[Jungian Cognitive Functions] how to give constructive critisizm...

[Istbkleta]

I think I'll add some garlic to the mashed potatoes now.

R u sure u r Fi-Se.

U r all over this forum (17,998 posts) which is more logical to be ur E function.

But Se does not like forums (?)

What in this particular situation would force Se into such a small and boring box? I am curious and am not trolling atm.

 

[Thalassa]

R u sure u r Fi-Se.

U r all over this forum (17,998 posts) which is more logical to be ur E function.

But Se does not like forums (?)

What in this particular situation would force Se into such a small and boring box? I am curious and am not trolling atm.

Well I believe I encountered you in another thread spouting off some baseless imaginary garbage about a woman supposedly cheating just because the OP said she had irrational emotional melt downs, so I'm not sure I trust your assessment of me or anything else. You also were trolling me, saying I wasn't hot in that thread.

One of the other top posters on this forum is an ESTP. [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION].

I think there's a possibility from a functional perspective I could be ESFP. Using more Te with Ni neurosis. I've done a great deal of study and self-examination, so yeah.

I'm not even sure what you mean by small and boring box. I like making garlic mashed potatoes sometimes.

 

[Istbkleta]

Well I believe I encountered you in another thread spouting off some baseless imaginary garbage about a woman supposedly cheating just because the OP said she had irrational emotional melt downs, so I'm not sure I trust your assessment of me or anything else. You also were trolling me, saying I wasn't hot in that thread.

One of the other top posters on this forum is an ESTP. [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION].

I think there's a possibility from a functional perspective I could be ESFP. Using more Te with Ni neurosis. I've done a great deal of study and self-examination, so yeah.

I'm not even sure what you mean by small and boring box. I like making garlic mashed potatoes sometimes.

I don't understand anything. Your thought is a mess.

Could you edit or arrange it in some way. I can't follow the ideas in your post (and it's not because I suck at working in the world of ideas).

Edit: I think, might be otherwise, pls feel free to correct any misunderstanding.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't understand anything. Your thought is a mess.

Could you edit or arrange it in some way. I can't follow the ideas in your post (and it's not because I suck at working in the world of ideas).

Is English not your first language son? Is Se challenging for you?

 

[Istbkleta]

Is English not your first language son? Is Se challenging for you?

Yes to both.

Are you my mother? Or a priest?

 

[Starry]

U r all over this forum (17,998 posts) which is more logical to be ur E function.

I'm totally procrastinating today. Totally putting off all the crap I really should be doing...so I'll respond to this.

Of the top posters on this forum...it is about half and half...E/I. But I've got to be honest with you...I honestly think introverts do better on the forums (on everything really...facebook, etc.) than extroverts. So much of my communication is dependant on 'rapidly bouncing ideas off individuals in the moment' so often times I am challenged to create long meaningful posts in response to long meaningful posts. Okay...not that all posts are long and meaningful... Alls I'm saying is that I kinda notice introverts doing 'better' online.

 

[Thalassa]

Yes to both.

Are you my mother? Or a priest?

I'm from the dirty South, son. I'm just putting you in your place.

You are trolling me, telling me my thoughts are a mess because you don't understand them. That's actually more of an argument for me being ISFP if you don't realize that, Fi/Ni, as opposed to heavy Te structure.

And I don't see what I said that's so esoteric, and it really has nothing to do with "the world of ideas." I essentially recounted factual occurrences (your behavior toward me in another thread, the status of another SP poster with an exceptionally high post count) ...I agreed that it was possible I could be ESFP rather than ISFP based on Jungian function order and Lenore Thomson/Beebe functional orders (also facts many educated people on these sorts of forums know, not really new or esoteric ideas) and then I said I didn't understand why you said I was putting my self in a box just because I was adding to [MENTION=9214]KDude[/MENTION]s joke about mashed potatoes. He was right on, and I think you didn't get the jokes because English isn't your first language.

 

[Istbkleta]

I'm totally procrastinating today. Totally putting off all the crap I really should be doing...so I'll respond to this.

I know EXACTLY what you mean.

