• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NF] NF "telepathy"

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I see. So really it's still about understanding someone's essence, it's just that more specific information may be needed to feed that and not just airy fairy impressions.

Well, I wouldn't call them airy fairy....they are right & often rather "deep" impressions, they just are not the only information, and without the factual bits, there is an incomplete picture. Just as the reverse is true - facts don't tell the whole story either.

Here's a bad metaphor, but I'm struggling to articulate this to those who find it foreign:

It's like seeing a cake & knowing what it tastes like without eating it or being told what kind it is. You just intuitively know what that cake's flavor & texture is. When you eventually taste that cake, then you see you were right. The actual ingredients & processes that go into making it remain unknown. Then one day you learn the factual bits, what's actually in it, how it was made, and it changes your impression of its flavor, even though you were not wrong in what it tastes like. It's not so sweet when you discover the cake factory is rat infested or that the cake has some carcinogenic preservatives. But it technically IS the same cake with the same flavor & texture you previously intuited & then confirmed via interaction with it. But that info is LESS important now that you have the factual info too.
 

Reverie

In orbit
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
291
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx
That's actually a very good metaphor for it. :)
 

ilovelurking

New member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
156
MBTI Type
INFJ
Yes, I more or less agree with this. There's been some discussion here or there on this forum about how (for instance) INFJs and INFPs seem to run into problems because in a lot of ways they do connect and bond in a pretty significant way... So when the major differences do start to show up (Fi/Fe conflict, etc) it can feel like major disillusionment because you sort of expect more from the relationship. You've maybe come to feel that the other will always give you that extra understanding and see things in a similar way.

I tend to get wary when I see subjects like "NF telepathy" (sorry OP, not having a go at you or anything!). It's just that there is a lot of silliness (IMHO) floating around about how INFJs in particularly are "psychic" and "never wrong", etc. Which I just think is...silly. I know that's probably not the main thrust of this thread, though. I do understand about feeling a particular "click" or "flow" with certain people and I think I have probably tended to feel it more so with other NFs - but not exclusively. I don't get to see my INFJ friend who also lives abroad very often any more, but when we email, or when we sometimes get to spend enough time together, we definitely experience that. Lots of those "um...did you just read my mind? :) " moments. I do think it can happen with non-NFs though.

I just question...everything a lot, which is partly the 6 enneagram, I think. I question my "click" (or lack of click) with people, I question the instincts and conclusions that I come to, I question my gut feelings. I've actually realised that my very first gut feelings - like the VERY very first, almost the first few seconds, or at least the first conversation or the first couple of conversations - about someone tend to be right. Sometimes I have had to return (even sadly) to those gut feelings way down the line in my relationship with someone. So I'm trying to listen to my gut feelings and instincts more and trust them more. But it's more natural for me to question everything. Which can, depending on the situation, a) save me some trouble; b) cause more trouble; c) not particularly cause or save me trouble, but just stop me from living in the moment...

Personally, I'd be wary of running a relationship mainly on instinct/big picture. I'd want some of that, for sure, or a lot of that. But I would also want facts. I think both are important.

The bolded - that's what I want too. I find that when it's mostly based on instinct/big picture, there could be a misinterpretation of some sort. And lemme tell you, it had happened several times.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
When I was younger I could form crushes with a vague, idealistic view of the person, but without some concrete connection it is possible to imagine the whole thing, so I'm wary of that.

I have a deep, intuitive, reciprocated connection now in my life. What strikes me about it is the timelessness of it. On some level I feel we have known each other at every stage of life because if you look deeply enough, every moment is embodied in the present. I enjoy learning the concrete facts although I have never been one to ask people a lot of questions. Knowing the specifics articulates that sense of connection and breathes life into it. I've most often been trapped in the distant, idealized, abstract connections, so having every sense filled with the reality of the person is very centering, provides a sense of completion, and provides relief. Although the intuitive connection is my primary point of reference and it would be difficult to imagine interacting with someone on an intimate level without it. Without reciprocation it can make disconnection especially painful and so has two sides to it experientially.
 

Esoteric Wench

Professional Trickster
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
945
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
I find this thread very interesting. It makes me think of how my INFP bff and I interrelate. When we first met, we clicked instantly. We had that magical NF on NF kind of experience which led to a very deep and robust friendship.

Overtime, we both were confronted with facts about the other person that didn't necessarily fit in with our idealized vision of each other. This was hard. It did, at first, seem like our relationship was tarnished a bit. In fact, we went through several months of a cooling off period. At least for me, it took this long for me to incorporate the facts about my INFP into my idealized vision of her. But I eventually did. Now things are wonderful between us once again. I feel like I have the best of both worlds. We still have that special NF bond thing going on. But I also have incorporated enough facts about her into my NF vision of her "essence" that I have a fairly realistic view of what kind of person she is... facts (including flaws) and all.

Great thread [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION]!
 

