[Fe] Fe - EVERYTHING IS RUDE

[funkadelik]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if the majority of people aren't drinking then won't an open bar not cost them a whole lot/there won't be many drunk people to monitor?

 

[Fidelia]

If they are not drinkers due to a value/principle rather than merely their own personal habits, they are not going to feel that good about personally funding any alcohol. They are probably already making a big concession to have a bar (in an attempt to respect the other side of the family). I don't think the issue is being cheap or afraid of people overdrinking, so much as not considering alcohol in the same category as just serving a kind of food or beverage that they personally don't care for.

 

[Mal12345]

I think the general idea is that wedding guests are ... guests. You don't asks guests to pay for what you serve them.

But just because you don't have a lot of money doesn't mean you can't have guests, so instead of expensive food, you have chili and cornbread, or a pizza party.

Would it be too radical just not to offer alcohol? If you had a morning wedding, would people expect it? (I'm not that up on wedding etiquette.)

And they don't need a liquor license to charge for the drinks?

 

[Thalassa]

I can see my ISTJ throwing a fit over something like this, actually. The more I think about this, the more I can see him getting mad at people for being selfish and ungenerous at a wedding, he's very bothered by people not being "classy," and the whole religious motive for controlling the alcohol would make him mad (actually, it would bother me too, I'd probably express some irritation at that myself).

But point being this isn't your mother's wedding, it's yours, and your mother is having a clash of values with your fiance's parents values, and I think the way she's expressing it is typical ESFJ, yeah.

Sorry...it takes me a while to process things. The more I think, the more I come up with, the more angles I see. I wonder if I respond initially with my Fi values and Se response, then Ni kicks in later and I see all these different perspectives as my mind slowly cranks lol.

 

[Glycerine]

Here's a thought... "rude" can be an euphemism for a slight to someone's sensibilities/values. It has nothing to do w/ type. You and your mother do not see eye to eye. Confronting and making an issue of it, will make your life a LIVING HELL more than right now especially since it's a high stress time. Just take her with a grain of salt or try to make her understand you by acknowledging her POV... just try to see things from her point of view no matter how crazy you think it is and then try to explain your side. If that doesn't work, just don't bother. I have learned if you understand where the other person's coming from, they will be receptive other points of view unless they are fanatical. If that's the case, ignoring is the optimal option.

 

[Haven]

yes, you seem like a very rude person. I can see why your mother doesn't like you and wont pay for your alcohol.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

If they are not drinkers due to a value/principle rather than merely their own personal habits, they are not going to feel that good about personally funding any alcohol. They are probably already making a big concession to have a bar (in an attempt to respect the other side of the family). I don't think the issue is being cheap or afraid of people overdrinking, so much as not considering alcohol in the same category as just serving a kind of food or beverage that they personally don't care for.

You are exactly right!

 

[Thalassa]

yes, you seem like a very rude person. I can see why your mother doesn't like you and wont pay for your alcohol.

LMAO!!

Sorry. That was pretty funny.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

yes, you seem like a very rude person. I can see why your mother doesn't like you and wont pay for your alcohol.

Lol. Read. It's not about my mom not paying for alcohol

 

[Fidelia]

Lol! Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[ICUP]

Thanks for your response. Sometimes she does come around, whether it's days later or hours later. And she ends up making me feel bad because she'll tell me "Oh I didn't know you felt that way. I feel terrible. I just want the best for you. I am trying my hardest"...but it's like guilt tripping.

I wish I could have her less involved but since she is paying for it, she deserves a right to be involved. But it's any idea i throw at her, she will either laugh in my face or cry her eyes out because it's distasteful and rude in her eyes. (Like when she thought I was walking down the isle to Here Comes the Bride, I told her I wanted a more contemporary song---she started to cry her eyes out, saying that how could her daughter not walk down the isle to Here Comes the Bride!!!)

I try not to get worked up, but it's annoying when she starts to voice her opinion to everyone else "Can you believe my daughter's in-laws WONT PAY FOR ALCOHOL?!" she'll announce this to all of her friends and my family and her and my ESFJ grandmother just team up against me and try and make me feel awful. They don't let it go. And not just with the bar stuff, with Everything about the wedding... bllaaahhhh

I feel bad for you. At the same time, you know her, and this is what you get for allowing her to pay for your wedding. I would not do the same with my mother. I keep my space.

If someone (anyone), including my mother, treated me this way, I would probably become so irate, I wouldn't speak to them for a year.

If you don't want this shit to happen to you, you have to use a little thing called boundaries. It's YOUR wedding, and it should be YOUR way. You make the rules, and they freaking listen. You need to lay down the law.

 

[Haven]

Lol. Read. It's not about my mom not paying for alcohol

ah you got me, I read like 10 words. Not that I really care though.

 

[Glycerine]

Why not just do a "Bring your own beer" thing? That's what my brother did at his wedding and it was a non-issue. The fancy drink was sparkling juice.

 

[Thalassa]

Why not just do a "Bring your own beer" thing? That's what my brother did at his wedding and it was a non-issue. The fancy drink was sparkling juice.

