[Fi] Fi - How Do You Deal With Emotional Invasions?

[sculpting]

I'm kind of ridiculous in this respect, it's one of my worst qualities. First of all, it's easy to be invaded emotionally. It doesn't seem that hard. All it takes is a little bit of feeling of out-of-control or vulnerability on my part and then the Fi reacts. I always retreat, stop talking. Sometimes I will physically walk away from a person invading me with an emotion related question, (romantic) and have had to tell more than one person to stop following me around, it's not going to work. Normally I need to be physically alone in a room, and if not, my brain just freezes and I stop talking completely. I've had people asking me "yes" or "no" questions and given the cold shoulder. I am very untrusting and self-preserving in this respect.

I totaly resonate with this description as well

 

[Lady_X]

i can't think of too many times it happened where anything actually had to be said...i'm usually pretty good at steering conversations away from topics that i don't want to discuss...but i guess i've said before...ehhh...i don't really wanna talk about it sorry...but that's just about touchy emotional stuff that i don't get into with others...people tend to understand....i can't really imagine another scenario where it may have come up.

 

[Coriolis]

I am just curious as to how other Fi users deal with people being emotionally invasive with them.

1) Do you speak up and tell the person that they are crossing a line?
2) Do you withdraw and create some distance?
3) Do you roll with it and let it happen?

Emotionally Invasive: I view this as when people don't respect my emotional boundaries with them. When they expect things from me that primarily benefit them and occasionally hurt me in the process.

My threshold for emotional invasion may be lower than most, but fortunately I don't spend much time around emotionally demanding people. If someone tries to discuss emotions with me and they are not a close friend or relative, I will steer the conversation onto more objective ground. If someone is just venting and I can tell it is not about or really directed at me, I will try to be a good listener, but if they make a habit of it, I will try to short-circuit the monologue before it gains momentum. If it is directed at me (emotional barrage over something I supposedly did), I again try to move the conversation to objective ground. I ignore any ranting and insults, and try to get to the heart of whatever they are upset at me about, and whether it is something I can address. If this doesn't work, I call them on specific behavior ("please stop yelling at me"), and may have to leave their presence until they calm down. I suppose this means I do some of each, usually (3) followed by (1) then finally (2).

 

[Anew Leaf]

[MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION]
I have that problem with family the most, because severing ties is a very extreme option with them (I imagine marriage is the same). It took me years to get them to stop invalidating my feelings because they couldn't even fathom why anyone would feel as I do about certain things. In the process, I became a lot more articulate about my feelings. It's still a hurdle though.

One thing I do is call them out on the invalidation itself. I remind them I am ME, not "everyone else", and that I already made a request that they agreed to & that they've violated it yet again. Sometimes I have to do this over & over & over. It's frustrating, but I've made headway over time. I also get them to accept stuff they cannot understand; I'll tell them they don't have to get it, but they do need to respect it.

I admit I withhold from family when they repeatedly cross a boundary (ie. I won't tell my mom much about my life). I don't know if this is healthy (probably not), but it's like a "time out" for a naughty kid. I don't know how else to bang it into their heads that they've done wrong. It's like, there HAS to be consequences for some people.

I haven't had time to reply back to this thread like I want to. But I definitely get what you are saying here.

 

[Amargith]

I take a conscious step away from the situation, evaluate it, and if necessary, block my involvement emotionally. If they have a point, I'll do what needs doing without holding a grudge or feeling resentment. If not, I'll respond by being unresponsive. Given a few times, most people are smart enough to catch on that that shit just..aint going to fly and they usually become too bored and aggrevated to try again.

It's different with family, I agree. Still, even there, unless there's a reason to play nice (group harmony is important to my mom, and so I'll put up with a lot of shit from my immediate family to get to the goal that she's trying to get to), I'll do the same thing. I used to be easy to bait and guilttrip. Now it just bounces off on the sign that says 'Vala is currently unavaible to *you*, but feel free to leave a message after the beep which will be considered. BEEEEEEEEEP.'

 

[Santosha]

I am really, extremely emotionally raw and open now. It actually PAINS me to keep my mouth shut, and 95% of the time I CANT keep my mouth shut. THis is especially true for anyone in my inner circle or anytime I see something unfair going on.

