[INFJ] Attracting INFJs?

[SilkRoad]

All I know is that I believe I'm a enneagram 4 and I don't see much of myself in the descriptions of the INFJs here...

I could be wrong - you're best placed to tell us about yourself - but if you're INFP, I think that they have a somewhat easier time letting go than INFJs do. When an INFJ gets fixated, they can get SERIOUSLY fixated.

I've read in a number of different threads here about FPs saying that if they want to get over something or someone, or whatever, they do a "shift of perspective" or they "just get over it" or something to that effect. That may not be universal, and of course it doesn't mean that INFPs don't also feel very intensely. But I suspect that moving on/letting go/not getting excessively fixated is probably somewhat easier for an FP than for an FJ.

 

[Fidelia]

I agree. INFPs tend to have to deal with their internal self, but it doesn't seem as dependent on outside input and further processing (ad nauseum) as it does with many INFJs. If it's resolved within themselves, they don't seem to need exchanges with the other person to put it at rest.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

This is pretty damn accurate, I'm afraid.

The weird thing about me, and possibly other INFJs...if I'm in a relationship with you, or intensely attracted to you (which, I should add in my case, only happens when I have gotten to know you fairly well, and only if I feel I am getting messages of attraction from you), my feelings are super-intense. However, I have that cool exterior which apparently doesn't look intense at all or else the intensity seems to be directed in other directions. And I tend to think that consciously or unconsciously I keep much of the intensity in check because I know that inside I'm kind of an obsessive stalker type, and I'd rather you didn't know that.

I can super-relate to that. It's like I try hard to mask my feeling because it's just too overwhelming, to a point I worried if this could scare people away. I mean we all know in the dating arena that it's not a good sign to show too much interests orelse it'll be easy for us to be taken for granted. So the key is take it slowly with our own emotions. The problem is that's very difficult for INFJs to acheive as our loneliness haunted us for too long and when the chance comes, we just want to take our emotions to the fullest (it has to do with our over-protected self and reserved nature.)

Silkroad's description really reflect my inner-struggle, or most INFJs, I believe.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

(I think I say goodbye okay as long as I feel some sense of closure or understand what's going on. Otherwise, I can get a little fixated.)

Amen to that. That's really important for us to move on. I really hate it when there are no clues for us why someone wanted to build a wall or try to establish a distance without know why.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I could be wrong - you're best placed to tell us about yourself - but if you're INFP, I think that they have a somewhat easier time letting go than INFJs do. When an INFJ gets fixated, they can get SERIOUSLY fixated.

I've read in a number of different threads here about FPs saying that if they want to get over something or someone, or whatever, they do a "shift of perspective" or they "just get over it" or something to that effect. That may not be universal, and of course it doesn't mean that INFPs don't also feel very intensely. But I suspect that moving on/letting go/not getting excessively fixated is probably somewhat easier for an FP than for an FJ.

oh, I disagree. I and the INFPs I know have a terrible time letting anything go. the deeper the emotion, the harder it is to uproot. If there is a trick to getting this done faster, let me know!

 

[the state i am in]

eh, most infjs are somewhat cautious when getting involved with someone else. this sounds more like an e2 move to me than the most common infj types, 4s and 9s, who don't seem like they're likely to be crying in a coffee shop bathroom about someone who hasn't even deeply connected with them. while on some level i can relate to violane's post, this disappointment in my own frustration at not getting what i want, a perfect ego-ideal, has never led to public emotional meltdowns. most sp and sx infjs i know are rather independent, and the so/sx ones are usually broadly connected enough that they rarely get excessively needy. Fs in general, however, always have higher relational needs, higher fuel and higher metabolism (which is different than extroversion's need for stimulation).

also, 3w4s are the epitome of dramatic. their natural tendency (tho this isn't to say that some 3w4s don't deal with this tendency, get it in check, and become great people) is to control the story and manipulate it without openly accepting that they at all contributed to something that didn't work, wasn't accurate, or was more or less full of shit. sure, they're charismatic, sometimes quite witty, and extremely skilled at self-presentation. but it often becomes this obsessive trap that prevents them from being real to anyone, least of all themselves.

for what it's worth, i've been involved with female 3w4 entps. it amazes me how mean-spirited they can be when at their worse when they reduce someone to something that is solely in their way and needlessly complicating their lives. whatever simplified story they feel attached to replaces the whole of reality, in turn distorting it around their own sense of personal entitlement. with them, however, the reward was still engaging and interesting enough to make it at least sometimes worth it.

i haven't ever felt this way with estp 3w4s, however. the interest usually wanes rather quickly when you realize you will never be able to truly share anything of value or truly see each other. and for me, their projection of sexual power that creates interest (at a broad but culturally sophisticated scale, as it is intended) doesn't really lead to anything worth sustaining but other conquests, games, and empty lifeless images. and those don't really have a valuable place in my world, but for some occasional but uninspired, unintegrated shadowy cravings.

