[NF] NF Male and Masculinity

[Crescent Fresh]

ENFP men make good friends. I have a couple in real life. But it's true they get too aggressive when attempting to assert their masculinity. It comes across as disingenuous since they use emotional manipulation to do so. For some reason the song "one of these things is not like the other", comes to mind.

That's what I mean. When they try to act 'rough,' it's kind of unnatural to me as I can easily pick up on that. And usually when they're acting emotional during a conflict. One of an ENFP male actually have to tell me over IM that he's so upset that he's crying now. I felt there's a huge potential for them to dramatize to a point that I immediately felt being manipulated. That's the only complain I have with ENFP males and it does have a huge affect to lessen their masculinity through such emotional trip.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

I will get back to other post as there are some interesting points which I would like to address.


Btw, I am still wondering what's the biggest difference between INFJ and INFP males? Because I don't think I've met any INFP male yet.

 

[Rail Tracer]

I didn't much resent my feminine side.

In a way, it was much more like I hid my feminine side. However, I don't think I've acted "rough and tough" to hide it nor did I act "rough and tough" to seem more masculine. How I hid it was more like this kind of complacent attitude. Being calm, cool, and collected, it was like a little boy preventing himself from crying because crying was only for girls.

In theory, they call what I am doing a preventive measure. Show less of your feminine side, and you wouldn't need to show more of your masculine side. As opposed to the other theory, it compensates for more of the feminine qualities by counteracting it with more masculine qualities.

I still have issues with showing my feminine side, but it has become softer with time.

When it comes to INFJ male, I felt they are more reserved and shy. They also seem to be quite uncomfortable in a large group setting, always seem to be a little too quiet. One-on-one is an entirely different story.

I think this might be a glimpse of it.

 

[Matt_s]

I don't think I came in touch with my masculinity until I gave up on being masculine. I was never really good at it. It wasn't fear so much as disgust at all the macho posturing I encountered in my daily life. Excessively firm handshakes, etc. It always seemed stupid to me. I felt like there was something wrong with me for a long time. Humor got me through it. I got decent at ball busting and backslapping in the military but always felt disingenuous in these dealings. I eventually decided I'm mincing and a bit strange and to live my life accordingly.

In brief I'd equate confident agency with masculinity. Once I accepted the fact that I'll never smash a beer can on my forehead I was able to evaluate myself as a man more objectively. I'll still have no part in pissing contests, but I live in less fear and am more open in sharing my ideas for solutions. I take more initiative. I'm as soft-spoken as usual but I like to think I've gone from Edward Scissorhands to Clint Eastwood. Of course I could be completely delusional.

 

[Coriolis]

In brief I'd equate confident agency with masculinity. Once I accepted the fact that I'll never smash a beer can on my forehead I was able to evaluate myself as a man more objectively. I'll still have no part in pissing contests, but I live in less fear and am more open in sharing my ideas for solutions. I take more initiative. I'm as soft-spoken as usual but I like to think I've gone from Edward Scissorhands to Clint Eastwood. Of course I could be completely delusional.

I would equate this more with TJ, or even FJ in certain contexts. Much of what we attribute to masculine/feminine differences are really type differences. Masculine and feminine are universal constants, but as people have already pointed out, everyone has some of each, just as right handed people still use their left hand, etc.

 

[Eckhart]

I might have been overcompensating masculinity in parts of my life maybe. I was rather easy to hurt when I was a child and overall physically rather weak, and it was difficult to get along like that at secondary school. At some points I put on a facade of arrogance and indifference, and pretending to be rather unemotional. I tried to make myself look more masculine or older with facial hair (I always had and still have a rather boyish look). Of course at least some people could see through it rather easily, at least after some time.

I gave up on most of that. I noticed that while it helped with some problems I had before that, it caused a whole lot of new problems which are even more damaging for me. Now I try to be more like myself, more natural and not to care too much about other peoples impressions. However it probably had impact on how my personality shaped in the end, because it is still difficult for me to be less distanced often.

