[NF] NFs and...sympathetic imagination?

[kyuuei]

The closer something hits to home, the more I am affected by it.. Someone I know passing away hurts much more than a group of people dying elsewhere. It's not that I don't feel for them--I'm sure it hurts.. but I don't have that much heart for the world. I just can't.. It isn't feasible for me to be happy and live my life in a happy way while trying to feel for everyone who has tragedy--I'd be crying all day.

Some things do anger me though--People's lack of respect for a tragedy makes me angry. I am respectful about things. I was sad to see the tsunami hit Japan, and I felt for the struggle the people would have to endure to rebuild--but I didn't dwell on it long. Though, it irritated the shit out of me when someone made a joke about it. I don't like it when people spend times of respect to be disrespectful. You can see another example in that Amy Winehouse thread.

 

[SilkRoad]

I think it is 100% normal to be affected more by a personal tragedy (ie. one person close to you dying) than by a larger tragedy farther away with people you don't know. Certainly applies to me.

I don't get disrespect for tragedy either. I know jokes are supposed to be one coping mechanism. But just outright disrespect for its own sake, why? Why not at least respect the fact that some people are legitimately grieving this tragedy? Some people always seem to have to make a point or something. I just loved (er, not...) how some non-Americans were like "I don't know why the Americans made such a big deal of 9/11. What a bunch of patriotic crybabies. When there are millions of people dying of other causes every day." I just think...yeah, wait till your country is hit by a terrorist atrocity or you lose someone by mass murder. Then see how you like it when I call you a whiner and a crybaby.

 

[Thalassa]

I do not think NFs have a monopoly on world compassion. Mother Theresa was ISFJ, Princess Diana may have been ISFP. I know SJs who won't stop talking about 9/11 ten years after it happened, and these are people who lost no relatives or friends there.

I reached a point where I think there has to a balance between compassion and allowing yourself to feel overwhelmed by the suffering in the world, because sitting in your bed crying about tragedies isn't helping anyone, it isn't doing anything to prevent it from happening again.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's important to have compassion, never lose it, but I think there's a possibility that people suffering from depression or other issues may project their own feelings or grief on to world tragedies or celebrity deaths, and they're really not able to stop crying because they've got a pre-existing issue (not necessarily chemical, but something as simple as still grieving over the death of a loved one) that they're venting those feelings through the tragedy.

If it truly hurts you that much, and it's not just depression or whatever, then do something about it.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Well, the OP did state in her opening sentance that "This isn't necessarily an NF-specific topic, so I'd certainly like to hear any comments. I think it's probably something we're especially prone to though."

 

[SilkRoad]

Do you see what I'm saying? It's important to have compassion, never lose it, but I think there's a possibility that people suffering from depression or other issues may project their own feelings or grief on to world tragedies or celebrity deaths, and they're really not able to stop crying because they've got a pre-existing issue (not necessarily chemical, but something as simple as still grieving over the death of a lvoed one) that they're venting those feelings through the tragedy.

Yeah...definitely! A lot of people picked up on that with the death of Diana, that people were grieving in this very public way for someone they didn't know, partly to exorcise something from themselves. In my case, I can be more or less affected by tragic news depending on how I'm feeling in generally (emotionally, physically etc). There are days when the "average" bad news of the world doesn't affect me that much, other days when it feels like it could tip me over the edge into a really depressed state. However, there are certain kinds of stories where I will always be hugely affected.

In my case, I'd prefer to maintain that sense of compassion and even horror at tragedies and suffering, but I think I probably feel it too hard sometimes; as some people have pointed out, it's certainly not useful or necessary if it goes too far. I feel other things too hard as well (interpersonal difficulties and disappointments), so I suppose I probably qualify as somewhat emotionally hypersensitive. (Frankly, I'd rather have a bit of a chemical imbalance than just be someone who consistently deals poorly with emotional issues.)

Some self-protection is good too, like my parents have pointed out. Be aware of what's going on, weep with those who weep, do something practical if you can, but don't immerse yourself in it. I don't feel any attachment to or desire for difficult and painful emotions, or a desire to wallow in them - but they tend to overwhelm me anyway. So I can lower my exposure to some of these things somewhat.