For a long time though, I wasn't able to always come off so confrontational. Especially with friends. Always having that fear that If I showed my true colors I might be rejected, lose the friendship, or they'd see how "sensitive" I am and use it against me to hype up how its all just me and not them. These are classic e4 fears, and very undertandeable actually.

I don't know about other Fi users, especially FI doms.. but my experience in life, even as a child, has always reinforced the differences in me and other people. Not in me and everyone, but me in the majority. THis isn't just subjective mumbo-jumbo.. there ARE differences. The world can be a cold and callous fucking place, especially here in the US. Things like strength, repressing emotions, image, taking care of #1, acheiving, acheiving at the expense of others even, all highly valued. And these things always seemed to conflict with my inner compass. As a child I quickly realized that I would get really worked up over things, moral conflicts, that other people could just turn a blind eye to. Even adults that were intellectually capeable of understanding the magnitude of certain actions. Water off a ducks back. And I could never understand it (I was a kid) but it sure as hell reinforced difference.

By the time I was a teenager I had pretty much come to accept that most people didn't see things the way I did, feel as strongly about some of the things I would feel, so I started masking. Self preservation if you will. And this is what alot of INFP's (especially) begin to learn. You can't reveal this sensitivity or you will get eaten alive. You'll get bullied, laughed at, picked on, teased, so you better learn how to mask or you aint gonna make it. And you'd think this behavior would go away as people learned more, developed, become adults, but it doesn't! The same shit still flys, it's just more complex and socially clever. So ya, with all this in mind I turned to hiding, reatreating in the face of conflict, dropping people because they hit a soft spot too many times. I became a master of behavioral observation.. thoroughly enjoying those select few that I could let through the net.

However, this behavior proved to be self-defating (for me personally). since I've gotten a little older and lived a little more, I've realized a couple things. First, retreating and cutting people off is a sure fire way to find yourself alone, alot. While being alone sometimes is good, being alone alot isn't. (imo). Quick way to feel disconnected, thus depressed. I can't just door slam evertime my feelers get hurt, and even creating an elite group of other feelrs is kinda like putting all your eggs in one basket. Whatcha gonna do when one of those eggs breaks, moves, has other stuff going on, etc. SO.. the best thing to do is to figure out a way to brige the gap between your senstiive self, and the cold, callous world. This is what I've been working on for years now.

I do this by forcing myself to be emotionally honest as much as possible. Even if that reveals the prickly bastard I am. I realized that being sensitive is NOT something to be ashamed or humiliated of. This is what alot of our society seems to believe, but society is diseased in many regards. Having a strong moral compass isn't a defect, and neither is getting your feelings hurt. The other thing I realized is that the majority isn't quite as bad as I initially thought. Many of them are just rather dim, emotionally. I also can't expect people to be psychics and just *know* when they've crossed the line. My INTP brother expects me to be a psychic all the time, it's bullshit. We think differently. Alot of moral behaviors will seem obvious to the fi user, but it isn't to others. Which is why the best strategy is to always explain yourself. Explain, explain, explain. Break through those communication barriers. Be true to yourself, by understanding that your feelings or thoughts are just as valid as anyone elses.. and have the balls to defend that. If you find yourself "rejected" don't fall into that trap of beleiving its entirely you. Because it's not. When you do these things your going to quickly find yourself surrounded by more people who understand or respect you, and less assholes. Your also being a humanitarian, in the sense that you are giving your fellow man an opportunity to embrace ideas that don't naturally come to them. I would be fairly upset if an NT door-slammed me because I couldn't sit there discussing the logical fallacies in postmodernism. I'd want the opportunity to learn and understand that.. so I give that same opportunity to others when it comes to me, my subjective moral compass.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I am really, extremely emotionally raw and open now. It actually PAINS me to keep my mouth shut, and 95% of the time I CANT keep my mouth shut. THis is especially true for anyone in my inner circle or anytime I see something unfair going on.

Great post, Huxley. Thank you for your input!

For a long time though, I wasn't able to always come off so confrontational. Especially with friends. Always having that fear that If I showed my true colors I might be rejected, lose the friendship, or they'd see how "sensitive" I am and use it against me to hype up how its all just me and not them. These are classic e4 fears, and very undertandeable actually.

