[MBTI General] ESTP & INFJ shadowdance

[alisonrach]

One of my best INFJ friends was married to an ESTP for 5 years, but they divorced.

They loved one another, but were never able to communicate effectively/understand each other. The last two years my INFJ friend tried many various things, tried counseling, took both to counseling, tried to make it work, but the ESTP was not 'there' - was not receptive to it. It took the divorce itself and his learnings from that to get to that maturity point and realize what happened. He was blind to the dynamics prior to that end. I realize this is one-sided, but even two years after the divorce, she wanted further clarity and they got together a few weeks ago and she really wanted to know what she did wrong, where things slipped from his perspective, why it didn't work when he clearly and obviously loved her, why he didn't listen when she was saying things weren't going well, what happened. He mentioned a few things that made communication difficult, but said point-blank 90% was his fault. With them, it was a belated syncing up, and the syncing up didn't occur until he was slammed with the reality of it being over. It's like.. he didn't see any of it prior, or didn't want to see it, or didn't take her seriously when she said things needed to be fixed/addressed.. and he certainly didn't take the counseling seriously, which was her final straw where she threw up her hands and said it was over. I want to make it clear I don't think he's a bad guy, and she obviously played a role too, and obviously they both loved one another as they got married. He wasn't manipulative/bad/whatever in the slightest; he by all counts adored her - he was just completely and utterly clueless to the relationship crumbling under his feet, and never thought there was a problem until it was too late.

I think ESTP+INFJ *can*work, because there's an obvious attraction and chemistry and the two can complement, but I think it is much harder than many matchups due to the fact that in the end, the two have very different driving forces & motivations. So I think there is more to overcome / more stumbling blocks than in some other relationships. But in the end, all relationships require maturity, common ground/vision, and both parties being willing to put forth the effort, understanding, and work.

I completely agree. I'm an INFJ dating an ISTP. We have the same problem but because I completely understand him I can help him understand me. However when I tell him we are having problems he really only gets it when I threaten the relationship or distance myself from him (both not good) which is why lifelong commitments between these types are difficult. INFJs and ESTPs are extremely compatible as friends so I think it was the person in question not the type.

 

[Reverie]

Yeah this is actually a post from over half a year ago. I was really upset at the time...
I think in retrospect this person throwing me parties and being super nice was their way of trying to make amends for what happened.
I just didn't find out the fact she'd played the main role in the whole shebang until after all the secret making amends, which made it even more insulting.

I'm ok now about everything. I found out things about myself and what I value so maybe it was for the better in the end. Don't give me wrong, I don't like what this person did (I'm still angry) but I can see her redeeming characteristics: She's boyant and positive, does a lot of wheeling and dealing and actually helps people do concrete things, gets everyone exited, is funny as hell and smart as a whip. That said her least appealing characteristic is that she thinks she can play people without them knowing, by showering them with compliments, dropping hints, gossipping and calculated innuendo. sometimes it works if someone expects others to have more scruples, but mainly everyone knows her number. It's the emperor's new clothes. Everyone loves her for her boyant spirits so they say nothing.
...anyway. I think in the future I'll just find people who are more compatible and whose methods are less unscrupulous to work with.
This thread was really just about a relationship gone wrong, so I guess it's just kind of personal.
I didn't really know much about general type to type communications, but thank you all for sharing your experiences and insight, INFJs and ESTPs alike.