And I definitely don't think NFs have the monopoly. I have a friend who is either ISFJ, or ISTJ but quite an "F" ISTJ - she tells me she tends to cry over these things too.

 

[Santosha]

Do you see what I'm saying? It's important to have compassion, never lose it, but I think there's a possibility that people suffering from depression or other issues may project their own feelings or grief on to world tragedies or celebrity deaths, and they're really not able to stop crying because they've got a pre-existing issue (not necessarily chemical, but something as simple as still grieving over the death of a loved one) that they're venting those feelings through the tragedy.

I whole-heartedly agree with the bolded. AND agree that compassion isn't exclusive to anytype.

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah...definitely! A lot of people picked up on that with the death of Diana, that people were grieving in this very public way for someone they didn't know, partly to exorcise something from themselves. In my case, I can be more or less affected by tragic news depending on how I'm feeling in generally (emotionally, physically etc). There are days when the "average" bad news of the world doesn't affect me that much, other days when it feels like it could tip me over the edge into a really depressed state.

In my case, I'd prefer to maintain that sense of compassion and even horror at tragedies and suffering, but I think I probably feel it too hard sometimes; as some people have pointed out, it's certainly not useful or necessary if it goes too far. I feel other things too hard as well (interpersonal difficulties and disappointments), so I suppose I probably qualify as somewhat emotionally hypersensitive.

Some self-protection is good too, like my parents have pointed out. Be aware of what's going on, weep with those who weep, do something practical if you can, but don't immerse yourself in it. I don't feel any attachment to or desire for difficult and painful emotions, or a desire to wallow in them - but they tend to overwhelm me anyway. So I can lower my exposure to some of these things somewhat.

I think it can be symbolic, too. I think sometimes people grieve a figure for what they represent, like someone like Mother Theresa or Princess Diana or Martin Luther King, Jr. represent doing good for mankind, so people could also be grieving over their deaths in a way that's more related to grieving that that person is no longer there to do those good works, like a light went out in a dark world.

I do think not being able to stop crying or not being able to cope with world events may be a symptom of something else...not necessarily even wrong with the individual, but just that they're dwelling far too much on the negatives in the world (our current media tends to bombard us with an utterly unnatural amount of sensationalist tragedy) and maybe seriously should stop watching the news so much. I'm not suggesting becoming uninformed, but I think human beings weren't necessarily equipped to deal with bombardment of tragedy every day on their television and newspaper and Internet, especially in a sensationalist manner, and in every corner of the world. The world is no worse than it's ever been, it's just that we're smothered in an excess of information, and information that is not necessarily presented in the most neutral or objective manner.

But yes people experiencing grief, depression, or even OCD can replay terrible events in their heads over and over again, and it really has nothing to do with the event itself.

 

[cascadeco]

but I think human beings weren't necessarily equipped to deal with bombardment of tragedy every day on their television and newspaper and Internet, especially in a sensationalist manner, and in every corner of the world. The world is no worse than it's ever been, it's just that we're smothered in an excess of information, and information that is not necessarily presented in the most neutral or objective manner.

Absolutely agree with this.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I remember a thread some time ago where an NT asked NFs (to paraphrase), "What's the point of caring about something you really have no power to change?". That is far too literal though. When I am affected, when I care, it alerts to me the idea that something in general is wrong. It refines my view of what is good/bad and what to strive for & what to avoid. It's not about the specific tragedy, it's about what it stands for, what it implies about the world & humanity.

I'm not one to get emotional about news events, and I even avoid the news because it feels alarmist a lot of the time. However, the things I am exposed to do build up in my mind. I form an impression of the whole state of life, the world, the people, and it will weigh on me a bit. It can be a bit anxiety inducing, but more often than not it is actually motivating. It keeps my priorities straight. And I don't mean I suddenly appreciate the food I eat because people in Africa are starving; again, it's not that simplistic.

I do remember watching a documentary in HS about female genital mutilation ("circumcision") & about how women in the middle east are often blamed & shamed for being raped, etc. That struck me. It's because I wasn't really aware of such things, not that vividly. It didn't bring me to tears, but I felt the weight of it and it became a part of my view of the world. It's like making a big collage over time & every now & then you step back & see it as a whole, and it gives you a whole vibe. That whole vibe can hit you at once, giving you a sudden & clearer perspective as you see how it connects & overlaps.