I can relate to this a lot. Sometimes I have viewed it as a "Well, it's easier to tell myself no and grit my teeth then have to deal with openly discussing this topic with them." With some people I definitely have more of the Te shell thing going on in order to separate myself better from them. It's far too easy to get my inner emotions mixed up with people.

By the time I was a teenager I had pretty much come to accept that most people didn't see things the way I did, feel as strongly about some of the things I would feel, so I started masking. Self preservation if you will. And this is what alot of INFP's (especially) begin to learn. You can't reveal this sensitivity or you will get eaten alive. You'll get bullied, laughed at, picked on, teased, so you better learn how to mask or you aint gonna make it. And you'd think this behavior would go away as people learned more, developed, become adults, but it doesn't! The same shit still flys, it's just more complex and socially clever. So ya, with all this in mind I turned to hiding, reatreating in the face of conflict, dropping people because they hit a soft spot too many times. I became a master of behavioral observation.. thoroughly enjoying those select few that I could let through the net.

Ugh, yes! I was terrible at learning how to adapt to my external environment in school and spent most of my elementary/junior high years being 100% isolated from the rest of my class. I was about as popular as the Oort cloud is to the rest of the solar system. I got my little inner Fi-ness squished for years and years and years....

By the time I was a teenager I had pretty much come to accept that most people didn't see things the way I did, feel as strongly about some of the things I would feel, so I started masking. Self preservation if you will. And this is what alot of INFP's (especially) begin to learn. You can't reveal this sensitivity or you will get eaten alive. You'll get bullied, laughed at, picked on, teased, so you better learn how to mask or you aint gonna make it. And you'd think this behavior would go away as people learned more, developed, become adults, but it doesn't! The same shit still flys, it's just more complex and socially clever. So ya, with all this in mind I turned to hiding, reatreating in the face of conflict, dropping people because they hit a soft spot too many times. I became a master of behavioral observation.. thoroughly enjoying those select few that I could let through the net.

It's like being given a gift when Ne starts developing. It became a great tool for dealing with other people: making them laugh so they wouldn't have a chance to laugh at me. I don't do this anymore but for awhile I had a trick of doing something silly/weird on purpose so that someone I just met would laugh at that... and hopefully deflect away from laughing at me directly.

However, this behavior proved to be self-defating (for me personally). since I've gotten a little older and lived a little more, I've realized a couple things. First, retreating and cutting people off is a sure fire way to find yourself alone, alot. While being alone sometimes is good, being alone alot isn't. (imo). Quick way to feel disconnected, thus depressed. I can't just door slam evertime my feelers get hurt, and even creating an elite group of other feelrs is kinda like putting all your eggs in one basket. Whatcha gonna do when one of those eggs breaks, moves, has other stuff going on, etc. SO.. the best thing to do is to figure out a way to brige the gap between your senstiive self, and the cold, callous world. This is what I've been working on for years now.

I agree on this as well. It's very easy at times to want to cocoon yourself in a little Feelery world of hugs and snuggles... but that isn't reality. I have had a bad habit of doorslamming people who offended me or hurt me badly. I think I have gotten better with not being so quick to do that with others, but it's always sort of a back-up plan that hovers in my mind. I have to actively swat it away. I guess as we get older we do a better job at discerning when it is appropriate to cut people out of our lives and when we may need to compromise ourselves a tiny bit in order to keep the peace.

I do this by forcing myself to be emotionally honest as much as possible. Even if that reveals the prickly bastard I am. I realized that being sensitive is NOT something to be ashamed or humiliated of. This is what alot of our society seems to believe, but society is diseased in many regards. Having a strong moral compass isn't a defect, and neither is getting your feelings hurt. The other thing I realized is that the majority isn't quite as bad as I initially thought. Many of them are just rather dim, emotionally. I also can't expect people to be psychics and just *know* when they've crossed the line. My INTP brother expects me to be a psychic all the time, it's bullshit. We think differently. Alot of moral behaviors will seem obvious to the fi user, but it isn't to others. Which is why the best strategy is to always explain yourself. Explain, explain, explain. Break through those communication barriers. Be true to yourself, by understanding that your feelings or thoughts are just as valid as anyone elses.. and have the balls to defend that. If you find yourself "rejected" don't fall into that trap of beleiving its entirely you. Because it's not. When you do these things your going to quickly find yourself surrounded by more people who understand or respect you, and less assholes. Your also being a humanitarian, in the sense that you are giving your fellow man an opportunity to embrace ideas that don't naturally come to them. I would be fairly upset if an NT door-slammed me because I couldn't sit there discussing the logical fallacies in postmodernism. I'd want the opportunity to learn and understand that.. so I give that same opportunity to others when it comes to me, my subjective moral compass.

