJs often experience the disconnect and sometimes have trouble with empathy (and they sometimes break down at step 2 in terms of motivation) – one can't empathize if one doesn't first have a good grip on one’s own emotional life. In a given situation, a TJ is often out of touch with their emotions, mistaking what they are thinking for how they are feeling. And of course, what they are thinking IS going to be different from what someone else would be thinking in an imagined scenario.

I do journal sometimes, to include inner feelings, and usually want to burn the pages forthwith because I am paranoid that someone might find and read them.

This is ridiculously adorable. I'm the same way, but for some reason when it's a TJ it's so cute I can't stand it.
 

Thalassa

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Why would empathy be stronger in an Se<Fi user, than an Ne<Fi user?

huh? Never said such a thing. Its just that Se is more prone to specific contextual Fi and develops ethics from life experience. Ne may have more grounded Fi morality anchored to Si and develop ethics more theoretically.
 

Thalassa

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Well despite the whole Fi/Fe thing I am not the person that has a lot of emotional skills. However with Fi you trully have to be careful since only a few wrong choices of words can killl a good friendship/connection and yet there is no certanty that you will get all of the words corectlly. Especially since FPs usually have a highly individualized sensitivity on words , things and events.

if ur really intj this post is hilarious. You have tertiary Fi yourself. Ironically an Fi user is pointing out lack of logic in ur post.
 

Virtual ghost

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if ur really intj this post is hilarious. You have tertiary Fi yourself. Ironically an Fi user is pointing out lack of logic in ur post.


That is not logic that is lack of belief in "the model".


For me it makes much more sense to measure the functions with a test .... it is much more empirical and individually correct in my opinion. I have "Fi - limited use" so I dont consider myself to be a Fi user .... or to place more it precisely "I am not a good example of typical Fi usage".


If the Great one decides to study Fi on me the results could easily be pretty inconclusive or counter-productive in understanding of stronger Fi usage. (what is the actual topic here) So I have phrased my argument this way , even if it might be misleading.
 

Coriolis

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Yes, it works. It's called empathy. But it has two prerequisites: 1.) one must be enough in touch with one’s own emotional life to know how one feels, what one feels, and why one feels, and 2.) one must be able to imagine yourself in the other person's shoes in an immersive way. Step one is where TJs often experience the disconnect and sometimes have trouble with empathy (and they sometimes break down at step 2 in terms of motivation) – one can't empathize if one doesn't first have a good grip on one’s own emotional life. In a given situation, a TJ is often out of touch with their emotions, mistaking what they are thinking for how they are feeling. And of course, what they are thinking IS going to be different from what someone else would be thinking in an imagined scenario.
Are you suggesting, then, that all people will experience the same feelings in the same kind of situation, and that only their thoughts will be different? I may be mistaking what you mean by feeling, but I have found it often not so, at least in the cases where I do have a good understanding of my own feelings. One thing that has always bothered me is when others expect me to feel the same way as they would, and I do not.

This is ridiculously adorable. I'm the same way, but for some reason when it's a TJ it's so cute I can't stand it.
Why is that??? (I never understood just what anyone might find adorable, cute, etc. in an INTJ, unless he/she is 4 years old, like Orobas' boy. And even he will probably not appreciate it once he learns what those words mean.)
 

The Great One

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huh? Never said such a thing. Its just that Se is more prone to specific contextual Fi and develops ethics from life experience. Ne may have more grounded Fi morality anchored to Si and develop ethics more theoretically.

Interesting.
 

Mia.

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Are you suggesting, then, that all people will experience the same feelings in the same kind of situation, and that only their thoughts will be different? I may be mistaking what you mean by feeling, but I have found it often not so, at least in the cases where I do have a good understanding of my own feelings. One thing that has always bothered me is when others expect me to feel the same way as they would, and I do not.

No I’m not suggesting that. I do believe that primary emotions (fear, anger, etc.) are likely to be more universal, and that it is in the secondary emotions that you will see more individual variance. It just comes down to being able to feel one’s own feelings, and then immerse oneself mentally in the other’s situation so that one will start to feel what the other might be feeling. Then further clarification (what the other is feeling and why, etc.) can happen that would modify the empathic experience, but that can’t happen until the mechanics are in place.

Why is that??? (I never understood just what anyone might find adorable, cute, etc. in an INTJ, unless he/she is 4 years old, like Orobas' boy. And even he will probably not appreciate it once he learns what those words mean.)

See? You did it again. :newwink:
 

Coriolis

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See? You did it again.
Did what? Speculate about someone's reactions when I know we share some common perspectives?

It is interesting that you mention anger as a primary emotion that will not see much variance. I see the opposite. Many things that make others angry do not bother me at all, while things that make me angry are either not on the radar for others, or are not bothersome. I still don't think it is that easy to generalize, unless we have some knowledge about the other person.
 

xenaprincess

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well, re the original post, I don't have an issue with writing about my feelings. Speaking is another thing though.