 

[Elfboy]

as corny as it sounds, I think Yugi from Yugioh is an exaggerated look into the psyche of an NFP male
side 1: feminine, harmony seeking, artistic, caring, cherishes friends
side 2: masculine, dramatic, strong leader, charismatic, protective
for me at least, balancing these 2 very different sides has been fairly challenging

 

[iwakar]

Appearance should be factored into people's perceptions because accurate or not they play a huge part. Testosterone does wonders to morph the facade of what most consider feminine attributes. My INFP ex was a big guy, not just heavy, but large (think linebacker) with a superhero jawline and Grizzly Adam's beard. I knew he was a giant teddy, but he definitely looked like a man's man. He was a quiet guy and most women (and men) chalked him up to the strong, silent type on account of his general unflappability and even-keeled responses in stressful scenarios.

...Of course he would freak out on the inside and vent to me privately, but they never knew that.

 

[William K]

I'd think that INFP males would just shrug things off that they don't fit the masculine image either by
1) Thinking that others will not understand them anyway
2) Stubbornly say "This is who I am. Take it or leave it"
3) Having enough confidence and self-assurance to do whatever they want to do or be whoever they want to be

Personally speaking, being physically slight certainly didn't help when I was in school. I'm much more content now with my pastel-coloured shirts and soft toy collection

 

[SRT]

I will get back to other post as there are some interesting points which I would like to address.


Btw, I am still wondering what's the biggest difference between INFJ and INFP males? Because I don't think I've met any INFP male yet.

Outwardly? Probably just a general complacency towards change/chaos. I believe male INFJs would be less excited, and less accepting, of the unexpected. Inwardly is a different story, but trying to distinguish between them by how they act is pretty difficult.

 

[Wanderer]

I might have been overcompensating masculinity in parts of my life maybe. I was rather easy to hurt when I was a child and overall physically rather weak, and it was difficult to get along like that at secondary school. At some points I put on a facade of arrogance and indifference, and pretending to be rather unemotional. I tried to make myself look more masculine or older with facial hair (I always had and still have a rather boyish look). Of course at least some people could see through it rather easily, at least after some time.

I gave up on most of that. I noticed that while it helped with some problems I had before that, it caused a whole lot of new problems which are even more damaging for me. Now I try to be more like myself, more natural and not to care too much about other peoples impressions. However it probably had impact on how my personality shaped in the end, because it is still difficult for me to be less distanced often.

Um. That could practically be a word for word description of my life so far, except I managed to make it till midway through college before I started turning to a facade of arrogance and indifference, and I've definitely distanced myself from most everyone and detached from my emotions as best I can. What issues did you run into, and why?

 

[Eckhart]

Um. That could practically be a word for word description of my life so far, except I managed to make it till midway through college before I started turning to a facade of arrogance and indifference, and I've definitely distanced myself from most everyone and detached from my emotions as best I can. What issues did you run into, and why?

Well, when you are too distanced all the time, it is hard to get closer to people. I generally felt I could get along relatively well with people, but it was nearly impossible to form some kind of real friendships. My contact to most people, even those which I generally liked, was quite superficial, more superficial than I wished it was. Not to mention when I was in love with this girl, I was simply not able to show her how I felt for her, and maybe I had a chance that she was feeling similarily and missed it. In that time I also found to be confronted with a whole lot of more problems in my life which really had eaten me up; two death cases in my family alongside with a whole lot of general stress involved with their illness before for my parents which affected the whole atmosphere at home, and the fear of loneliness because I knew the time of school was going to its end and knew I didn't have much time anymore to change things to the better with the people I liked. I couldn't show anyone how I felt about my problems, and I just isolated more and more, and people probably didn't understand what was going on in me at that time because I never spoke to anyone about it, but it lead to them being less interested in me as well I think.

Well, and then I ended up quite lonely indeed. On the other hand that loneliness gave me the time to think about many things and that is what made me open up a little bit again I believe.

 

[Epiphany]

Generally, NF men have plenty of masculine in them. Afterall, everyone has both masculine and feminine aspects. So I don't think the lack of masculine is the real problem here. Rather, it seems common that NF males become aware of their feminine sides at a younger age, during a time when adults and younger boys (and girls, sometimes) can be extremely cruel about behavior that doesn't fit a societal expectation of masculine. So we learn to resent the feminine aspects of ourselves.

Oddly enough, I think that this resentment of the feminine creates a situation akin to trying to not think about a pink elephant when you are told to not think about a pink elephant. It's the difference between trying to develop masculinity, and trying to not be feminine. So ironically, NF males will sometimes learn to hide their tendencies to be feminine with exaggerated expressions of femininity - such as trying to assert dominance by going into an emotional rage.

