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[MBTI General] E's dating I's...who has the bigger sacrifice?

2XtremeENFP

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Man alive, tonight was a rough one.
I'm an ENFP engaged to an ISTJ (as I'm sure you've seen my posts around here...)

Anyways, here's what happened tonight...

I thoroughly enjoy hanging out with friends, indoors, outdoors, bars, concerts, house parties, get togethers... anything! I enjoy spending hours with people. I can't go for just "an hour" because I feel like I'm just getting started. I'm floating around the room, I'm taking it in, I'm playing catch up. I'm doing all the "S" type of things. After the first hour or so, then the fun begins for me. I get to know people, We talk about stories, Ideas, the news, deeper things...that's the best part! I love just spending quality time with groups of people. Really, all it takes is 4 or more and I'm on fire!

He just doesn't get it. One hour is enough. He can't handle being in a bar, or really, any place that plays "music that is loud enough to compete with conversation". I never notice if the music is too loud or not, I just adjust my senses and get on with it. If he isn't actively involved during a social outting, he can't handle it. He needs to be playing a game or completing a task, or he finds it pointless and boring.

The issue is that he feels that as a couple, we need to spend these outtings together. If I want to stay, and he wants to leave, he believes I should leave, since we already spent time at the gathering. Why stay? We've already been here for X amount of time. He says that during gatherings, he doesn't want me to go alone, he wants to go. But when he goes, he doesn't have fun, and then I can't have fun. I ask him to just pass on going on the event and I'll go with friends, and he doesn't want to do that because that's "not what couples do". Once we are married, he already voiced that he feels he will be more strict with this value. That it's only right if married people do everything together.

But with this value, no one is really having fun, ya know? I can't enjoy myself because I know he doesn't want to be there. I don't want to leave early because I am enjoying myself and then he doesn't want to stay. I understand there needs to be compromise -- but I don't feel loved by self-sacrifice. Why should he feel "happy" that I sacrificed my happiness to leave a party early. Why should I feel "loved" that he stayed out for 3 hours when he didn't enjoy any bit of it.

Is sacrifice like this worth it? How can I get him to understand that it's okay for a couple to do different things without each other? How can I get him to understand that one hour isn't enough for me?

I feel guilty... he met me and our friends at a bar for 2 hours (wanted to leave after one), I had already been there an hour, so I ended up staying for 3 hours all together. He got mad that I didn't want to leave when he wanted too and that he thinks I don't sacrifice enough for him. He thinks it's stupid that people enjoy talking at bars for hours. We both went to our separate houses after this argument at around 1 in the morning. I'm still energized, so I went out to more bars and met some more friends until 3 in the morning. Keep in mind, I don't really drink at all. Maybe 1 or 2 drinks if I go out. I know when I tell him that I didn't get enough time with people and went back out, he is going to think i'm crazy.

Am I crazy? Who has a harder time dealing with this? E's or I's?
 

iwakar

crush the fences
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This is not just an E/I issue. Not by a long shot. I don't think extraverts or introverts inherently sacrifice more for the sake of companionship or social relationships. It is entirely based on the individual.
 

Ponyboy

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This is not just an E/I issue. Not by a long shot. I don't think extraverts or introverts inherently sacrifice more for the sake of companionship or social relationships. It is entirely based on the individual.

I agree with that. Hate to say it but the OP sounds more like 2 people with incompatible interests rather than an MBTI thing.
 

iwakar

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Compatibility and interests have strong trend correlations to type, but genuine compromise correlates to maturity.
 

Ponyboy

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Compatibility and interests have strong trend correlations to type, but genuine compromise correlates to maturity.

OK, yes that is true. However there are 3 things that I just don't see in the OP: Compatibility, (mutual) interests, and genuine compromise.
 

River

flowing quietly by
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Once we are married, he already voiced that he feels he will be more strict with this value

Oh dear. Looking forward to the incoming leash?



Yes, as the above posters have stated not an I/E thing.

Why must you feel guilty for doing something you enjoy? Why must you live in one another's pockets? No one person can fulfill all your needs and the constant struggle between your need for freedom and his for control will cause serious resentment.

Are you willing to leave behind the part of you that enjoys a good night out? Replace parties with perhaps a church social?


