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[NF] NF & Spirituality

cheap

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Religion is good escapism!

As of right now, I am in the midst of reconciling my beliefs. This post is only a tiny portion of it all. I was brought up Buddhist and it still makes the most sense to me, although I do believe in the whole soul age thing, which it dismisses. But I see that as being the same thing as karma with being born into a new life, resuming from where we left off regardless of whether we're headed backwards or forwards, or should I say upwards or downwards.

"There is no truth, only truths" pretty much sums up my worldview in a worldly context. I idealise that no one's life should be cheated by "false" belief but then again, that false belief could be his or her karma being paid off. And of course this is only my interpretation of what could be happening to someone because nothing you don't believe applies to your mindset. Or there are absolute truths and it is only our perception that interprets the contradictions, but I’m more inclined to believe those are universal principles like “good things happen to good people.”

More recently Christianity has been introduced properly to me. I realise that people are going to be sceptical unless they've had a personal experience or "calling". I've even joined a Myspace group called "I saw Jesus Christ" as a personal witness to some pretty amazing miracles.
I especially don't like the idea of trying to convert people though. We'll all get to wherever we're going and meant to be eventually…okay, and for that, we need *some* conversion crusaders. If you want to recommend God, sharing personal experiences of why it worked for you is more effective than bible thumping or door-to-door preaching. But I can rest in trusting that most organised religions have good intentions.

My friend told me she finds Christianity negative; that telling us we're all sinners is harsh. She resents “God's divinity” because "He sent his son to die (but if you believe in the trinity then Jesus was also a part of God), and He exposed us to evil." But if we didn't refer to our perception of Him as a deity, just a force, then I'd find it easier to comprehend that inherent evil is just how life works, that it wasn't *done to us*. Being told that part of me is evil isn't cruel, it's how humility has been taught, by being grateful for even the IDEA that Jesus, or anyone would, die for us. It makes me want to change.

I idealise that there are infinite soul paths... --this is an unfinished pondering and boy do I feel crazy believing it. Is truth divergent or convergent (via reconciled contradictions)? And then it's both in some areas of my mind. :/

I have every reason to believe that higher powers are real, churning the earth and the universe, and that whether any of it is real or not depends on the type of meaning you are after and how connected you are in its pursuit. For me, it was as simple as choosing to take the elevator over staying longer on the ground floor. This is difficult because the physical plane is so adversely distractive, but we'll all get sick of life eventually and I embraced religion because I felt ready for a transformation. I’m afraid of what I’m capable of and the best opportunity I have to scrub my slate is while I’m tame. As a good friend of mine put it "I'm living for forever."

I don't take Christianity's worldview too literally. What's wrong with believing creation took place through evolution? or that God's judgement is karma? I see God as the force which binds the universe and is thus greater than it. If we all have a Buddha nature which can be cultivated, I have faith that it is possible to merge again with God and the universe.

The bottom line is that intuition tells me it is OKAY to have the subjective interpretations I do, as long as it reinforces my will to strengthen and exert my morals. We all have it in us to shake off our inherent taints. It's the only way we can lighten our spirits and transcend to higher planes.


Good thread, just my two cents.
 

aeon

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In the Value Sorter thread, five people identified Spirituality as a core value. IIRC, all of them typed as NF. I was one of those five.


cheers,
Ian
 

cafe

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I am kind of an agnostic Evangelical Christian, specifically Pentecostal. I don't think we can know in this life, but I still believe.
 

Kyrielle

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I don't suscribe to any religion and I prefer to be aware of all the different stories and myths that power human reasoning. Sometimes I think the greatest peace can be found in experiencing the 'now' for a while...grounding yourself completely and becoming utterly aware of every sense (probably because I'm almost never grounded at all and practically deaf, blind, and mute some moments).

