[Fi] Fi & Marriage - Cemented Fi & needs changed

[2XtremeENFP]

Always felt my Fi is very strong, perhaps even so strong that it may be warped...

I've built so much of an identify and branded myself with certain ideals while I was single and now that I am getting married, it's like I am going against my old self, and having to do things that I always prided myself on things and forgot how it adjusts when you get married...and now it's difficult to accept.

Let me try and explain:

I know this will sound warped but hopefully it makes sense and no one judges or takes offense to what I am saying...

Most all revolves around my faith. I am a Christian and try and live the lifestyle of how I am called to be. I am well into my 20s and still a virgin & am waiting until my wedding night.

I've had it built in my mind and always made an example to my friends of what kind of life a person can have if they refrain from having sex in a relationship. All of my friends know me as the girl who doesn't have sex. hahah and I like it! I take pride in the fact that I have refrained from it after dating my fiance for 8 years! We both are virgins and our Fi is so proud of our choice.

It's now hard for me to break that ideal. It's like I have "Sex is bad!" in my head and I now feel uncomfortable to think, holy crap, I am going to be having sex soon, and now all of a sudden it's Ok! It's right. This is what I was waiting for... but it's still like, weird for me to think that I am losing that Identity. I am losing the lesson i was trying to teach people. I am no longer different, or unique. It's hard for me to handle -- if that makes sense.
(And for the record, I was not remaining a virgin til marriage just because "the church" says, I truly believe that it is the best choice)

Along with this, I started taking birth control to prepare for the marriage coming up. I've never had to worry about contraceptions, obviously, and while growing up, I associated that with something I won't have to worry about since I'm holding the V-card. Now, that I started taking it, I feel embarrassed. I'm not having sex, but I am taking something that people who had sex take. It's like I never want to take the pill in front of others. I hate that I can't break this idea that it's bad when i Know it's now.... weird...

Lastly, side note. I am having a HARD HARD HARD time realizing that I will change my last name. Again, Losing my Fi identity. Losing my ethic last name to an ethnicity that is not me. Not to mention, I really don't like my fiance's last name He is aware. But he will be heart broken if i don't take it or hyphenate. There's no other solution. I want to take his last name, for the idealistic reason, but I hate that I will be losing myself. And I can't shake this feeling.

I just am wondering if others have had to shift their lives and lose some Fi qualities and how they've adjusted...

 

[21%]

May I ask why you think it is bad to have sex after marriage?

I know that you might equate sex = bad, but isn't the whole point of marriage about being forever together with the one you love, being intimate -- which is a special thing between you two -- and maybe starting a family?

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Yeah like im not saying that i dont want to have it lol im just saying that it was something that was special about me that i took pride in and now i am losing that identity and i just feel weird about it, i dont think its bad after marriage, its just like i am losing apart of myself, ahhh its so hard to explain

 

[21%]

I see what you mean. Well, you'll still be "the girl who saved herself for marriage", but I know the impact is a bit less that way.

I just feel that although it might feel weird right now -- just because sex always feels weird in the beginning, no matter how old you are, I guess -- soon you'll get used to it and start to redefine yourself and your identity in a new way, embracing your intimacy in marriage as part of your new identity.

I used to be quite rigid with my self-image. I thought I was a certain way and would never behave 'out of character' But I'm starting to realize that life is much more fulfilling when you allow yourself to grow and morph and change. You won't lose your identity. The core you is still you. But you will start to see the world, and yourself in it, with added depth of understanding and richness of emotions.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

^^ I like that!

 

[OrangeAppled]

I wish you wouldn't peg this as "Fi".... Fi goes past this, deep to the heart of a matter, to judge what is actually important in the large scheme of life. Values, identity, etc, is not about a specific, external classification when you evaluate that way. If anything, this sounds like weak Te rearing its head, needing to create neat little tags for everything to be orderly. Why are classifying yourself based on whether you have sex or not? Why is this your image? Is an action about surface appearance or it's greater significance? I take it this is about faith, spirituality, morality, independence, etc, not really about chasteness or names. Is any of this lost with a change of circumstances, or is it just changing its face? If no one knew any of these things about you, would it change your values or your identity? You've felt the need to assert your values to others to make them real (ie. being known for being a virgin), which is not Fi because it requires some external form to validate it.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

To me, this is something that is deep and goes past anything surface level. I am trying to withhold that I am a little bothered that you are trying to tell me that this has nothing to do with who I am at the core of my person. This is WHO I am. This quality about me that I value and that I would base my relationships on is something more than a label or a nametag. It is my being. It goes deep into my faith. Deep into me. I am not classifying myself based on this. It is something that has been apart of my witnessing to others and lifestyle. It's, in a way, going to change who I am. Something I take pride in. Something I care about, and all of a sudden, I have to grasp that I am losing apart of myself that I really loved. I'm not saying sex is wrong, I am just saying that I care so much more about this ideal than it just being an act, that is weird to think that all of a sudden, it won't be apart of me anymore. It's very significant to me.