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I find this thread very interesting. It makes me think of how my INFP bff and I interrelate. When we first met, we clicked instantly. We had that magical NF on NF kind of experience which led to a very deep and robust friendship.

Overtime, we both were confronted with facts about the other person that didn't necessarily fit in with our idealized vision of each other. This was hard. It did, at first, seem like our relationship was tarnished a bit. In fact, we went through several months of a cooling off period. At least for me, it took this long for me to incorporate the facts about my INFP into my idealized vision of her. But I eventually did. Now things are wonderful between us once again. I feel like I have the best of both worlds. We still have that special NF bond thing going on. But I also have incorporated enough facts about her into my NF vision of her "essence" that I have a fairly realistic view of what kind of person she is... facts (including flaws) and all.

Great thread [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION]!

Yeah, great way to look at it. I do think that over-reliance on the "intuitive/facts aren't important" approach could lead to too much idealizing of the other person, and they may be doing the same with you. You're going to have to face "warts and all" sooner or later...
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Not real telepathy.... But no doubt, fellow NFs, you have experienced that NF-on-NF special connection. You get to know each other very quickly, but via vibes, and this creates a quick forming intimacy.

Basically, you know all this stuff about them that they have not told you, but not in factual form. You just *know* the essence of who they are, as if their life, their traits, just who they ARE, have been summed up in a piece of art that hits you viscerally & gives you an understanding of something complex in a simple, well, intuitive way. And when you realize someone has experienced the same thing about you in return, then it can be the most refreshing thing ever, and your guard goes down.

It's like, you know that they know that you know stuff they didn't actually tell you, and they know that you know that they know stuff you didn't actually tell them (nor stuff that is observable in a concrete way). :p

So what's the problem?

There can be such a focus on sharing feelings, emotions, hopes, dreams, visions for the future, exploring who you want to become, etc, & knowing via "vibes" that very little factual info is exchanged. You have this intimacy founded on nothing concrete. This is a problem as those little factual details, which can seem so insignificant & dull to an NF, start to emerge. The big picture is tarnished a bit when these, while making sense in relation to it, make it a tad less, well, ideal. It's not that you didn't understand their essence correctly, it's that you underestimated the importance of those factual details, glossing them over in favor of the potential the person represents.

This doesn't happen so much with SFs because of the tendency to prefer exchanging concrete info. Even thinking types often have a penchant for facts.

What is your experience with this?
Or have you experienced this?
The obvious solution is to push for more factual exchanges, so how do you do this & not fall into that magical telepathic-like mode?

I'm pretty sure most people who are relatively alike would be able to assume things about each other with relative ease. People click when they find a sufficient, satisfactory amount of common ground. Not really an NF thing, but iNtuition and extraverted feeling are applicable in aspects of reading others. As a stand-alone function, seeing the thing in itself, Fi not so much.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm pretty sure most people who are relatively alike would be able to assume things about each other with relative ease. People click when they find a sufficient, satisfactory amount of common ground. Not really an NF thing, but iNtuition and extraverted feeling are applicable in aspects of reading others. As a stand-alone function, seeing the thing in itself, Fi not so much.

This isn't about "cliquing", it's about knowing things, especially of a personal & emotional nature, without exchange of factual information or through observance of actual behavior.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yeah, great way to look at it. I do think that over-reliance on the "intuitive/facts aren't important" approach could lead to too much idealizing of the other person, and they may be doing the same with you. You're going to have to face "warts and all" sooner or later...

Sometimes it works the other way too....facts can soften an impression & open you to someone you might unfairly write off otherwise.
 
N

NPcomplete

Guest
I have had connections like this with other people, mostly NFJs and NTPs (though that also could be because most of my closest friends are of those types). I enjoy those clicks even if at the same time I feel somewhat transparent around those friends. Then again, I am probably as transparent to my "telepathy-mates" as they are to me. Hopefully... :thinking:

This isn't about "cliquing", it's about knowing things, especially of a personal & emotional nature, without exchange of factual information or through observance of actual behavior.

This rings particularly true for me. I like the feeling that I'm "understood" and that I don't [always] have to go through the tediousness of saying and explaining everything. "Knowing" them at that level also makes it easier to trust them. Sometimes it even feels like we're sharing the same (or at least similar) mental landscapes and it makes it easier to play around, explore and even expand the boundaries. :)

In spite of the transparency and everything that it entails, I don't generally assume that we're completely similar (vanity perhaps? :p). I did, however, recently find myself at the receiving end of this assumption. I have a very close friend who I share this telepathy-shenanigan with (I'm 90 % convinced that he's an INFJ). We often get into very long discussions and being cryptic and lazy, we don't always share our mental processes. It has generally been quite obvious to me that his methods are more humanistic than my own utilitarian technology-crazed methods but [I suppose] our "telepathy" and the fact that we often reach the same conclusions have led him to believe otherwise. As a result, he was quite shocked to discover the differences and I think, he still doesn't believe me. :p (We like those differences though - more things to play with!)