Because people go to weddings for the free booze, lol.

I'm not saying that's always the case, but I think there's an undercurrent of this social norm...that a wedding is a community celebration...and typically big fancy weddings have open bars.

Not that any wedding *has* to be any certain way, which is what I'm sure the OP is frustrated about. Her irritation with her mother probably stems from rejecting the idea that her wedding has to be any particular way, or follow any social rules or traditions...or please random guests.

 

[redcheerio]

Just put your foot down gently. Tell her you appreciate her, love her, and that you know she only has the best for you in mind. But it's your special day, not hers.

If they are not drinkers due to a value/principle rather than merely their own personal habits, they are not going to feel that good about personally funding any alcohol. They are probably already making a big concession to have a bar (in an attempt to respect the other side of the family). I don't think the issue is being cheap or afraid of people overdrinking, so much as not considering alcohol in the same category as just serving a kind of food or beverage that they personally don't care for.

Exactly.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if the majority of people aren't drinking then won't an open bar not cost them a whole lot/there won't be many drunk people to monitor?

Usually the way it works with open bar is that you pay a per guest fee. So if less than half of the guests are going to drink, the per guest fee will be double what it should be. That would mean the people footing the bill would be paying double the fee for something they don't even feel comfortable with in the first place.

In this situation, I think it's completely fair to not have an open bar.

Could you compromise by offering a bottle of wine on each table? I've also been to weddings and parties where the bar was only open for a limited time, like an hour, so that's another possible compromise.

Or, depending on the venue, you can get your own liquor license and bring your own stash of alcohol for the guests.

 

[OrangeAppled]

One part of the problem is that people go to weddings with expectations, and your mom knows this. It's part of ESFJ mentality to be intune with what people expect. In a sense, she may be right; people may judge you negatively because you did not do things the way they expected.

However, increasingly people are getting fed up with the high pressure of weddings to meet certain expectations that are very costly and not in accord with the couple's personal tastes, beliefs or lifestyle. Because of this, people are dropping many expectations, becoming more open to nontraditional weddings & receptions.

As a guest, it is also rude to go to a wedding ceremony and have expectations about how YOU want to be entertained, as if that is its purpose, instead of regarding it as sharing in an important event in a friend's life. The wedding reception is NOT about entertaining or impressing people; it's about celebrating your new marriage.

I understand why some people may not want a bunch of drunks at a significant event in their life that is extremely symbolic, not just a party for fun. I understand why they don't want to pay for something they don't think will be used/appreciated by MOST of the guests. I understand not paying for something they may even have a moral issue with. I don't understand guests being demanding with their expectations, as if the event exists mainly for their amusement. Being a generous host is important, but so is being a gracious guest.

I see the cash bar as a way of saying, "For whatever reason, we do not want to provide alcohol, but we're not going to prevent you from drinking if you want to, so here's a cash bar for easy access to alcohol you can buy yourselves if you're so inclined". A lot of weddings don't even have full bars at all, but they may simply provide some wine and/or champagne. That might be the better way to go if they want to control cost & consumption & still provide some free, but limited alcohol for those who drink. If they're totally anti-alcohol because it's more of a moral issue, then maybe your mom should take the cost of providing some alcohol & negotiate with them to take some other cost your mom was going to cover.

Usually the way it works with open bar is that you pay a per guest fee. So if less than half of the guests are going to drink, the per guest fee will be double what it should be. That would mean the people footing the bill would be paying double the fee for something they don't even feel comfortable with in the first place.

In this situation, I think it's completely fair to not have an open bar.

Could you compromise by offering a bottle of wine on each table? I've also been to weddings and parties where the bar was only open for a limited time, like an hour, so that's another possible compromise.

Or, depending on the venue, you can get your own liquor license and bring your own stash of alcohol for the guests.

Agreed, especially with the possible alternative solutions.

 

[21%]

Great advice from OA, especially her first post

 

[mrcockburn]

LOL. An ESFJ mother involved in her daughter's wedding?

hoo boy...

 

[Tiltyred]

I paid for my own wedding, too. Which meant I had about 20 guests, it was a morning wedding, and there was cake and punch after. I don't really understand wedding hoopla -- it seems like a bad custom in some ways, so much stress, so much expenditure. But people are horrified when I suggest eloping, or getting married by a JP and going out to dinner after, so ...

If it's a traditional wedding, I guess your mother wants it to be traditional. Maybe you could get away from that if you frame it as a Do Your Own Thing wedding. Traditional with twists might be confusing her.

 

[Lady_X]

i agree with oa totally...in that she may be right about peoples expectations but if it were me it wouldn't sway me a bit. i think it's totally rude of guests to judge or to have certain expectations. i view it as completely selfish and i'd find it insulting if my mother cared more about the guests wishes than my own. i like to think of myself as a pretty considerate person but i'm beginning to think i define it much differently than a fe user would. i think it's rude to expect people to walk on eggshells around you and take responsibility for your emotions. they think it's rude not to...or something....it bugs me.