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[ENFP] Am I driving my ENFP friend / roommate insane?

cranez

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So I recently had my adorable, bubbly, socialite ENFP friend move in with me around a month ago. I didn't know what to expect when she first moved in with her INTP boyfriend. They're very quiet, easy going - but holy hell. Disorganized. I feel like when I bug them for rent (since their rent is payable to me) - they're slow to pay - not because they're trying to avoid it but because they like to do things 'whenever'. I like to keep the house clean so I'm always cleaning up their dishes, cleaning the floors, bathroom etc. Making sure bills are equally distributed for cost of things like paper towels, toilet paper, etc.

Unfortunately, it seems like they care less about these things than I do. >< I've been trying to be as patient as possible. I think sometimes when I rush to do things so I can get it over with I annoy my ENFP friend. Which makes me sad. I don't mean to...I'm just super organized and they're...not. Don't know if it's the P...but I've lived with another INTP before and he was the same way.

We cooked dinner and I was super clean because we were dealing with chicken and she just gave me this look of disbelief. Like I was insane and then started laughing....I was kind of irritated by it, because salmonella is serious shit. Heh.

ENFPs? Thoughts? Could my ENFJness be driving her nuts and she's too polite to act annoyed?
 

chickpea

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it's kinda hard for me to live with someone who's super neat and organized, because i'm just not like that and it takes a lot of effort to be. and then i'm not entirely comfortable in my own home and feel guilty and like i have to walk on eggshells to meet someone else's needs.

not saying you're doing anything wrong, just trying to offer perspective.
 

Randomnity

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-for rent, ask for post-dated checks for a few months. they might not be ok with giving it to you, and that is fine. Note: if you do this don't be a dick and cash it early, because often the banks won't look and will put it through anyway....

-for house supplies, assuming you don't mind dealing with it, ask them to give you 10$/month or whatever it approximately works out to, and add to their post-dated checks for rent.

-cleaning is pretty much always an issue, just do your best to keep communication open, compromise, be generous, and don't be passive-aggressive about it
 

Lady_X

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doesn't seem unreasonable to me. i like the suggestion of them giving you the checks already filled out ahead of time with the expectation for them to have the money in their bank by the due date. sit down and do a division of labor...talk about how everyone likes to do dinners...all take turns cooking and buying groceries and cleaning up or every one fend for themselves and just clean up after yourselves...all parties need to bend and compromise....i wouldn't worry about it.
 

cranez

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-for rent, ask for post-dated checks for a few months. they might not be ok with giving it to you, and that is fine. Note: if you do this don't be a dick and cash it early, because often the banks won't look and will put it through anyway....

-for house supplies, assuming you don't mind dealing with it, ask them to give you 10$/month or whatever it approximately works out to, and add to their post-dated checks for rent.

-cleaning is pretty much always an issue, just do your best to keep communication open, compromise, be generous, and don't be passive-aggressive about it

I don't feel comfortable holding people's paper checks honestly. I am pretty good about keeping things filed away but don't want to be responsible for them. I'd rather they just pay rent on time. Seems simple enough to me. Also; Who the hell would cash someone's checks early?! :dry:

I told her with household supplies just to give me $8 in cash / per month for household items. I go and buy them and make sure the house is arranged and everything is easy to find.

I'm not passive aggressive with them. I'm pretty straight forward and friendly about it. This may come off as me being annoyed with them when really I'm wondering if my behaviour may be making her uncomfortable. I just have an extreme case of OCD with cleanliness, getting bills paid on time...it clashes with what they're used to. That's all. I actually enjoy cleaning up their messes and organizing things for them.

I know the INTP probably appreciates it - or he thinks it's silly. He's pretty young still though. Doubt he give sit much thought.
 

21%

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I think my ENFJ sis really felt the urge to scream at her ENFP roommate sometimes when they were living together. They're good friends though :D

I like the 'clean up after yourself' deal, but from my sister's experience, this means there will be a week's worth of dishes and cups lying around before the ENFP does anything about it. That could be a real problem though if dirty dishes bother you. What my sister and her ENFP friend did was to agree to use separate drying racks. The 'central area' like the stove had to be cleaned after use, and dirty stuff could only be left on the ENFP's rack so she could deal with it whenever she wanted. I agree that compromising is necessary :)

The only problem is that I think it's not cool not to pay rent on time. Tell them that it's causing you financial problems not having it paid on time and I'm sure they would listen. That way it's more feeling-based (I can't buy stuff because I don't have the money and that kinda sucks) than thinking-based (The rent system is disorganized and must be fixed!) and might come across better to the ENFP.
 

