[INFJ] INFJ Hate Thread

[Griffi97]

Noting this thread is dominated by INFJ's expressing self-hatred...

That's an interesting observation. As for the stuff I posted, it's mostly just things I've heard other people say about me (moreso very close friends and family rather than casual friends), and they seem frustrated by those things. I really don't feel any self-hatred over them. It's sometimes hard for me to understand why other people get frustrated with me. Maybe this thread will shed some light on that.

At any rate, I'm proud of the person I am, and I think there's a lot to love here. Sorry, it's the Hate an INFJ thread, carry on with the criticisms!

 

[zarc]

finally got through !_!

Really?

By using the term passive resistance are you are refering to Gandhi's philosophy and practice of Satyagraha?

If so, how does choosing not to inflict violence upon one's opponent, but rather exercising patience and sympanthy, realizing what appears to be truth to one may appear to be error to the other, exist outside the realm of what an INFJ's manner of working could be?

Nope. I merely meant by passive resistance, that one isn't *doing* anything by being passive - by not being active/Fe-ing to 'organize', so it doesn't seem an INFJ would use it as a first choice of getting their point across. And that isn't to say that by not choosing so, that an INFJ is willing to inflict violence against someone. I shall continue below~

Would you passively resist? Or something else?

Just fuel for thought.

That's what I was, in my sleepy-drunken haze, getting at. I can't see INFJs as passively resisting, in that they'd *Fe* out and try to tell people what they *should* do, even if wrongly, whereas INFPs are more likely to show by example and not push people. Live, let live.

Ghandi seemed to be an INFJ. He was actually a very self-disciplined taskmaster with very stringent guidelines for himself and his followers. His rigidity seemed to show up in the external world, even if internally he had lots of vision about how the world could be. Just... amazing how controlled he had his life, and down to a script. (No WAY an INFP could have survived more than a few days in that setting, the Ne needs far more flex -- but that was his life.)

INFPs can be very self-disciplined, with their beliefs and ideals, for sure. If he had his life down to a script, as you say, then that doesn't seem INFJ to me either. INFJs aren't, or I wouldn't consider them to be, eh, so controlling that they'd have their life down to a script. Sure, disciplined, but not so rigidly so, or for an incredibly extended amount of time...

That's okay. Even INFJs can be wrong sometimes.

Whatchu talking about?! Bite your tongue!

Nope. He was an INFJ. I think you are getting ENFJs mixed up with INFJs. We don't "rally up" people. We live by our own principles and expect others to do so also. That was the epitome of Gandhi. "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Fe is about diplomacy, not organizing people.

Nope, not mixing them up. When I meant rally, I didn't mean it with high energy, if that's what you're thinking. I meant that we'd tell others what they should do, that they should get involved. Fe IS about organizing people as well. It's a Judging Function.


SH. Fluffed, I think not. What happened was what silly INFJs do! We found a new point to play with, focused on it and made a serious discussion with others to play with as well! We should split this thread, yea. And continue discussing Gandhi's potential Type, if people are up to it. Who knows, maybe there can be other types people can argue for?!

Somewhat aside, I can sooner see Hitler as an INFJ than Gandhi one...

 

[matmos]

My SO is INFJ and has not many faults but the one's she has are big ones:
* Extreme lack of tolerance. It's mostly black and white and once they've decided, that's it. I thought my J was bad, compared to INFJs it's a walk in the park.
* Internalises people's behaviour and takes things far too personally.
* Becomes highly irrational in arguments they feel passionately about. Consequently look foolish and loose the argument for all the wrong reasons.
* Can never justify their intuition. This extends to immediately disliking people for reasons you'll never fathom. Can't get their head around the idea of rapor - you don't have to take a shine to someone to lower yourself to speaking to them.
* Stressed INFJs are mere blubbering blobs of jelly. I seriously doubt whether they can deal with extreme pressure and capitulate quickly in scenarios NTs would simply find amusing or challenging... funerals, redundancies, illness!