Anyway. All those big questions...you'll never know the answer to them. They're really only worth pondering for a while and burning time. Even if you could know the answer...would you want to? Would take all the mystery and fun out of life!
 

alcea rosea

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I'm not spiritual or religious. I'm not atheist either. I have no name to my beliefs.

Why would you connect idealism with religion/spiritualism? Idealism has nothing to do with being religious.

Dictionary.com:
i•de•al•ism
–noun 1. the cherishing or pursuit of high or noble principles, purposes, goals, etc.
2. the practice of idealizing.
3. something idealized; an ideal representation.
4. Fine Arts. treatment of subject matter in a work of art in which a mental conception of beauty or form is stressed, characterized usually by the selection of particular features of various models and their combination into a whole according to a standard of perfection. Compare naturalism (def. 2), realism (def. 3a).
5. Philosophy. a. any system or theory that maintains that the real is of the nature of thought or that the object of external perception consists of ideas.
b. the tendency to represent things in an ideal form, or as they might or should be rather than as they are, with emphasis on values.

Many organized religions are very hypocritical and very judging of what is appropriate and proper. In my eyes the message from bible is love and acceptance of all. I am Lutheran but it's just a "habit". I think I will search my religious answer from Buddhism or some other more peaceful religion although I doubt I find my idealism in religion. Ever.
 
B

ByMySword

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I'm no longer religious, but I am spiritual. I believe in a God or some other type of higher power, and feel that the Christian philosophy is a good one. Though I don't necessarily live my life by it. I do consider myself a Christian in the spiritual sense.

I'm very spiritual, though. I think there is more to life than just this. And I like to look at spirituality as logically as possible.
 

Seanan

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Many organized religions are very hypocritical and very judging of what is appropriate and proper.

No, they aren't actually... although some religious people may be... those who don't actually live their religion and, in fact, may not even know what its actual principles are.
 

Nameless

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I am an athiest.
But I believe in that part of people that makes a team of doctors work tirelessly to repair a little boy's face after he has been car bombed. And that larger-than-life feeling you get when you're surrounded by nature, like crashing waves or huge trees or snow-capped mountains. And in love, even though I have been taught it is just an evolutionary trick.
 

Butterfly

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Mmmm nice replies.

I noticed a trend.

1. Disgruntled with the illogical side of Christianity, therefore discarded it and have either become atheists or are practicing christianity out of 'habit'.

2. Looking for peace and meaning in other 'spiritual' outlets, eg Bhuddism and Taoism. Which is all feel good philosophies without any accountability or code of living the practical side of life.

I dont see much variety here. How about other religions? eg hinduism, islam, judaism etc?
 

Tophsquatch

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Variety

Mmmm nice replies.

I noticed a trend.

1. Disgruntled with the illogical side of Christianity, therefore discarded it and have either become atheists or are practicing christianity out of 'habit'.

2. Looking for peace and meaning in other 'spiritual' outlets, eg Bhuddism and Taoism. Which is all feel good philosophies without any accountability or code of living the practical side of life.

I dont see much variety here. How about other religions? eg hinduism, islam, judaism etc?

I have a question for all you out there disallusioned with Christianity...have you ever tried a different Christian church? A different denomination? You may find what you're looking for there...not all churches are the same, believe it or not!!

> I am formally Catholic.

>I adopted the Nazarene denomination because I was seeking God and I couldn't find him in the Catholic Church (no offense to any Catholics here, I still hold a great respect for many aspects of your Church).

> After two years, I dropped the first Nazarene church I attended because I did not believe the Spirit was there anymore.

> I now go to another, Nazarene church (because I love the doctorine of holiness) with a Pastor can bring on a sermon like no other and it is evident to me that the Spirit is with him and is present there.

> I also attend a Covenant "super church" called Bayside; I consider the Nazarene church my home church (it gets first dibs in ministry), but I also go to Bayside for Saturday night services and Sunday night singles group (which consists of like 100 singles).