I am always a fan of being emotionally honest. I get very irritated with other people when I know they aren't being emotionally honest with me. I can read other people's emotions pretty accurately - and while I am not a mind reader - I can pick up what they may not realize they are putting down. It's one thing if someone says "I don't want to discuss X." It's another when someone says "X doesn't exist."

 

[Anew Leaf]

I take a conscious step away from the situation, evaluate it, and if necessary, block my involvement emotionally. If they have a point, I'll do what needs doing without holding a grudge or feeling resentment. If not, I'll respond by being unresponsive. Given a few times, most people are smart enough to catch on that that shit just..aint going to fly and they usually become too bored and aggrevated to try again.

It's different with family, I agree. Still, even there, unless there's a reason to play nice (group harmony is important to my mom, and so I'll put up with a lot of shit from my immediate family to get to the goal that she's trying to get to), I'll do the same thing. I used to be easy to bait and guilttrip. Now it just bounces off on the sign that says 'Vala is currently unavaible to *you*, but feel free to leave a message after the beep which will be considered. BEEEEEEEEEP.'

Great post, Vala!

I find it can become a new battleground if I need to emotionally extricate myself from a situation or person. Some people just don't "get" the fact that just because they are my friend, they don't get a skeleton key to my Fi castle so they can rifle through my pantry and eat all of my doritos.

P.S. I love the answering machine analogy. ^_^

 

[Anew Leaf]

My threshold for emotional invasion may be lower than most, but fortunately I don't spend much time around emotionally demanding people. If someone tries to discuss emotions with me and they are not a close friend or relative, I will steer the conversation onto more objective ground. If someone is just venting and I can tell it is not about or really directed at me, I will try to be a good listener, but if they make a habit of it, I will try to short-circuit the monologue before it gains momentum. If it is directed at me (emotional barrage over something I supposedly did), I again try to move the conversation to objective ground. I ignore any ranting and insults, and try to get to the heart of whatever they are upset at me about, and whether it is something I can address. If this doesn't work, I call them on specific behavior ("please stop yelling at me"), and may have to leave their presence until they calm down. I suppose this means I do some of each, usually (3) followed by (1) then finally (2).

I like this approach. My problem is that I have a REALLY hard time steering topics away from the land of emotions. I get caught up in listening to people's problems all of the time and I think, MAYDAY!! But I can't stop myself. I think I need to gather up more Te... it's just far too easy to go "meh" internally and let them continue talking.

 

[Anew Leaf]

A pictorial representation:

That or use invisible giant headphones to tune 'em out.

I this picture!

 

[Anew Leaf]

[MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION]
I have that problem with family the most, because severing ties is a very extreme option with them (I imagine marriage is the same). It took me years to get them to stop invalidating my feelings because they couldn't even fathom why anyone would feel as I do about certain things. In the process, I became a lot more articulate about my feelings. It's still a hurdle though.

One thing I do is call them out on the invalidation itself. I remind them I am ME, not "everyone else", and that I already made a request that they agreed to & that they've violated it yet again. Sometimes I have to do this over & over & over. It's frustrating, but I've made headway over time. I also get them to accept stuff they cannot understand; I'll tell them they don't have to get it, but they do need to respect it.

I admit I withhold from family when they repeatedly cross a boundary (ie. I won't tell my mom much about my life). I don't know if this is healthy (probably not), but it's like a "time out" for a naughty kid. I don't know how else to bang it into their heads that they've done wrong. It's like, there HAS to be consequences for some people.

I like the distinction you make here with pointing out the invalidation. It's probably something I need to do myself.

Initially having to vocalize what I am thinking/feeling is such a huge hurdle to overcome. And then to have to further explain myself because the person doesn't get it.... ugh. So frustrating.