If I tell you that I am feeling suicidal today and that's why I am killing time here, what would you think this meant?

Just Curious

Of the top posters on this forum...it is about half and half...E/I. But I've got to be honest with you...I honestly think introverts do better on the forums (on everything really...facebook, etc.) than extroverts. So much of my communication is dependant on 'rapidly bouncing ideas off individuals in the moment' so often times I am challenged to create long meaningful posts in response to long meaningful posts. Okay...not that all posts are long and meaningful... Alls I'm saying is that I kinda notice introverts doing 'better' online.

This seems right at first glance. I also know this feeling about struggling with forums.

Honestly, I wasn't caring that much to begin with. All the arguments I throw at her are full of holes and is mostly Ne dribble. I am waiting to see interesting reactions and maybe find out why she seems different from ISFPs I've seen.

See how low her external stimulation treshold is - she replies very easily. I don't understand why and I think that phrase is important in determining the average NTP's motivation (when bored).

As long as everybody's having fun, right

 

[KDude]

What in this particular situation would force Se into such a small and boring box? I am curious and am not trolling atm.

Both ISP types probably aren't into this sort of thing, generally speaking. They tend to figure things out/analyze on a more experiential basis (i.e. by doing something or being somewhere). It's not easy to make sense of abstract/conceptual subjects like this one (a message board related to psychology and typology). But instead of some of us being disinterested, we want to make sense of it. It's aggravating if we don't.

I think most of us though probably never gave a thought to anything like it when we were younger. I didn't give a shit about figuring myself out - or other people. Things just were what they were. But now it's a problem that needs to be solved.

 

[Thalassa]

I am waiting to see interesting reactions and maybe find out why she seems different from ISFPs I've seen.

Yeah on the Keirsey forum I was told I seem more like a Performer than a Composer. However, that's a persona, not a functional order.

Furthermore, being highly responsive to the external environment could just be Se. IRL I have good responses/reflexes, but I'm actually easily tired out by people talking to me IF it's just random people talking. I actually relate very much to this description:

(From Best Fit ISFP description):

"I’m reserved when I first meet people, but I am friendly, warm, and outgoing once I’ve gotten to know someone. I really enjoy listening to people, hearing other people’s stories and learning about them. I remember a lot of the details. I ask a lot of questions and like the challenge of recognizing where people are coming from and why they might be coming from that perspective. I love the give and take of conversations. I really feel thrilled and excited learning from that intellectual energy combined with that emotional energy. It gives me a sense of the person. In any situation, I love the give and take, the playfulness and energy, the excitement and a little bit of competition, a little bit of one-upsmanship. But when it becomes abrasive and people personally attack others, I’m offended.


I have a lot of interests and I can get interested in one thing, and then something else comes along and that looks fascinating. I enjoy using the skills that I do have, and they’re varied. I’m always on the lookout for something that uses my skills and abilities, that will give me variety and still be stimulating and let me have a mission with people. In my best jobs, I was connecting with people and problem solving and often using tools, adapting equipment or techniques...

I like recognition. It’s very important to get complimented soon after an accomplishment. If something goes unnoticed or unrewarded, it doesn’t have the immediate impact that I want. I’ve been learning my own positive self-talk. I tend to be a workaholic at whatever it is I am doing. You might say I’m a perfectionist. I want people to be impressed with my performance. I don’t want anyone to be unhappy with my performance so I continue to perform, and that is kind of a driving force. It has been a constant struggle to not overdo it. I need a positive environment to work in and I need the people I’m working with to support me."

And this:

PTypes Exuberant (ISFP)

See how low her external stimulation treshold is - she replies very easily. I don't understand why and I think that phrase is important in determining the average NTP's motivation (when bored).

As long as everybody's having fun, right

You may not understand because you may not know many ISFPs who are writers. Maybe the ones you know are better at expressing themselves through a musical instrument or painting or something else.

FWIW, my ESFJ ex used to say I seemed *completely different* in writing, like I seem "smarter." On the other hand, I've had other people recently tell me that they're impressed at my salesmanship like how I'll keep driving on a point and respond very well in the moment to situations as they arise, which may mean I really am an Se dom.