If no one knew about this about me, it wouldn't matter. It's not like I ran around with a virginity t-shirt on. It was something that I let people know whom I felt like it could help them. 13 year old girls dropping their pants the minute a guy gives them attention. My best friends ruining relationship after relationship because of getting into it way to quickly. My friends having pregnancy scares every month. Men that I would potentially date... I didn't hang out at abortion clinics or yell at my friends having sex. It wasn't like that.

Please don't get the impression that I would force this upon others, it was one of those things that I knew would work for me, and i could see the patterns in some people's relationships that their sex life was getting in the way of actually knowing their partner.

Hopefully, this clears things up a bit.

 

[Randomnity]

The way you're feeling now is why I think waiting until marriage is an absolutely horrible idea (well, among many other reasons). You've made it into this HUGE thing in your mind. But hey, that's your choice of course.

On another note, you don't actually have to take your husband's name, regardless of what he tells you. It doesn't make you into a heathen feminist or whatever, and it doesn't make your marriage any less special or the paperwork any more complicated (often easier, in fact). Have you tried talking to him about it? Something like "I'm really sad about losing the history behind my name - why is it important to you that I change it?"

 

[2XtremeENFP]

On another note, you don't actually have to take your husband's name, regardless of what he tells you. It doesn't make you into a heathen feminist or whatever, and it doesn't make your marriage any less special or the paperwork any more complicated (often easier, in fact). Have you tried talking to him about it? Something like "I'm really sad about losing the history behind my name - why is it important to you that I change it?"

Yeah, I have. He understands where I am coming from, and I understand where he is coming from. His way of thinking is the children and their last names. And that he wants to pass on his last name. He also takes a little offense that I don't like it hahah. we've been dating for a long long time, so it's something I knew would come up. Even if we hyphenated it, my new hyphenated last name would still be hideous and too too long hahah, either way, it's something I will have to just embrace and learn to love. Just hard to adjust, I sometimes feel like I'm the other one who is worried about something like this and looking for validation haha

 

[Randomnity]

more options

- your kids (if any) can still have his name without you needing to change yours. these days it's common enough to be unlikely to cause a fuss anywhere, although I suppose ymmv depending where you live. or they could have your name, if you're worried about it matching. I'm not sure why his preference to pass on his name trumps yours, aside from tradition.

- you can create a new last name for both of you, either merging the two names into something shorter or coming up with a completely new name. much less messy than hyphenation. some people love this idea, some people hate it, but it is an option.

 

[highlander]

You need to have more sex and then those feelings will go away. That fixes the one thing anyway.

 

[Kalach]

This thread is alarming and interesting. First, if I may, a function police moment: a persistent self image built up over time and associated with core value judgments that are difficult to change, particularly when assailed by external importunities... that's Si. Second, if I may, the implications arising from this being (seemingly) an archaic and difficult-to-address inferior outburst...

Okay, so, you're resisting change. How come no one's helping you ease into the change? Obviously they're not, or they're not doing it in the right way, because you're still having this reaction. We can say either the virginity value is actually objectively a valuable value or it is some part of a self-image that is now being aggravated by some unconscious or semi-conscious concerns, like for example that you don't want to get married, that you don't love this guy. The circumstances you're entering are raising such alarm deep in your being that this one value is assuming some vital (and heavily irrational) place of importance. "The people around me don't know who I really am! They won't value or respect it! THEY WON'T LET ME HAVE MY TRANSITION!"

Which is all very interesting. But the truth might be just that the "change" that is soon to "come over" you, while distressing, is horrible in prospect only. Later, when the ripping asunder of the hymen of solitude has been completed, and several days of healing and wailing have passed, then the change will have happened and won't have been all that bad and new adventures and experiment will be possible.


Herewith I do end my speculations and any lingering thoughts of ENFP sex.