I love 'em none the less! ^~

 

[sunnyraining]

Wouldn't you just love a time machine right about now? *pops back into the past to inquire Gandhi's type* *pops back to the present* Yep!
(I wouldn't do it for Hitler though unless you want to be shot at by the SS ).

Anyway to roll the thread back to it's core:

I haven't met many other INFJs so I'll bag out myself -
- Awkward silences in social situations until I try to break ice with something absurdedly high minded or deep (because I can think of nothing else). Usually people run away about then, making me feel like an idiot
- Tend to fight tooth and nail for things I believe in with rational arguments albeit supported mostly by generalisations with a touch of naivete - conflicts are rare though
- Am often the fence sitter and am indecisive when it comes to everyday things; matters that matter are a totally different story
- Am sometimes aloof and seemingly distant; can go for extended periods of solitude (which is a good thing) until loneliness sets in (it happens eventually) and then extended periods of brooding

 

[Motor Jax]

i know this girl that plays on the pool league that i do

anyways, observing her mannerisms and such, i believe her to be an INFJ

and she's quite a bit aloof, other than that though, i don't have a problem


myself, i tend to stick to my guns

and argue that my position is right, though i cannot say why. it's just there

 

[Motor Jax]

oh, and i don't really care for the specifics, i just want the whole picture

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Unless they are in "humour mode" (which is inevitably contextually appropriate) they are a pretty humourless bunch. "Humour mode" does not appear to be the default mode. Some INFJs seem to lack it altogether, although the type is hardly unique in this.

And that bloodyminded drive for closure in areas of disagreement can be very wearing. They can't seem to agree to disagree until they have 1) had the last word (and not just any last word - a satisfyingly decisive last word) or 2) phrased your agreement to disagree as an agreement for you to willfully choose to ignore all sense and wallow in wrong-minded, selfish and morally-abhorrent ignorance.

Still, "hate" is a strong word. Those are the 2 main things that irritate me about INFJs.

 

[wedekit]

This was my biggest problem with the one i dated, I even showed her MBTI tests and after she was able to read about herself she still wouldnt open up. Its clearly states in several definitions of INFJ's that their biggest fault is the "shell" that they form around themselves and how all it will do is hold them back. She liked MBTI and thought it made perfect sense and clearly depicted her but even then she refused to open up to me, and as an ENFP in an intimate relationship this drove me almost insane and caused me to break up with her.

Well, yes, having a shell is probably the trait of an INFJ that bothers some people the most. However, I honestly don't think it is a bad thing, and I don't recall it being the INFJ's biggest fault. I believe their cardinal fault is having high (or "idealistic") expectations for themselves and others. Having high expectations for myself causes me to close off information about myself because I don't know if I am able to live up to those expectations and I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite. Introverts in general require certain degrees of privacy, anyways. I don't find it surprising that she didn't "open up" when you called it to her attention. Those kinds of things take time and must happen naturally to have the effect you want. If she was anything like me, it probably made her close herself up even more.

But yeah, some of the bad things listed are actually things I'm slightly proud of. I've gone from being timid and awkward to being more comfortable in my own skin, which has allowed me to have enough confidence in myself to hold firm beliefs that I stick to. Sometimes I even feel like my stubbornness isn't noticeable enough .

The one thing I do that makes me kick myself often is that I often turn down people's offers to go to a party or go do something off campus. Sometimes I question how much good my "alone time" really does me. It seems like people who are more open to those kinds of fun are... happier? I don't know.

But yeah. INFJs are lame.

 

[Dark Razor]

[...]

[...]

Awww, whenever I read one of you guys' post I want to hug you real tight .

Damn, now I have fluffed up this thread, again.

I may post some of our so called "negative" traits later on.

 

[faith]

* Stressed INFJs are mere blubbering blobs of jelly. I seriously doubt whether they can deal with extreme pressure and capitulate quickly in scenarios NTs would simply find amusing or challenging... funerals, redundancies, illness!