I think a big part of this is simply accepting how our feminine aspects affect our thoughts and feelings... so we can be aware of it and then choose to act on that or move beyond it. Beyond the emotions exists the empty void that guys spend their life dancing with, and in my opinion that emptiness is one of the sources of masculine energy.

There's another element to this whole thing that I think will especially resonate with most NF males, and that's the need for a Purpose in Life. This is actually where I'm stuck right now, so for the time being I got nothing on how to discover and integrate this. But I do believe that a lot of things fall in place once an NF male is directing his life towards fulfilling his Purpose, and perhaps that is one of the most powerful expressions of masculinity that we can offer the world.

And I'm quite sleepy, so hopefully that actually made sense.

I would extend the bolded part to adulthood, as well. I don't regard behaviors as feminine or masculine, though many are stereotyped as such. I agree that male NFs may learn at an early age and throughout our lives that our natural strengths, and I do consider them strengths, are not as valued by society in men and we are often criticized for it. This negative feedback will undoubtedly have an effect on the individual's perception of himself and his place in the world. It's easy for women to point their finger at a male and say, "I'm not attracted to him because he doesn't have enough confidence," when confidence may not be the issue at all. He could be entirely content with himself, but discontent that his personality doesn't attract women. Compare this to the man who is entirely content with himself and constantly receives positive feedback from others because his natural inclinations are considered "masculine" and attractive. The two aren't on an even playing field. The former must decide if being himself, at the expense of loneliness, is worth the consequences. The latter doesn't have to change anything.

I don't think most male NFs resent the so-called "feminine" aspects of their personality. They resent the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of it.

 

[iwakar]

Well said MM. I think the tide will change however, it will be slow but I feel it is also inevitable.

 

[Elfboy]

I would extend the bolded part to adulthood, as well. I don't regard behaviors as feminine or masculine, though many are stereotyped as such. I agree that male NFs may learn at an early age and throughout our lives that our natural strengths, and I do consider them strengths, are not as valued by society in men and we are often criticized for it. This negative feedback will undoubtedly have an effect on the individual's perception of himself and his place in the world. It's easy for women to point their finger at a male and say, "I'm not attracted to him because he doesn't have enough confidence," when confidence may not be the issue at all. He could be entirely content with himself, but discontent that his personality doesn't attract women. Compare this to the man who is entirely content with himself and constantly receives positive feedback from others because his natural inclinations are considered "masculine" and attractive. The two aren't on even playing fields. The former must decide if being himself, at the expense of loneliness, is worth the consequences. The latter doesn't have to change anything.

I don't think most male NFs resent the so-called "feminine" aspects of their personality. They resent the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of it.

speak for youself

 

[Epiphany]

Well said MM. I think the tide will change however, it will be slow but I feel it is also inevitable.

I wish I was as optimistic.

speak for youself

Don't worry! You're not an NF, and definitely not an INFP so stop desecrating the type every other week.

 

[erm]

I don't think most male NFs resent the so-called "feminine" aspects of their personality. They resent the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of it.

I think that's true with a lot of NF males, but equally a lot actually end up being more attractive because of their NFness. It's down to the individual and how their NFness manifests. Some effectively keep all the attractive masculine traits, and have a lot more attractive feminine traits than normal. Some get all the unattractive traits of both sides. Then, of course, there's the massive variation in what androsexuals find attractive, so they'll usually be a large minority who finds the outliers attractive regardless.

It's more than just women though, it's society that tends to reject feminine traits in men. I don't see men reacting any better, including other NF men, to feminine behaviour. That's why I hide my feminine traits, as they tend to lose me friends quickly. The best I can do is play them up to get some laughs, almost like self deprecating humour (except I don't see it as deprecating), but I've never seen someone take them seriously.

As for confidence. Well often "confidence" is referring to aggressive, confrontational, upfront attitudes, as opposed to how secure one is in something. It's strange because sometimes insecurity, associated with a lack of confidence, leads to those same behaviours. I guess they could be grouped into external and internal confidence, which do not necessarily coincide, where external confidence is the one stereotypically seen as more attractive.

 

[Elfboy]

I wish I was as optimistic.
Don't worry! You're not an NF, and definitely not an INFP so stop desecrating the type every other week.

what do you think I am then, ENTJ

 

[Antimony]

You is ISTP.

 

[Elfboy]

chalk it up on one of the 5 threads already up on people arguing over my type