 

[Kalach]

Alternatively, you need an image to work with. What happens after The Fall? After Eve gave it up (sluttishly seducing the innocent Adam), she became... what? What in the religious tradition is the role for women after The Gates of Heaven/Hell have suffered to be opened under the battering of the ram?

*sigh* no wonder this is unpleasant. There is *no* way to view a woman as valuable after she's sold her precious gift?

You might have to make up a new image for a (God-fearing, Christian, but pierced) woman.



Bear children, ASAP.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Alternatively, you need an image to work with. What happens after The Fall? After Eve gave it up (sluttishly seducing the innocent Adam), she became... what? What in the religious tradition is the role for women after The Gates of Heaven/Hell have suffered to be opened under the battering of the ram?

*sigh* no wonder this is unpleasant. There is *no* way to view a woman as valuable after she's sold her precious gift?

You might have to make up a new image for a (God-fearing, Christian, but pierced) woman.



Bear children, ASAP.

Ack! Bear Children are an ABOMINATION in God's eyes! Oh noes!

 

[Kalach]

Only because Yogi and Boo Boo sometimes got it on! 2Xtreme's kiddies won't be like that.

More Paddington, less Shardik. Heaven still stands.

 

[kyuuei]

I think it's important to remember that you're not losing a piece of yourself. You're completing the circle. You're not "the girl who doesnt have sex".. you're the girl who has waited for the right moment.

I'd also suggest doing some counseling.. It is very likely that you won't cope with the idea of not being a virgin anymore well. I'm not saying you won't.. it could be that you go, "Finally, I did this.. and its awesome. and now the rest of my life can be spent happily with this man." But there is a chance that it is going to give you some anguish. It is a huge change--going from openly being a virgin to even secretly knowing you're not one anymore.

But. You're not breaking your rules or your personal values by having sex on the right night for you. Being innocent as a kid is awesome--and I loved those times of my life so much.. but I'm not innocent anymore. I had to step forward past it--so it's a fond memory for me, being oblivious to the darker aspects of the world. There was a real, and very viable normal place for you as a virgin in your life.. but to keep yourself from walking forward would be to change your values. You'd no longer be waiting for your wedding night--you'd simply not want sex.. and that opens up a whole other world of questions.

I'm happy you've found someone to share such a special moment with, and I wish you two the best. If you find yourself struggling with it still though, I'd highly suggest just talking a few times with a sex counselor.. So that when the night comes it's carefree and special.

As far as the last name thing.. I've heard of people merging their last names, creating a new one out of both of theirs.. it's not very common, but it might be something to look into. If you're both adamant about keeping your last names, then I'd really have serious talks about this. Now-a-days, there's nothing that trumps one over the other.. Tradition or no, you're stuck with a name for a long, long time. Being happy about it is pretty essential. You won't be a 'bad wife' for not taking his name.. and the kids could still have his if ya'll decided on it beforehand.

 

[Kalach]

Also, who says you have to have sex after your married? I'd protest that. It's like they're forcing you.

Filhos de Mente de Cristo

 

[Samvega]

I am a Christian and try and live the lifestyle of how I am called to be. I am well into my 20s and still a virgin & am waiting until my wedding night.

It's like I have "Sex is bad!" in my head and I now feel uncomfortable to think, holy crap, I am going to be having sex soon, and now all of a sudden it's Ok!

To first address the middle statement, I have never seen this in an ENFP and I know A LOT of them! I would very seriously do some research into INFPs, I'm not saying you are one as you know you better than I do but looking into it may help you understand yourself better if you decide it is a fit. I know A LOT of INFP virgins (and vegetarians), it's fairly common for them and fairly rare for ENFPs so I would give that some thought.

The first and last statement are pretty redundant, this is part of choosing a fear based faith, Christianity has totally warped our sense of sex in a very unhealthy way in the US, it's a sad truth but there is so much quilt and fear and so on around something so wonderful that God (if that's your belief) has given us. To the point that we have 20 something virgins fearing having sex.

All change, even for the better comes with fear and adjustment. Not having sex is as simple as being stubborn, I was a virgin till I was 21 (due to faith) at which point I decided it no longer made any sense to stay one and I didn't want any part of a faith that created so many issues around such a potentially wonderful thing. That of course was my choice but even with those strong convictions it was hard to adjust and I didn't feel right about it.