I think I manage when it comes to impersonal stress; not great, but I can handle it. The stress of unhappy interpersonal relations is a different story, though.

As a teacher, every day I work to develop the ability to stay cool and in control. It's difficult for me. The best way so far is just to shut down the Fe entirely--to quit caring about anyone or anything. It feels like slaying my soul, however, and is definitely taking its toll outside of the classroom. I'm not convinced it's worth the lingering consequences in the long run. There are some things I just suck at, and not caring is one of them.

 

[Thursday]

I find peace in being a taciturn who occasionally extroverts
but its hard though,
in that i cannot relate to others
or rather, i will not
for i have yet to find someone that i can relate to on a level that i want to
no more an INFJ qualm than an idealistic person's poblem
and.....
watching people play " guess who " with my behaviour and mannerisms is quite amusing
for they are completely and idiotically off base
perhaps i am a snob ?
no
just an INFJ
some would say that is the same thing
and due to subjectivity, who am I to argue with that ?

 

[Carebear]

Nope. I merely meant by passive resistance, that one isn't *doing* anything by being passive - by not being active/Fe-ing to 'organize', so it doesn't seem an INFJ would use it as a first choice of getting their point across. And that isn't to say that by not choosing so, that an INFJ is willing to inflict violence against someone. I shall continue below~

That's what I was, in my sleepy-drunken haze, getting at. I can't see INFJs as passively resisting, in that they'd *Fe* out and try to tell people what they *should* do, even if wrongly, whereas INFPs are more likely to show by example and not push people. Live, let live.

I think you misunderstand Ghandi's idea of passive resistance. It was never passive in the way you seem to think, quite the opposite. He did Fe to 'organize' and had perfectionistic ideals both he and the people around him had to follow. It was only passive in that it was non-violent. He only led by example where he couldn't tell people directly how to live, and was not a live and let live guy, or he hadn't followed such a rigid course both publicly in SA and India and privately.

INFPs can be very self-disciplined, with their beliefs and ideals, for sure. If he had his life down to a script, as you say, then that doesn't seem INFJ to me either. INFJs aren't, or I wouldn't consider them to be, eh, so controlling that they'd have their life down to a script. Sure, disciplined, but not so rigidly so, or for an incredibly extended amount of time...

Hm... are you saying he can't be neither INFP nor INFJ because of this or that he's more likely INFP because they can be more diciplined with their beliefs and ideals than INFJs? I disagree with the latter. I think both can be very diciplined, but INFJs more so than INFPs.

Nope, not mixing them up. When I meant rally, I didn't mean it with high energy, if that's what you're thinking. I meant that we'd tell others what they should do, that they should get involved. Fe IS about organizing people as well. It's a Judging Function.

And Ghandi did exactly that. Organizing boycots and strikes, getting people to use Indian spun cotton instead of British etc. The movie might portray him more as an INFP, but in reality he looks very J.

Somewhat aside, I can sooner see Hitler as an INFJ than Gandhi one...

Building walls around your position I see?

 

[zarc]

I think you misunderstand Ghandi's idea of passive resistance. It was never passive in the way you seem to think, quite the opposite. He did Fe to 'organize' and had perfectionistic ideals both he and the people around him had to follow. It was only passive in that it was non-violent. He only led by example where he couldn't tell people directly how to live, and was not a live and let live guy, or he hadn't followed such a rigid course both publicly in SA and India and privately.

Yes, his organizing outside of the 'passive resistance' would seem to be Fe, in how he did it. I probably have misunderstood it, then. It's just the idea of it I'm griping with, not his overall history as I don't recall it well in detail.

Hm... are you saying he can't be neither INFP nor INFJ because of this or that he's more likely INFP because they can be more diciplined with their beliefs and ideals than INFJs? I disagree with the latter. I think both can be very diciplined, but INFJs more so than INFPs.