 

[SilkRoad]

I think the world is worse than it's been, but that's another topic.

I do agree that the proliferation of information and the fact that we're constantly bombarded (and that the media manipulates us, or tries, in a positively Brave New World/1984 manner) is overwhelming and unnatural, and makes things worse - like I mentioned at the start of the thread.

 

[SilkRoad]

I do remember watching a documentary in HS about female genital mutilation ("circumcision") & about how women in the middle east are often blamed & shamed for being raped, etc. That struck me. It's because I wasn't really aware of such things, not that vividly. It didn't bring me to tears, but I felt the weight of it and it became a part of my view of the world. It's like making a big collage over time & every now & then you step back & see it as a whole, and it gives you a whole vibe. That whole vibe can hit you at once, giving you a sudden & clearer perspective as you see how it connects & overlaps.

I very much relate to this. The big picture/overall vibe, as you say, can be very overwhelming at times.

 

[Starry]

I do not think NFs have a monopoly on world compassion. Mother Theresa was ISFJ, Princess Diana may have been ISFP. I know SJs who won't stop talking about 9/11 ten years after it happened, and these are people who lost no relatives or friends there.

I reached a point where I think there has to a balance between compassion and allowing yourself to feel overwhelmed by the suffering in the world, because sitting in your bed crying about tragedies isn't helping anyone, it isn't doing anything to prevent it from happening again.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's important to have compassion, never lose it, but I think there's a possibility that people suffering from depression or other issues may project their own feelings or grief on to world tragedies or celebrity deaths, and they're really not able to stop crying because they've got a pre-existing issue (not necessarily chemical, but something as simple as still grieving over the death of a loved one) that they're venting those feelings through the tragedy.

If it truly hurts you that much, and it's not just depression or whatever, then do something about it.

This post was interesting to me...especially this last line. And I'm honestly asking you Marm (or anyone else) for your input. Like, what do you suggest doing? I really want to know. I mean, I hate this term...but I really do think there are people that are Empaths. Like, perhaps they are depressed as well...but the depression has stemmed from being an Empath in the first place (and no...I do not think this is type related). So what do you do? Get a thicker skin? Detach? Do drugs (prescription or otherwise?). Help me out here.

 

[Thalassa]

This post was interesting to me...especially this last line. And I'm honestly asking you Marm (or anyone else) for your input. Like, what do you suggest doing? I really want to know. I mean, I hate this term...but I really do think there are people that are Empaths. Like, perhaps they are depressed as well...but the depression has stemmed from being an Empath in the first place (and no...I do not think this is type related). So what do you do? Get a thicker skin? Detach? Do drugs (perscription or otherwise?). Help me out here.

I think if you're so depressed that you can't even function, that yes you need therapy and perhaps medication or simply a huge change of lifestyle.

Yes, you should detatch - which is both a mentally and spiritually mature thing to do, I don't think there's anything wrong or unhealthy about compassionate detatchment, in fact most of the world's religions teach it, and Eastern philosophy certainly does, which is something I would think would appeal to many NFs.

If you center yourself, then you'll be better equipped to actually alleviate suffering in small ways, or even do big things to make a difference in the world.

What's the point of being empathetic if you just stay in bed all day.

 

[Starry]

Yes, you should detatch - which is both a mentally and spiritually mature thing to do, I don't think there's anything wrong or unhealthy about compassionate detatchment, in fact most of the world's religions teach it, and Eastern philosophy certainly does, which is something I would think would appeal to many NFs.

If you center yourself, then you'll be better equipped to actually alleviate suffering in small ways, or even do big things to make a difference in the world.

Okay...this speaks to exactly what I have been thinking about/moving towards/working on. And it helps to have it said to me by someone else. I really appreciate that.

 

[Thalassa]

Okay...this speaks to exactly what I have been thinking about/moving towards/working on. And it helps to have it said to me by someone else. I really appreciate that.