Life is messy, love is messy, sex is messy, it's all messy, sometimes you have to let go of control and attachment and dive in! It's twisted but sometimes doing the harder thing becomes the easier thing which is the rut you're stuck in.

You love your man, you show him with your words, actions, touch, heart, mind, thoughts, you are loosing nothing but adding something, you can now show each other with your entire body and that's an amazing connection that you have very frankly been missing out on for a very long time.

Relax and enjoy yourself and your partner.

PS I'd bet $4,500 and my iPad you're an INFP.

 

[skylights]

^ i don't think it's only a christian thing, honestly, or necessarily an INFP thing. i think that there is also a certain pocketed societal ideal that is at least somewhat widespread in our specific generation - many of my friends have not had sex or have only very recently started to. for the people i know, it is generally upper-middle-class academic-focused young adults who have learned the majority of their sexual knowledge on the internet.

[MENTION=4653]2XtremeENFP[/MENTION] i know what you mean... i was a virgin until very recently (did not wait until marriage, but waited until i was really in love) - and i have had that "purity" as a significant part of my identity for a long, long time. i'd sort of idealized myself as a virgin in some ways. i guess this is sort of stupid, but to ease my own transition, i made my own little "archetype" image-ideals of the virgin Princess and the sexual Queen. (i doll'd them, below ) it helped me lose the "dirty" feeling i had associated with the idea of myself being someone who has sex, and not "pure" like i was - but i think you still can be pure, it's just a different type of purity. since it's going to be with someone you love and will be formally, spiritually committed to - there is a certain element of purity that is retained in that, i think. you've never done it with anyone but him before and will never do it with anyone else in the future - it's sacred between the two of you.

and i know birth control can feel a little banal... but honestly now i find it kind of entertaining, and am a little proud, whenever i take it. there's someone i love who has sex with me! it's kind of great.

also, for the record, sex is awesome, and the good feelings you get from it when you finally have it will definitely help ease that transition!

though at least for me, because i had built the whole thing up in my head too, it wasn't right, the first time. it was too staged. i just want to tell you this ahead of time because i'm guessing you may possibly feel pressure on your wedding night itself (not necessarily pressure from anyone, just self-imposed), and that can sabotage it by accident. i'm not sure what to say that can help with that, besides the more natural, the better. you will feel it when it's right... even if it's not right away, even if it's not that night or even the next day.

as for last name - some people just take on all 4 names... you could do that...?

congratulations on getting married

I think it's important to remember that you're not losing a piece of yourself. You're completing the circle. You're not "the girl who doesnt have sex".. you're the girl who has waited for the right moment.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

This thread is alarming and interesting. First, if I may, a function police moment: a persistent self image built up over time and associated with core value judgments that are difficult to change, particularly when assailed by external importunities... that's Si. Second, if I may, the implications arising from this being (seemingly) an archaic and difficult-to-address inferior outburst...

What's all this internal and external talk. What are internal values vs. external values? The things I believe in, work towards, find right and wrong, no matter what will bleed to my outter life. If I believe in a certain ideal, I am going to voice it.

I feel I will NEVER understand Si. How Si looks in an ENFP that is. Or maybe Si over all. My fiance is an ISTJ and I can see Si in him because well, it's simple, it's practical, it's known, it's safe.

Okay, so, you're resisting change. How come no one's helping you ease into the change? Obviously they're not, or they're not doing it in the right way, because you're still having this reaction. We can say either the virginity value is actually objectively a valuable value or it is some part of a self-image that is now being aggravated by some unconscious or semi-conscious concerns, like for example that you don't want to get married, that you don't love this guy. The circumstances you're entering are raising such alarm deep in your being that this one value is assuming some vital (and heavily irrational) place of importance. "The people around me don't know who I really am! They won't value or respect it! THEY WON'T LET ME HAVE MY TRANSITION!"

I have people trying to help me feel better. My ISTJ knows my feelings and he tries to help me feel better. My ESFJ friend who also saved herself until marriage kind of agrees with how I felt, but now she's married and she said it'll go away, so I trust her. My ESFP friend cant relate to me at all hahah but she is trying to help me as well, JUST ENJOY IT DONT WORRY SO MUCH

Believe me, this isn't anything having to deal with me questioning my love for him or my wanting to get married. We've been dating FOREVER and I know he's the one, I wouldn't have it any other way. And believe me, I want to have sex haha but it's just weird to think that this thing i've valued will now go bye bye.