Lily flower

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Roommates are universally annoying. You have all that stuff to try to work around, but you don't have any romantic commitment that will make you put up with the other person. If you can't move out, I would suggest that you just try to divide the areas and keep your area clean and let them leave their area a mess.

BTW - I totally agree with you about the salmonella. I had salmonella poisoning once and it was one of the worst things that ever happened to me. The stomach cramps are unreal and you just want to die. I can't stand the world's casual attitude about stuff like that.
 

mmhmm

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So I recently had my adorable, bubbly, socialite ENFP friend move in with me around a month ago. I didn't know what to expect when she first moved in with her INTP boyfriend. They're very quiet, easy going - but holy hell. Disorganized. I feel like when I bug them for rent (since their rent is payable to me) - they're slow to pay - not because they're trying to avoid it but because they like to do things 'whenever'. I like to keep the house clean so I'm always cleaning up their dishes, cleaning the floors, bathroom etc. Making sure bills are equally distributed for cost of things like paper towels, toilet paper, etc.

Unfortunately, it seems like they care less about these things than I do. >< I've been trying to be as patient as possible. I think sometimes when I rush to do things so I can get it over with I annoy my ENFP friend. Which makes me sad. I don't mean to...I'm just super organized and they're...not. Don't know if it's the P...but I've lived with another INTP before and he was the same way.

We cooked dinner and I was super clean because we were dealing with chicken and she just gave me this look of disbelief. Like I was insane and then started laughing....I was kind of irritated by it, because salmonella is serious shit. Heh.

ENFPs? Thoughts? Could my ENFJness be driving her nuts and she's too polite to act annoyed?

show this post you wrote... to them.
if you guys are living together, you
should be able to talk about this stuff,
establish ground rules especially for
things like rent.

they might not intend to pay late,
but ask them what day is good
for them to pay. make it fixed.
ie. pay by the 5th of every month.
tell them you need it by then so
you can you know... go deposit it
on the 6th whatever. basically
let them know that there's a next
step action you need to do after
they pay rent, and as long as they
are late, they are also making you
late.

just be clear.


it's kinda hard for me to live with someone who's super neat and organized, because i'm just not like that and it takes a lot of effort to be. and then i'm not entirely comfortable in my own home and feel guilty and like i have to walk on eggshells to meet someone else's needs.

not saying you're doing anything wrong, just trying to offer perspective.

yes i agree with chana, i'm messy myself.
but i keep my mess in my personal space,
and not in shared spaces.

actually i'd just negotiate the terms of chore
duties. like... i would do all the grocery shopping
and cooking. but i won't clean a thing. because...
i hate cleaning.
 

pinkgraffiti

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No, actually in this I totally empathize with you, cranes. I mean, anyone can be as organized or disorganized as they want, but not when there are other people around, it's called respect. And you're not their mum that you have to worry about how the rent should be payed or not. I mean, if there's a deadline, they should be able to respect it, regardless if they're J, P or ZWUAIG. My opinion.
 

Istbkleta

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Don't know if it's the P...but I've lived with another INTP before and he was the same way.

I lived with an ENFJ for 3 years and it helped me a lot to become more organized and tidy. Did me some good but I realize it was hard for him in the beginning because I was a typical messy ENTP.

This was years ago. I am honestly grateful that this happened and he helped me to develop as a better person. Should I apologize for that time and tell him I appreciate his positive influence?
 

Elfboy

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Roommates are universally annoying. You have all that stuff to try to work around, but you don't have any romantic commitment that will make you put up with the other person. If you can't move out, I would suggest that you just try to divide the areas and keep your area clean and let them leave their area a mess.