 

[Istbkleta]

I'm from the dirty South, son. I'm just putting you in your place.

You are trolling me, telling me my thoughts are a mess because you don't understand them. That's actually more of an argument for me being ISFP if you don't realize that, Fi/Ni, as opposed to heavy Te structure.

And I don't see what I said that's so esoteric, and it really has nothing to do with "the world of ideas." I essentially recounted factual occurrences (your behavior toward me in another thread, the status of another SP poster with an exceptionally high post count) ...I agreed that it was possible I could be ESFP rather than ISFP based on Jungian function order and Lenore Thomson/Beebe functional orders (also facts many educated people on these sorts of forums know, not really new or esoteric ideas) and then I said I didn't understand why you said I was putting my self in a box just because I was adding to [MENTION=9214]KDude[/MENTION]s joke about mashed potatoes. He was right on, and I think you didn't get the jokes because English isn't your first language.

Well, if u r ISFP and u using Fi-Ni, then u r putting yourself in a box.

How do you get out of a Ni rut?

I always thought it's exercising and stuff for Se, but seeing the disdainful attitude towards Se around.

Where is exactly my place?

EDIT: So right now you should be calling upon thy daemon Ne to defend your weak Ni. According to theory.

 

[Starry]

I know EXACTLY what you mean.

If I tell you that I am feeling suicidal today and that's why I am killing time here, what would you think this meant?

Just Curious



This seems right at first glance. I also know this feeling about struggling with forums.

Honestly, I wasn't caring that much to begin with. All the arguments I throw at her are full of holes and is mostly Ne dribble. I am waiting to see interesting reactions and maybe find out why she seems different from ISFPs I've seen.

See how low her external stimulation treshold is - she replies very easily. I don't understand why and I think that phrase is important in determining the average NTP's motivation (when bored).

As long as everybody's having fun, right

Yah...I didn't really get what you were saying about killing time.

What I was saying was that Marm is probably able to react and respond quickly (quite possibly) because she is an introvert...and doesn't have the sense of being cut-off somehow like I often do (being an extrovert online).

 

[Thalassa]

Well, if u r ISFP and u using Fi-Ni, then u r putting yourself in a box.

How do you get out of a Ni rut?

I always thought it's exercising and stuff for Se, but seeing the disdainful attitude towards Se around.

What are you talking about? I've got plenty of Se, and yes I will go crazy if I don't take a walk, get out in the sun, cook some food, eat, go for a swim, etc.

Right now I'm managing a bunch of animals as I'm posting on the forum, and listening to music.

Where is exactly my place?

Humbled, as you apparently of delusions of your own exaltation, son.

EDIT: So right now you should be calling upon thy daemon Ne to defend your weak Ni. According to theory.

Maybe you should get out of the house more.

 

[garbage]

This thread took a turn for the really, really fuckin' hilarious. I'd recommend that everyone shut the hell up, but I've unsubscribed anyway and so it doesn't really matter to me.

Was that constructive enough?

 

[Istbkleta]

What do you mean managing animals?

Do you live on a farm or work at a pet store or an animal clinic/shelter?

I am very caring and also humble. People say I am like Mother Theresa.

I am taking care of some animals while preparing soup for the poor and taking care of some elderly people in my community.

I take your constructive criticism to heart and will go out of the house.

Also, I take what I said about you not being hot BACK.

You are hot (for a woman your size).


The last one is my gift of humbleness to you, since you were so generous with yours throughout this conversation and my Fe demands I return it

Please know my intentions are mostly neutral and not malicious - this is truth.

 

[Istbkleta]

This thread took a turn for the really, really fuckin' hilarious. I'd recommend that everyone shut the hell up, but I've unsubscribed anyway and so it doesn't really matter to me.

Was that constructive enough?

Hey, not everybody can be as morally strong as you. Stop judging people ... oops

 

[Thalassa]

What do you mean managing animals?

Do you live on a farm or work at a pet store or an animal clinic/shelter?

My work varies from day to day. I do cooking for some elderly/disabled people part-time, privately. I also do sales part-time. Today, there is something going on that I do not wish to go into detail about, but yes I'm managing about 15 animals at the mo.