If it were me I'd sit him down and say that i need to be free. As a caged bird I'll lose my feathers and cease to be the bubbly woman he fell in love with. If he says that's fine you need to grow up.... RUN!
 

gandalf

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As it's already been said, I don't think this is an I/E issue.

I think this can be explained with help of typology but it needs more than one letter taken into consideration.

ISTJs, as far as I know, are all about doing as has been done earlier (not what the ISTJ has done but how the ISTJ thinks has been done and is being done in general). Now, if the OP's ISTJ has the conception that couples are supposed to spent a lot of time together and also attend social events together, then what the OP described makes perfect sense to me. The ISTJ is just doing what he thinks must be done (what HAS been done).

This is just guessing but I think it would do good for the OP to get to know the ISTJ archetype to get to better understand what's going on in his mind. To me, this sounds like it's up to the ISTJ whether he wants to re-evaluate his conceptions regarding what must be done.
 

INTP

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He is the one being crazy imo. I dont understand whats the problem with him about you being in different location than him, unless its some extreme jealousy that he doesent want to tell you about. Anyways i think his way of thinking is really unhealthy and only either restricts you from having fun(makes you misarable in the long run) or causes unneccesary arguments because of his selfish Fi therefore making both miserable.

Its not you whos to blame and who needs to change(please try to remember that). I would suggest doing things your way and if he cant handle that and gets mad all the time, then he cant handle you. You should train him properly with this before you marry him or you might regret the whole marriage later.

Ps. Im assuming that you two spend reasonable amounts of time together without other people.
 

rhinosaur

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^ I agree. He needs to come to terms with the fact that you two don't always enjoy the same thing, and that's OK. He doesn't always have to be there. Heck, some of my friends have never even met my wife. ;)
 

TenebrousReflection

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I agree on the notion of compatibility that others brought up. I consider myself to be very introverted, and if I'm forced to endure a lot of social time with people I have no common interests to talk about, then its extremely boring - conversation for the sake of conversation is probably what your SO finds "stupid" (I would call it "pointless" rahter than "stupid", but its basicall the same notion). However, if I am at a social gathering with friends that have similar interests, then I can go all day without really thinking about it (I may be very tired and worn out the next day tho) - its only theoretical, but I probably enter a Ne or Te mode because I do find such times enjoyable while they are occuring.

I can relate to his sense that spending time together is the right thing to do as a couple (I think thats a fairly natural thing to feel in a relationship, but it does surprise me that a T would not be more pragmatic about it - I forgot that Si is the dominant function of ISTJs so that does makes sense), but for him to ask that you comply with his wishes to leave early is extremely selfish. He should be able to see that you are enjoying yourself, and if he cares about you, your happiness should be important to him, and he should be willign to silently sacrifice his happiness for yours, but thats just my opinion... You have offered to not make him attend, so I think you have done what you can as far as that goes.
 

skylights

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he doesn't want to do that because that's "not what couples do". Once we are married, he already voiced that he feels he will be more strict with this value. That it's only right if married people do everything together.

yeah i think this is basically the problem right here. i would challenge this in a calm and rational manner... why should couples do everything together? isn't it actually more healthy if you have some separate interests? your time extraverting can be extra relaxation time for him.

as for evidence to the contrary, my ESFJ mom and INTP dad will frequently do this - dad will make an appearance, then make himself scarce, while mom sticks around. and their marriage is 30+ years and counting.
 

Billy

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Bad chemistry, re-examine what your relationship is built on and put the wedding on hold.
 

Engineer

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Going to have to agree with the others here.
As an INTJ with a lot of S tendencies, I can somewhat understand where your fiancee is coming from, but his methods of handling the situation are overly controlling and definitely something that will not work out in a long-term relationship (like marriage). I, too, often got bored when my extroverted ex-SO used to drag me out to meet people and do things, but it was made clear up front that she wanted me to be there and that my presence would make her happy, so I did my best to enjoy myself and not leave early.
And, funnily enough, every time that happened, I usually found a few like-minded people to talk to by the time she would swoop around to see how I was doing. And that made her much happier.
The issue, here, it seems-- and pardon my advice-giving-- is one of how you two as a couple view "sacrifice." Obviously, him being at a gathering you want to attend is not much of a sacrifice to you. To him--and this is the interesting part-- it is for some reason. If he is really as difficult as you describe him (ENFPs can be prone to a bit of exaggeration when they're peeved at someone, I should know), then you need to have a serious talk with him about your future.