BTW - I totally agree with you about the salmonella. I had salmonella poisoning once and it was one of the worst things that ever happened to me. The stomach cramps are unreal and you just want to die. I can't stand the world's casual attitude about stuff like that.

my roommate in college was an ESTJ 6w7 So/Sx and we got along just fine despite him being about as polar opposite to my personality as you could get (ESTJ jock and ENFP classical singing diva lol) . I guess my point is that as long as the lines of communication are open and both people are willing to be cooperative and be assertive (as opposed to bottling things up) living with another person can be pretty close to conflict free. I don't think we ever argued once :)
 

Little Linguist

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Okay, I had a similar situation except my roommate and I were pretty much easy-going with each other. Ironically, at that time, I was the super tidy/organized one, and she (ISFJ) was the super messy/disorganized one because she focused on her studies. Rent, etc. wasn't an issue because we were in a dorm room. Anyway, you could draw a line down the center of the room. 50% was mine, 50% was hers. And I didn't bother her about her area, and she didn't bother me about mine, as long as none of her shit was in my area. It worked out perfectly, and it was kind of amusing for guests. ;D
 

Santosha

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Possibly. (You could be annoying her).

I lived with an ENFJ for almost 2 years. It was a rough run, but rewarding. She is very EJ and was sometimes a nazi. She just did not understand how I could let messy stuff go, and I did not understand why she cared so much and put so much energy into it. We both liked having a clean and organized pad when others came over, but we had people coming over alot. I just didnt care to waste my time having a spotless place 24/7. I found getting her to drink wine helped alot. Once she got a good buzz going, and in a more relaxed mood, she could let alot of stuff fall by wayside. And sometimes I just needed a change of scenery and would be gone for a few days. I'd go hang out with other friends or my boyfriend, which seemed to upset her and made me feel claustrophobic at times. (tip: if your ENFP strays for a bit, its not always something YOU did.) She could be a bit overbearing and even needy at times. I think this was an fi/fe clash, also she was far more extroverted than me. One time, i actually locked myself in my room to read a Harry Potter book while she threw a house party!) And thats another thing that comes to mind, realize that even if shes extroverted, she might still need alone time. ENFPs are often the introverted extroverts. BOth of us did tend to bottle stuff up, but then we'd get into a heated argument and it'd all come dramatically flying out. We even made eachother cry a few times. But every single time we did this, we resolved the argument and felt WAAAY better.

But all of this is just my experience. You could totally NOT be irritating her, ENFJ's have a tendency to worry about this too much I think.
 

King sns

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So I recently had my adorable, bubbly, socialite ENFP friend move in with me around a month ago. I didn't know what to expect when she first moved in with her INTP boyfriend. They're very quiet, easy going - but holy hell. Disorganized. I feel like when I bug them for rent (since their rent is payable to me) - they're slow to pay - not because they're trying to avoid it but because they like to do things 'whenever'. I like to keep the house clean so I'm always cleaning up their dishes, cleaning the floors, bathroom etc. Making sure bills are equally distributed for cost of things like paper towels, toilet paper, etc.

Unfortunately, it seems like they care less about these things than I do. >< I've been trying to be as patient as possible. I think sometimes when I rush to do things so I can get it over with I annoy my ENFP friend. Which makes me sad. I don't mean to...I'm just super organized and they're...not. Don't know if it's the P...but I've lived with another INTP before and he was the same way.

We cooked dinner and I was super clean because we were dealing with chicken and she just gave me this look of disbelief. Like I was insane and then started laughing....I was kind of irritated by it, because salmonella is serious shit. Heh.

ENFPs? Thoughts? Could my ENFJness be driving her nuts and she's too polite to act annoyed?

You aren't doing anything wrong but I would likely want to kill you anyway. It's reasonable to expect rent on time though. There's a day that it's due and that's it. Regarding the other stuff- it's all very relative. Relatively organized to you as a J would probably seem a bit much to someone like me. I think this issue- (and I don't normally like to generalize too much) but I do think that it's largely based on the P/J dichotomy. I like living with P's- much less pressure.
 

mrcockburn

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As long as they're paying the rent the day it's due, what's the problem?

As for cleanliness, what we do at my place is set months for each housemate to clean. This month was my month. :dry: Whoever has that month cleans once a week.

But we all keep our shit clean. My room's a holy god mess, but I don't leave ANYTHING in the common areas.

Everyone has their own rack in the fridge with their own groceries, and nobody cooks for each other.