Not that he'd be more of an INFP because of his being more diciplined with beliefs and ideals... nor that INFPs would be more diciplined than INFJs, in general. I'd think INFJs more initially of being so too. Just that, if he had his life down to a script, it being so rigid and exact, then I wouldn't think so of either.

And Ghandi did exactly that. Organizing boycots and strikes, getting people to use Indian spun cotton instead of British etc. The movie might portray him more as an INFP, but in reality he looks very J.

I don't buy the J/P stereotypes, if you mean that Js are more likley to be organized than Ps, etc. It's been said, though, that NJs are said to be more like P The weakest of the Js, oh noes!

Building walls around your position I see?

lol Just playing around. I'm not taking this as seriously as it might seem I am However, I won't change my mind until I read more about him and learn of his Interaction Style, among other things. I just don't care to do it right now (and don't have time to anyway T_T).

 

[heart]

Ghandi does not have Fi eyes. Case closed for me. INFJ.

Kierkegaard INFP, writing under pennames to reach individuals on a one to one level about the deepest issues in their nature. That's Fi.

 

[tovlo]

Nope. I merely meant by passive resistance, that one isn't *doing* anything by being passive - by not being active/Fe-ing to 'organize', so it doesn't seem an INFJ would use it as a first choice of getting their point across. And that isn't to say that by not choosing so, that an INFJ is willing to inflict violence against someone. I shall continue below~

My sense is that your argument is less about Gandhi than it is about someone who "passively resists" according to your idea of passive resistance, which as you describe it does not describe Gandhi's history.

I feel CareBear adequately addressed the issues I felt were being misunderstood about Gandhi's life in your assessment.

My main goal in engaging with you was not to argue for one type or another, but to point out misunderstandings in your assumptions and also to engage the idea that typing others, historical or not, based only on observable externalized behavior interpreted through a narrow personalized criteria of what a particular type must look like is a tenuous affair.

 

[zarc]

My sense is that your argument is less about Gandhi than it is about someone who "passively resists" according to your idea of passive resistance, which as you describe it does not describe Gandhi's history.

I realised that as well. It was the idea of passive resistance which I just focused on.

My main goal in engaging with you was not to argue for one type or another, but to point out misunderstandings in your assumptions and also to engage the idea that typing others, historical or not, based only on observable externalized behavior interpreted through a narrow personalized criteria of what a particular type must look like is a tenuous affair.

Beautifully worded. I have no complaints. I mostly was playing, but I do know that I can narrow down on something and become stubborn about it, if I'm not careful in maintaining an open minded view. Anyhoo, it was fun! Thank you for engaging me~

 

[tovlo]

Beautifully worded. I have no complaints. I mostly was playing, but I do know that I can narrow down on something and become stubborn about it, if I'm not careful in maintaining an open minded view. Anyhoo, it was fun! Thank you for engaging me~

Thank you for being a good sport.

 

[colmena]

I don't know how anyone could 'hate' an INFJ. Even their less appealing points are endearing human imperfections.

Is their conscience elitist?

 

[MetalWounds]

INFJs, trough the use of dominant Ni, possess the same abstract perception of reality that INTJs do. The "problem" arises with their aux. use of Fe, which unlike Te, doesn't classify their perceptions as a possible truth, be instead applies it as the truth. Not only does it seek to classify something as either "good" or "bad", it also seeks to apply this perception to other people. INFJs suffer from a limited view of the possibilities in this aspect, and it has led to a lot of conflict between myself and others. They perceive something as the truth and likewise any other view, however plausible is ruled out and met with extreme resistance. Disagree with an INFJ and they will likely tell you that you "have no conceince", because any view they take has to be the ultimate moral truth. I've noted that INFJs are among the types that are least likely to be able to weigh a reality in an objective manner.

 

[Eileen]

I've noted that INFJs are among the types that are least likely to be able to weigh a reality in an objective manner.

Eh, as an INFJ, I believe that I simply recognize that objectivity is largely impossible anyway. I'm pretty darn good at observing the multifarious subjectivities of reality without being excessively judgmental of them, though.