And at least I haven't been doorslammed yet! :ninja:
 

Reverie

In orbit
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
291
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx
I'm pretty sure most people who are relatively alike would be able to assume things about each other with relative ease. People click when they find a sufficient, satisfactory amount of common ground. Not really an NF thing, but iNtuition and extraverted feeling are applicable in aspects of reading others. As a stand-alone function, seeing the thing in itself, Fi not so much.

This isn't about "cliquing", it's about knowing things, especially of a personal & emotional nature, without exchange of factual information or through observance of actual behavior.

I find the way Fi-Ne susses out people fascinating, because it's foreign to me. My husband is an ENFP and he's very good at figuring our people's character. We always agree though I'm suspecting the way we get there is different:
I suppose in MBTI talk Ni and Se work in tandem, external observation interpreted as signifiers of something archetypal paired with Fe which really is feeling other people's feelings (that is how it feels like) taking in that information and all that lumped together subconsciously processes to create an overall image of the situation and person...
How does Fi-Si and Ne work???

As Ni Fe goes I think ENFJs are the people experts. I feel other's feelings in my gut, in my body, so strongly that I could almost pictorally represent different feelings and mine is just aux Fe. I can't imagine how intimately and intricately dom Fe works. To me my aux fe is almost too overpowering at times. ;)
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Honestly, I wouldn't believe it actually exists, except that people have said they feel that way, so I trust them on that. For me, it would be wishful thinking / delusion if I were to imagine such things.
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I find the way Fi-Ne susses out people fascinating, because it's foreign to me. My husband is an ENFP and he's very good at figuring our people's character. We always agree though I'm suspecting the way we get there is different:
I suppose in MBTI talk Ni and Se work in tandem, external observation interpreted as signifiers of something archetypal paired with Fe which really is feeling other people's feelings (that is how it feels like) taking in that information and all that lumped together subconsciously processes to create an overall image of the situation and person...
How does Fi-Si and Ne work???
It seems to me that NFJs form/receive an immediate, strong, instinctual impression (Ni), which comes together with a immediate, clear, definitive, broad interpretation (Fe). I can't do this, I need more time to collate all the information and make sense of it before I can form a opinion. Even if someone asks me if I want a cup of tea, I have to pause and consult my feelings ("hmmm, do I want to drink tea?" :thinking: ) and the person is left standing there tapping their feet waiting for an answer - although I do sometimes say yes or no before I know for certain out of politeness (hoping it will turn out to be the right decision). :D

To use an analogy: imagine someone dumps a 100 piece puzzle on a table. The pieces are all randomly scattered, partially obscured, and some are upside down. A NFP and NFJ then look at the pieces and try to determine what the picture on it could be.

The NFJ takes a look for a short time and then says, "It's a picture of ____". She then elaborates on what other details are likely to be in the picture based on what hints she perceives and other reasonable assumptions. She may then choose to put together the puzzle anyway and see how correct she was. She might not have all the details 100% accurate but she may be remarkably correct in general and on to the right line of thinking; however she can also confuse the two, thinking they are the same thing (ie. generally correct = accurate details) or if she assumes her instincts are always directly aligned with reality.

The NFP, however, may not get a reading on what it is straight away, or if she does, it's vague and she wants to test or clarify it before committing to it. She thinks the NFJ interpretation may be correct but imagines the same hints suggesting a thousand other possibilities as well. She spreads the pieces out, turns them up the right way, and starts comparing them to each other; grouping them together based on common colours, tones, shapes, and textures she perceives. She starts to form a few small clusters (perhaps of indistinct images) and perceives interrelating patterns; becoming increasingly confident in an interpretation. It is then that she ventures to guess what it is, what the other missing elements may entail and how they relate to one another. This means she can be more accurate in her guess but she can also get way off base if she puts the pieces together incorrectly or if she allows subjective interpretations to colour her evaluation.

The resulting difference between the two is in the length of time it takes to get a clear impression (Ni vs. Ne) and in how decisive they were about that (Fe vs. Fi). NFJs focus on their gut reaction (Ni) which responds to strong instantaneous perceptions (Se) and is based on common shorthand interpretation (Fe). NFPs need to build up a series of patterns (Ne) and then use each one to establish a foundation or springboard (Si) in order to form more patterns, all of which is based on a case by case interpretation (Fi).
 

Reverie

In orbit
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
291
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx
Thank you :) That helped a lot. I've been wondering about the difference. I pretty much know how I operate (to the degree it's possible) but the Ne-Si-Fi I had a hard time wrapping my head around. I loved the puzzle analogy. :)
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Thank you :) That helped a lot. I've been wondering about the difference. I pretty much know how I operate (to the degree it's possible) but the Ne-Si-Fi I had a hard time wrapping my head around. I loved the puzzle analogy. :)
I'm glad. :)

Although, I must add the disclaimer (which is appropriate given the subject ;) ) that this is merely my perspective and it's quite possible that other NFPs will disagree with me.
 
Top