For supplies, we don't share supplies, food, or anything except for actual storage space (we get our own cupboards). Everyone has their own roll of toilet paper that they cart in and out of the bathroom, their own rolls of paper towels, their own dishes and dish racks, etc.

It works out pretty well. My biggest gripe is having to share a bathroom with 3 other girls and 1 guy.

The roommate I hate the most is a fat bitch ISTJ (not saying fat bitches are ISTJ or that ISTJs are fat bitches, this chick is just coincidentally both) - she leaves the bathroom floor SOAKING WET after her showers, she WIPES HER ASS AFTER TAKING A SHIT AND THROWS IT IN THE OPEN-CONTAINER WASTEBIN INSTEAD OF FLUSHING IT LIKE AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING, and leaves open garbage and food (including meat) to rot on the counters all night.

Trust me, it's not just a P thing. It's a Poo thing. *lawllawllawlbadjokelawlawlawlawl*

I don't hesitate to pound on her door and demand that she wipe up her mess RIGHT NOW. I've dragged her out her room, dragged her into the bathroom, pointed to her shit-littered wastebin and told her to take the trash outside NOW and never do that again. Nor do I hesitate to cram her shit back inside the fridge and/or throw it out if it's still there fermenting on the counter when I get home at 2AM.

You just have to bring up problems as they arise.
 

20111017

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The only problem is that I think it's not cool not to pay rent on time. Tell them that it's causing you financial problems not having it paid on time and I'm sure they would listen.
If not, pack their belongings away and find someone else to stay with.
Or pack your belongings and stay with someone else.
 

skylights

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:laugh:

chana said:
it's kinda hard for me to live with someone who's super neat and organized, because i'm just not like that and it takes a lot of effort to be. and then i'm not entirely comfortable in my own home and feel guilty and like i have to walk on eggshells to meet someone else's needs.

this. i know it's got to be hard from the other side too though, cranez

my SO is an EJ and i love that he helps keep me more organized and on time. my best friend is an ENFJ too. i love Js. their presence encourages me to be more put together. it's good for me. it's just all about attitude. the people i keep around me find my messiness kind of endearing if a little annoying and they know i have other good qualities that make up for it, so they help me instead of looking down on me. they give me time and space to work on it and don't make me feel guilty about my messes, but rather i want to be more organized to impress them. and then i'm more organized and on time, which they like. so it's all quite positive.

moneywise - is there any way you guys can set up direct deposit? i LOVE direct deposit. actually i usually always make my credit card payments a week in advance so i don't forget when the due date rolls around. can you make a "due" date for them a week in advance of the real date you want the money, so that they have a week to get it to you? i do this with my clocks, set them 10 minutes early so then i have 10 minutes to be late within!

mmhmm said:
basically
let them know that there's a next
step action you need to do after
they pay rent, and as long as they
are late, they are also making you
late.

that will work too. make use of that F, it's a weakness of ours :laugh:

cleaningwise - honestly it'd probably get on my nerves if someone was cleaning my stuff. my mom would clean my room and my dad would clean my car when i was a teen and it totally wigged me out. i don't like having someone else in my things; they're private. i also don't like someone coming in and making things i made yucky "better", it feels demeaning. i like 21%'s idea of separate spaces. then they can have their disorganized space and you don't have to worry about it.

though i dunno about food cleanliness, i'm OCD too when it comes to that. :sick:
 

foxonstilts

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I doubt she's annoyed; she's probably oblivious that there is an issue/problem at all. When rent is due, maybe on the front door or something you should stick a post-it that says "WAIT, ENFP/INTP, are you leaving without paying rent??" and reminds them to do so. At least I do that when I know I have to get stuff done and it works.
 

cranez

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Okay so here is the thing. I should have clarified a bit more on the living situation.

It's my apartment. My name is on the lease. Not theirs. So keeping things orderly, clean, etc is important to me because if they fuck something up in the apartment, it falls on me. Not them. I think that's part of why I am so anal about it. I didn't require them to pay a security deposit because they couldn't afford it and I was doing them a favour letting them move in because their lease at their old place was up and the cost for studios shot up a few hundred more than they could afford. Plus they both worked downtown and wanted a shorter commute.

Either way, I kind of feel like my apartment was violated and now they're thinking about breaking up. It's been an absolute nightmare. >< Never again.
 
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