This is not just an interest issue, this is a socialization issue tainted with hints of control problems (IxTJs get draconian if they're worried or operating out of bad territory). If you don't want to end up having to limit your interactions to an hour each, you need to sit down and talk this through with him. Explain in detail how you feel, and why you feel that way. See if you can compromise, or maybe win him over to your point of view.

Though, to be frank, if he really wants to be with an ENFP, particularly you, he should be willing to sacrifice the occasional extra hour or three, or at the very least, be comfortable with the fact that you aren't going to leave your friends just because he's had enough socializing for the day.

Again, speaking as an I-type, this shouldn't even be an issue. Don't be afraid to stick up for yourself.
 

Istbkleta

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How do you deal with the silence after you've said something and he is digesting?

I get an urge to fill it with more sound but stop and make an effort. Thing is it feels like my brain is dying on the inside.
 

Elfboy

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sacrifice is stupid. if you have to sacrifice a lot in a relationship, get another one
 

Southern Kross

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Reminds me a little bit of an article I recently read on Psychologytoday.com. Apparently it doesn't matter if you are very different in some ways if you maintain the communication lines. Here's an interesting portion with a real life example of a couple:

Psychology Today - Are You with the Right Mate? said:
What's most noticeable about Sarah and Mark Holdt of Estes Park, Colorado, is their many differences. "He's a Republican, I'm a Democrat. He's a traditional Christian, I'm an agnostic. He likes meat and potatoes, I like more adventurous food," says Sarah. So Mark heads off to church and Bible study every week, while Sarah takes a "Journeys" class that considers topics like the history of God in America. "When he comes home, I'll ask, 'What did you learn in Bible Study?'" she says. And she'll share her insights from her own class with him.

But when Sarah wants to go to a music festival and Mark wants to stay home, "I just go," says Sarah. "I don't need to have him by my side for everything." He's there when it matters most—at home, at the dinner table, in bed. "We both thrive on touch," says Sarah, "so we set our alarm a half hour early every morning and take that time to cuddle." They've been married for 14 years.

It takes a comfortable sense of self and deliberate effort to make relationships commodious enough to tolerate such differences. What's striking about the Holdts is the time they take to share what goes on in their lives—and in their heads—when they are apart. Research shows that such "turning toward" each other and efforts at information exchange, even in routine matters, are crucial to maintaining the emotional connection between partners.

Say one partner likes to travel and the other doesn't. "If you view this with a feeling of resentment, that's going to hurt, over and over again," says Doherty. If you can accept it, that's fine—provided you don't start living in two separate worlds.
 

Unique

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Firstly, he is an introvert, not antisocial correct?

He charges from his alone time so WHERE is he expelling his social energy if not while you guys are out? Not only this, but introverts 'mini charge' all the time even while they are socializing just by going into their own head briefly.

My point is this doesn't sound like an E/I issue in the slightest, 1 hour is an awfully short time for going out by anyone's standard and he shouldn't expect you to sacrifice your good time just so you two are "together all the time" which is ridiculously naive and unrealistic sentiment.
 

ilovelurking

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Like what others have mentioned, it's an interest compatibility thing - instead of an E/I issue.

I'd be SO happy if I get time alone and my E is out there.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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Taking into account that we are only hearing one side of this relationship (and based on the other threads started with the same theme) my conclusion is that this is a relationship with two immature individuals that should not marry each other.

Marriage is about compromise above all else which will involve some sacrifice and bending of the self. It should not be done as an eradication of the self. Like what other people stated and quoted... If two people have different dynamics that are important to each of them, then a creative solution needs to be found.

For me when I have dated extroverts I have given them free reign to spend loads of time with their friends doing whatever loud crazy dumb stuff they want to. I take that time and use it for myself to be alone. Win-win-win.
 

iwakar

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For me when I have dated extroverts I have given them free reign to spend loads of time with their friends doing whatever loud crazy dumb stuff they want to. I take that time and use it for myself to be alone. Win-win-win.

Yep. I'm dating an ENFP and this is precisely what I do. While I watch Netflix, he goes out with his friends and parties like it's 1999... and then he comes home when his stomach is in knots because he decided to be the belle of the ball and shotgun 12 blazin' hot buffalo wild wings for a free t-shirt.

:dry:
 
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