I am very caring and also humble. People say I am like Mother Theresa.

I am taking care of some animals while preparing soup for the poor and taking care of some elderly people in my community.

I'm not sure what you're even talking about at this point, I'm no Ma Theresa, I'm way too direct and confrontational when need be. I do what's practical and needed in more of an immediate context on the daily, instead of trying to work within a system. This is more natural for my personality, and it fulfills my own need for doing things like cooking creatively and being around pets and of course obtaining money.

I take your constructive criticism to heart and will go out of the house.

Also, I take what I said about you not being hot BACK.

You are hot (for a woman your size).

For a woman my size? What are you even talking about? I get attention from men daily, I have a lover who satisfies me sexually, I don't need your approval. You're probably some ugly dork fapping behind a screen who can't get a gf who behaves nastily toward women on the Internet who don't meet his personal imaginary ideal.

The last one is my gift of humbleness to you, since you were so generous with yours throughout this conversation and my Fe demands I return it

Please know my intentions are mostly neutral and not malicious - this is truth.

Whatever, I think you're a troll.

[MENTION=13880]Istbkleta[/MENTION]: just for clarification: my pant size is 4 or small, and 38 DD bra, and medium shirts. I'm sorry large breasts make you feel intimidated, they're not everyone's cup of tea, but if you think I'm a truly large woman, enough to warrant such comments, you've got some serious issues.

 

[Joehobo]

I would give these tips:

- Don't make it all negative.
When people receive several criticisms at once, to their ears, it can start to sound like, "everything you do is wrong". Regardless of what your actual intentions are, people tend to extrapolate from criticism to a wider context, assuming that it is indicative of your views of their overall behaviour/nature/abilities/flaws - which can lead them to become quite upset and/or defensive. Include some (genuine) compliments or the odd bit of positive re-enforcement to show that you do value them. It's also not a good idea to speak in absolutes or with such certainty - this tends to really grate on people (eg. instead you could add in, "I think that it could be..." or, "Maybe you could try...").

- Remember that there is a difference between honesty and truthfulness.
You might speak in a way that totally adheres to the facts (truthfulness), but this does not make it the moral or decent thing to say (honesty). This isn't to say that honesty has no need for truth, it most certainly does, but openly stating an unnecessary, harsh fact, when it does nothing to improve the situation, is pointless as well as obnoxious. Try to consider how you can say critical things in a way that softens the blow and makes the information more palatable to the other person. It will make them more receptive to what you have to say.*

- Constructive criticism must be primarily for the benefit of the other person - not you.
As [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] said, it's not just an opportunity to bring up all the things about them that annoy you, they do wrong, or that you wish they would change about themselves. You have to ask yourself before saying anything, if telling them this piece of information will genuinely help them (and whether it is your real intention to do so). If it won't, it's just you unloading your frustrations on them, in the guise of constructive criticism (which is incredibly obnoxious and manipulative). If you do want to discuss something about them that is bothering you, make sure you address it as such, and don't try to convince yourself that criticising it is an act of kindness. If you want to do this effectively, remember (that unlike constructive criticism) it is you voicing your issues, not theirs', and accordingly it is better to use "I" and "me" language to describe the problem, rather than "you" (eg. "I feel like..." or, "It's hard for me..." or, "I need...", instead of, "Why can't you..?" or, "You are always...") - this makes it much less confrontational.


*Hypothetical example: You are in a shop with a woman and she tries on a pair of jeans, which clearly make her look rather fat. She then asks you what you think of them; you shouldn't say, "they make you look fat"; instead you say, "I don't think they really suit you". The latter isn't a lie, it's just a more digestible form of the truth.

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, you've just given me an incredible wealth of information which I needed to be reminded of!

 

[Crescent Fresh]

One of the greatest thing which I learned from MBTI is that offering any form of criticism toward an NF (especially from another NF) isn't the best idea as it leads to a greater risk to ruin relationships.

I felt [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] has nailed it by highlighting the difference of honesty and truthfulness. Thanks for posting this btw.