This occurs primarily when I have to deal with my INTP dad who is like the most emotionally clueless person I have ever met. Not understanding emotions coupled with Ti's insatiable need to over understand everything... leaves me wanting to jump off of a bridge and fake my own death.

*looks up: "How much blood can someone lose and not die but look like they must have died to forensic scientists.*

 

[BAJ]

I'm sort of making walls where basically everyone is blocked...which I'm not suggesting is the best life strategy for anyone. Besides, it's probably more to protect them from me.

 

[Glycerine]

From the outsider's perspective, they seem to detach for a bit but after they have had enough, they will explode and assert their ground or make snarky comments with an attitude. I have been around a lot of Fi users and that's what it looks like to me and it's usually seems quite warranted!

 

[highlander]

I can't think of a time when anyone has been "emotionally invasive" with me and it's somehow bothered me. If someone asks me something about something I don't want to talk about, I would just steer the conversation in a different direction. Brush it off. No big deal. I'm likely the one doing the invading. This is an interesting thread because I just did this big time to someone. That description - "emotionally invasive" is the perfect way to describe it. It was a very rare and unusual thing - never done anything like that before in my life and I had good reasons in this particular situation for doing it. They retreated and have stayed retreated which does not surprise me in the least given what I know of this person. I somewhat expected it in fact. I did speak my mind though - not in a negative way at all - but definitely invasive.

In general, a slight bit of it is good - push the boundaries a little and you get to know people better - get closer to them. All this bottling up of emotions - I don't think it's good - at least with people you know well or are getting to know well.

Maybe I'm not a typical INTJ though.

 

[OrangeAppled]

It's like being given a gift when Ne starts developing. It became a great tool for dealing with other people: making them laugh so they wouldn't have a chance to laugh at me. I don't do this anymore but for awhile I had a trick of doing something silly/weird on purpose so that someone I just met would laugh at that... and hopefully deflect away from laughing at me directly.

The other "gift" Ne provides is better articulation of feelings, not just social charm.

IMO, Ne aids in using metaphor, illustrations & analogies to explain foreign feelings to people. It helps you to see connections between your oh so individual unique feelings & those of others, even if these connections are vague at best; and in doing so it allows you to explain your feelings with these comparisons, so that others can get some sense of where you are coming from.

I read somewhere that INFPs may have a gift for putting difficult concepts in easy to grasp layman's terms; I wouldn't be surprised if this is born out of the struggle to explain our own feelings.

I find explaining my feelings something like defending a court case. If one argument does not work, then you appeal & try a new argument. That's why I said I often have to explain over & over & over what I feel & why I feel it in order to get others to accept it as valid & to accommodate my needs. Every time I try, I approach it from a different angle, using a different metaphor, different phrasing, just different. At some point, usually, one of these perspectives will be clear to people. And yes, this is exhausting.

 

[William K]

I think I'll probably become like a nuclear sub. First, I'll try to dive deep and escape. If the other party tries to pursue, I'll go into silent mode and just give cursory responses hoping they'll give up. If that still doesn't work, I have my torpedoes and nuclear warheads and the outcome won't be pretty...

 

[CzeCze]

I am just curious as to how other Fi users deal with people being emotionally invasive with them.

Do you speak up and tell the person that they are crossing a line?
Do you withdraw and create some distance?
Do you roll with it and let it happen?

Emotionally Invasive: I view this as when people don't respect my emotional boundaries with them. When they expect things from me that primarily benefit them and occasionally hurt me in the process.

I usually have a good guard and social tools armed and ready.

So when people catch me totally off guard I'm like a deer in headlights.

Fi by itself is completely and utterly unsavvy. Bah.

 

[uncommonentity]

I tell them to fuck off and if they don't heed that call I cut them out of my life.

 

[Amargith]

I find that 'emotionally invasive' has two sides to it. It's one thing when they invade with the gracefulness of a bull in a china shop due to their own frustrations or due to being oblivious. It's quite another when they do it with gentle care and because they see you're stuck within yourself and need a help getting out of the mess you're in. It's still invasive..but it's the difference between a butcher and a surgeon imho.

 

[Nicodemus]

My response will be either curt, sarcastic or a lie.