To me, the act of saying something 'out loud' brings the emotion to the surface, magnifies it 10x and makes it real. Sometimes it's so real that I can't manage it. It's overwhelming. Example: I might feel empathy but once I even start saying 'I'm sorry', a huge surge of emotion and the tears will come. The words bring out the emotion.

[MENTION=15573]powderpills[/MENTION] might want to consider art therapy instead of talk therapy? I'm not an expert about it but I've heard that it's one way to get access to feelings via art rather than words.
 

21%

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I don't know if this is related, but here goes: I think Fe users have a slightly more 'detached' view of themselves than Fi users. I think if you orient your feelings to the outside, you are more aware of the entities on the outside, and subsequently feel that you are one of the entities. Fe users are more 'objective' when it comes to evaluating feelings. When I write something passionately, and I go back to read it a few days later, and it sounds completely silly, I'll just laugh and think "What a silly girl". I feel like I was authentic in that moment, and that's enough. Although I no longer feel that way, the 'me' in the past and the present 'me' are in a way separated, so I don't feel like I'm being fake or false.

I think my INFP boyfriend does have this feeling -- it's like he is trying to keep himself 'himself' at all times, like there is just one authentic self, and when he 'strays' from that, he feels bad like he is not being authentic.

Not sure if this all makes sense.
 

OrangeAppled

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^ I honestly don't worry about whether a past expression of feeling is "authentic". I don't worry about being authentic, because I feel like I am by default, sometimes to my own detriment. Being false/fake is not something that comes easy (even when it would be preferable). I don't cringe over feelings that may not be "me" anymore... I too know it was real at the time.

I think you might be confusing accuracy with authenticity. It's not a matter of fearing the feeling becoming fake when expressed poorly, but of desiring to capture its essence in a way that does it justice, so it's not cheapened or doesn't lose its meaning.

Anyhow, I cringe when I see past writings because of the vulnerability. Even if no one else sees it, the sheer existence of it is embarrassing to me. I feel so dramatic & silly.... It's like I suddenly have an outside perspective on it. I also hate when it seems cliche or just badly done . My inner critic is turned on when there's been some distance & I'm no longer in the middle of that feeling anymore.
 
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Coriolis

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I think my INFP boyfriend does have this feeling -- it's like he is trying to keep himself 'himself' at all times, like there is just one authentic self, and when he 'strays' from that, he feels bad like he is not being authentic.

Not sure if this all makes sense.
It makes sense to me as an Fi user, even with only tertiary Fi. I can accept that my feelings and values will change over time - that can indicate growth from experience. But I have to understand how and why I got from A to B, otherwise it does seem fickle, an unexplained and potentially counterproductive inconsistency.
 

BlackCat

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This actually doesn't apply to me... I love the idea of expressing my feelings to someone who will understand, and if it matters then I like helping people understand where I'm coming from because usually my feelings come from something that's actually happening/happened. Gotta validate your feelings to be happy one way or another! I try to make mine intelligible to myself and others; I hate having feelings that don't make sense to have.
 

Thalassa

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This actually doesn't apply to me... I love the idea of expressing my feelings to someone who will understand, and if it matters then I like helping people understand where I'm coming from because usually my feelings come from something that's actually happening/happened. Gotta validate your feelings to be happy one way or another! I try to make mine intelligible to myself and others; I hate having feelings that don't make sense to have.

Hmmm I feel that way now that I'm older, and it seems like when I was younger what stopped me was more like embarrassment or protectiveness over the depth and intensity of my feelings, which is why I questioned how much it had to do with unresolved social anxiety...or just Fi being very young and fragile and afraid of being rejected or whatever? But you're younger than me and seem to be pretty balanced with it already.
 

BlackCat

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Hmmm I feel that way now that I'm older, and it seems like when I was younger what stopped me was more like embarrassment or protectiveness over the depth and intensity of my feelings, which is why I questioned how much it had to do with unresolved social anxiety...or just Fi being very young and fragile and afraid of being rejected or whatever? But you're younger than me and seem to be pretty balanced with it already.

I don't I ever really FELT anything otherwise... I mean it was either I was feeling it (expressing) or I just didn't really feel anything toward the person etc. I'd just choose to keep it to myself. I don't think it was out of embarrassment, it just seems like it would have been a waste of time since they wouldn't understand. If I WAS feeling it then it would be more of a "well here is my opinion!" out of no where kind of thing. I rarely actually feel embarrassed or fear that, I feel like rejection is just apart of my daily life since so little people really get me, and I've learned to discern from experience the kinds of people who can "get it". :shrug:
 
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