I take my church very seriously; I do not leave one lightly and I'd prefer to not leave one at all, but I follow God and there have been times in my life where it's been evident He wasn't where I attended. Great blessings have followed the times when I did follow him.

I urge you folks...before putting down Christ altogether, if you haven't already, seek elsewhere to try to attend. We NFs aren't Guardians!! Stuffy church doesn't do it for us!! God is not stuffy!!
 

Butterfly

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I have a question for all you out there disallusioned with Christianity...have you ever tried a different Christian church? A different denomination? You may find what you're looking for there...not all churches are the same, believe it or not!!

> I am formally Catholic.

>I adopted the Nazarene denomination because I was seeking God and I couldn't find him in the Catholic Church (no offense to any Catholics here, I still hold a great respect for many aspects of your Church).

> After two years, I dropped the first Nazarene church I attended because I did not believe the Spirit was there anymore.

> I now go to another, Nazarene church (because I love the doctorine of holiness) with a Pastor can bring on a sermon like no other and it is evident to me that the Spirit is with him and is present there.

> I also attend a Covenant "super church" called Bayside; I consider the Nazarene church my home church (it gets first dibs in ministry), but I also go to Bayside for Saturday night services and Sunday night singles group (which consists of like 100 singles).

I take my church very seriously; I do not leave one lightly and I'd prefer to not leave one at all, but I follow God and there have been times in my life where it's been evident He wasn't where I attended. Great blessings have followed the times when I did follow him.

I urge you folks...before putting down Christ altogether, if you haven't already, seek elsewhere to try to attend. We NFs aren't Guardians!! Stuffy church doesn't do it for us!! God is not stuffy!!

OK, so that killed the convo. :huh:

Guess not many Christians around hey!
 

Cality

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I am a christian, come from an evangelical family but I am more my own religion now because i've been so disallusionned with churches or so.
I believe all the traditional things on Jesus, savior of the world and my personal savior too but I have a broader and non-fondamentalist point of view on bible interpretation. I love going to anglican churches. I get the feeling of being back to the roots without all the fake freedom of evangelical churches who turnes out to be extremly traditionalist, more than anglican churches.
 

Hide-n-Seek

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Hi,
I am new here. Nice topic.
I believe that religion and spirituality can be combined, therefore the reason I chose Sufism or Islamic mysticism.
Here is an explanation of what it is:

Australian Centre for Sufism and Irfanic Studies - Sufism / Irfan
It also talks of Love, Peace and respect for the creation of God.
Australian Centre for Sufism and Irfanic Studies - Tasawwuf

The purpose of Creation is to find and worship the ONE TRUE GOD. There is only One God. God says "I was a hidden treasure wanting to be discovered, so I created creation".
“The life of this world is nothing but a play, whereas, behold, the life in the hereafter is indeed the only (true) life: if they but knew this!” - Qur’an 29:64
I believe in:
- One God;
- the angels;
- the Holy books revealed to us by God (though most except quran have been distorted to some extent);
- the Prophets sent to us by God to give His message of Divine Oneness (including Mohammed, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, etc etc may peace and blessings be on all of them);
- destiny (both good and bad comes from God-though we are responsible for our actions);
- and Day of Judgement (where what we did on earth we will be accountable for- then either Heaven or Hell awaits us).

So we should refocus on whats important. That we should find and worship the one true God to make our life on earth peaceful and meaningful, while saving ourself from eternal damnation.
:)
 

AfterHours

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So my inquiry is:
How many of NFs that you know find peace in spirituality and religion, or are there any Atheists NFs there? If so, wouldn't it go against their core being of being an Idealist??

:)

I am agnostic, but deeply fascinated by different religions and find it interesting that they all attempt to answer the same questions in different ways. Of course they don't reveal any ultimate truth. I want there to be an actual reason for my existence, and for that of the universe, but I would feel like a hypocrite if I chose to believe something just so I could feel at peace.
 