Things that have really helped me: therapy (depression) and Taoism. But first I stopped watching the news and started reading it instead, and only read it moderately, not obsessively or all day long.

I also came to the conclusion that if I just help people in small ways whenever I can, that's far better than sitting around feeling bad that I can't do huge things to change the world.

In my case I think my abilities include doing practical things for people, like helping them in physical tangible ways when they are near me, and writing and speaking about things to bring it to the attention of others. I have accepted that it's not in me to be a revolutionary or even Oprah Winfrey.

There are so many ways to help other people: feeding them, giving them clothing, doing charity work, listening to them or giving support. It is my opinion that things that school shootings start with little things, with things that are going wrong on a personal, fundamental level.

 

[sciski]

I relate to the OP and it's probably why I don't keep up with the news as much as I should.

Haha, I even relate to Sparrow about the drama in cooking shows... if I see someone on TV crying, I IMMEDIATELY cry with them. It's annoying because I know that they're just manipulating me, but dammit, I'm still tearing up!

However, you can learn to 'shield' yourself from some of the emotions (really important for empaths), and also be practical by not searching out more information about the stories that impact you. It's just too easy to find information these days, and this can really fuel an obsession.

 

[Giggly]

I don't watch the news because it's always depressing. This often makes me feel out of the loop but that is the trade off. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Rail Tracer]

I watched the news and read it a lot.

I think I might just be desensitized. It might be sad, but these things just happen. And for some incidents, it happens all the time. It is sad that people died in a plane crash or a burning building, it is just all I can really do is relay my sympathies for the families affected.

If it was someone close that died or got hurt, I would definitely cry.

 

[Southern Kross]

I tend to feel sympathy when watching such things but its more of a detached sympathy. It is the difference between knowing I'm sad and feeling sad. I suppose this could sound cold but rarely does that stuff really get into my heart. I tend to think about it in more objective, matter-of-fact, intellectual terms. It doesn't necessarily mean I care less, it just doesn't upset me to hear about it.

Its like how my ISFJ Mum and I react differently depressing movies. She dislikes them (and attempts to avoid them) because they pull too much on her heartstrings and leave her feeling extremely dejected. Whereas I get caught up in the story and the emotions of it but afterwards I can separate myself from it and don't feel down or upset - I think about the story in rather pragmatic terms. In fact, I admit I rather enjoy depressing movies - they somehow feel more true.

I do remember watching a documentary in HS about female genital mutilation ("circumcision") & about how women in the middle east are often blamed & shamed for being raped, etc. That struck me. It's because I wasn't really aware of such things, not that vividly. It didn't bring me to tears, but I felt the weight of it and it became a part of my view of the world. It's like making a big collage over time & every now & then you step back & see it as a whole, and it gives you a whole vibe. That whole vibe can hit you at once, giving you a sudden & clearer perspective as you see how it connects & overlaps.

I SO GET THIS.

I can be watching a programme about something terrible and tragic on a huge scale but it has no marked effect on me, but then some moment, possibly even a nondescript one, makes it all hit home - then I feel it profoundly. Often I can't fully explain why, its so undefinable. Its just being struck by a moment of intense emotional truth. The delivery of it is so important. Too many news items sensationalise or go for the dramatic over the top stuff. I must admit watching the stuff on the famine in the Horn of Africa lately has managed to really hit an emotional chord with me. I think its because they have these women telling individual stories that were just so brutally tragic but expressed in such an understated way, as if it were just an everyday thing. After that, and pictures of vacant-eyed, skeletal infants, I confess even I got teary-eyed.

 

[Simi]

You know, the news affects me to a certain degree.

I do feel bad for the families and people affected by the terrible occurrences, but on the same hand it doesn't seem to affect me as badly as it does the rest of my family.
The rest of my family can't even watch the news anymore, it makes them feel so sick.
I remember I once mentioned trolling happening on a Memorial page for this girl my age who had been in a terrible railroad accident and died, and how about three thousand trolls were on her page posting terrible things.. My family worried sick about it for about three days, my sister even ended up writing an article about it.

I guess I just am in my own world most of the time, because it didn't affect me NEARLY as bad and I was the one who mentioned it in the first place.