Kyrielle

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I find it amusing that suddenly "we should"s (not "I should"s) and "I urge you"s are appearing in responses.

Not sure what that means. Just interesting that others appear to be trying to get people to ride in their boat? I could be interpreting the words wrong, of course. But I felt it needed to be said.
 

anii

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I will be honest and say I have been rather fucked up by religion. Maybe not religion per se but by patriarchy in the guise of religion (and also family) specifically.

My type preferences (while I was unconscious of them) likely contributed to the ease with which I was manipulated, coerced and fear-mongered into accepting (at least on the surface) dogma that was uncomfortably ill-fitting to my core values and ideals.

But these same type preferences (once I became aware of them and their potential benefit) have become the way out - the means of escape from what I can only describe as a life of imprisonment. Built by others to be sure at first, and then self-perpetuated. The admission that I kept it going does not make me weak but strong. It means I can change it.

Ignorance is no excuse. But knowledge truly is power.

As for spirituality . . . that is something I am in the process of exploring. Actually, it's more like recognizing . . . I have a feeling it's been there all along, underneath all of the dogmatic crap, and that this is what I was seeking all along. It's not over yet.
 

cafe

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The practice of my religion is, to some extent, habit and my intellectual stance is agnostic as I said, but my faith is not some dead habit I lack the energy to throw off. My belief in and love for Christ is strong, if quiet. He is my lord and my God.
 

Cality

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The practice of my religion is, to some extent, habit and my intellectual stance is agnostic as I said, but my faith is not some dead habit I lack the energy to throw off. My belief in and love for Christ is strong, if quiet. He is my lord and my God.

i kinda feel this way too
 

BallentineChen

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2. Looking for peace and meaning in other 'spiritual' outlets, eg Bhuddism and Taoism. Which is all feel good philosophies without any accountability or code of living the practical side of life.


I'm not Buddhist though I've been raised around it, and it continues to intersect my life. I would consider myself a functional agnostic. My limited knowledge of Buddhism tells me that it's not a "feel good" religion. I'm wondering how you arrived at that conclusion.
 

Butterfly

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I'm not Buddhist though I've been raised around it, and it continues to intersect my life. I would consider myself a

Similarly in Islam, there are laws that govern the external side of life, eg the Shariah law. This includes again crime and punishment, banking, international law, etc etc.

functional agnostic. My limited knowledge of Buddhism tells me that it's not a "feel good" religion. I'm wondering how you arrived at that conclusion.



Hi BellentineChen,
Sorry for getting back to you so late.
Firstly, let me make clear that I am in no way insulting Buddism and no way intend to hurt feelings of any Buddists.
What I mean to say was, it was 'feel good' in the sense that it focuses a lot on spirituality and on the self, compared to other religions. Other religions have laws that deal with the external realities of life also. Such as crime and punishment, legal issues, social dealings, finance etc etc.
For example:
In Judaism, there are strict laws derived from their Holy books that cover many issues that are on everyday practical sense and not just the spiritual side of things.
In Christianity as well, there are biblical laws eg. Stoning an adulterer.
"They shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them." -- Leviticus 20:27

There are a tremendous number of things you can get executed for in the Bible. "Homosexuality, adultery, astrology, being a disrespectful child, being a drunken son, blasphemy, breaking the Sabbath, perjury, incest, bestiality and witchcraft." And stoning was often the execution of choice. Taken from source: The Toughest Laws in the Bible -- Stoning for Adultery and Other Crimes - Asylum | For All Mankind

Similarly in Islam, there are laws that govern many aspects of the external life, eg, crime and punishment, international law, finance, social dealings etc etc.

Again I am not putting down any religion, but just comparing them.

So I was comparing Bhudism to other major religions where there are not many laws that govern that external lives of people, but rather the focus is only on the self.
So in my personal view, that covers only one side of the coin, because a person is not just an individual, because there is also society to cover.

I hope that answers your question?? :)
 
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