 

[mrcockburn]

eh, most infjs are somewhat cautious when getting involved with someone else. this sounds more like an e2 move to me than the most common infj types, 4s and 9s, who don't seem like they're likely to be crying in a coffee shop bathroom about someone who hasn't even deeply connected with them. while on some level i can relate to violane's post, this disappointment in my own frustration at not getting what i want, a perfect ego-ideal, has never led to public emotional meltdowns. most sp and sx infjs i know are rather independent, and the so/sx ones are usually broadly connected enough that they rarely get excessively needy. Fs in general, however, always have higher relational needs, higher fuel and higher metabolism (which is different than extroversion's need for stimulation).

also, 3w4s are the epitome of dramatic. their natural tendency (tho this isn't to say that some 3w4s don't deal with this tendency, get it in check, and become great people) is to control the story and manipulate it without openly accepting that they at all contributed to something that didn't work, wasn't accurate, or was more or less full of shit. sure, they're charismatic, sometimes quite witty, and extremely skilled at self-presentation. but it often becomes this obsessive trap that prevents them from being real to anyone, least of all themselves.

for what it's worth, i've been involved with female 3w4 entps. it amazes me how mean-spirited they can be when at their worse when they reduce someone to something that is solely in their way and needlessly complicating their lives. whatever simplified story they feel attached to replaces the whole of reality, in turn distorting it around their own sense of personal entitlement. with them, however, the reward was still engaging and interesting enough to make it at least sometimes worth it.

i haven't ever felt this way with estp 3w4s, however. the interest usually wanes rather quickly when you realize you will never be able to truly share anything of value or truly see each other. and for me, their projection of sexual power that creates interest (at a broad but culturally sophisticated scale, as it is intended) doesn't really lead to anything worth sustaining but other conquests, games, and empty lifeless images. and those don't really have a valuable place in my world, but for some occasional but uninspired, unintegrated shadowy cravings.

But since I'm ESFP, I should be able to somewhat connect with INFJs, right?

We actually did connect pretty well - my Ni always craves outlets, and that was great.

I only ended things because he was so helpless, weak and physically inept, that it just turned me off. Weakness (and the fact that he always cried about it) is just something I'm not attracted to.

This sounds bad, but I'm not about to cowardly use the vague "thngs just didn't work out" line.

He was actually very shy, not possessive/jealous at all. A wee bit clingy, but easily controllable. Introverts are awesome at giving people space.

 

[Elfa]

I could be wrong - you're best placed to tell us about yourself - but if you're INFP, I think that they have a somewhat easier time letting go than INFJs do. When an INFJ gets fixated, they can get SERIOUSLY fixated.

I've read in a number of different threads here about FPs saying that if they want to get over something or someone, or whatever, they do a "shift of perspective" or they "just get over it" or something to that effect. That may not be universal, and of course it doesn't mean that INFPs don't also feel very intensely. But I suspect that moving on/letting go/not getting excessively fixated is probably somewhat easier for an FP than for an FJ.

I've only dated one person in my life, and that person is my boyfriend now, so I don't know exactly how I would react if our relationship ended... But I don't think I would act as intensely as the INFJs towards the other one.
The only examples I can use is about a few friends and my father's girlfriend... I had a some friends that used to make part of my life, that I used to care a lot about, but eventually our relationship vanished... We were just like strangers to each other... The thing with my father's girlfriend was a little more complicated, but in the end, I just felt a lot hurt about some stuff, never said it to her, and started treating her as a stranger. Internally, I may take LOTS of time thinking about the person, thinking about what may have gone wrong, feeling intensely (as INFPs and INFJs say they feel), maybe crying a lot alone in my room - and no one would notice. I feel a lot all by myself, but I let the person go easily. I don't know if that's the best way of dealing with this stuff, but but that's just the way I've been doing it. I don't know if I would do that if I ended a love relationship, but I guess I just would let the person go, I wouldn't say a thing to him, and then cry lots in my room - maybe nowadays I would talk to someone about it. .-. It's somewhat like fidelia said, I deal with it myself, the other person has nothing to do with it. Haha.

I agree. INFPs tend to have to deal with their internal self, but it doesn't seem as dependent on outside input and further processing (ad nauseum) as it does with many INFJs. If it's resolved within themselves, they don't seem to need exchanges with the other person to put it at rest.

 

[OrangeAppled]

oh, I disagree. I and the INFPs I know have a terrible time letting anything go. the deeper the emotion, the harder it is to uproot. If there is a trick to getting this done faster, let me know!

I know...I was like "what?" when I read that .

 

[Anew Leaf]

I agree. INFPs tend to have to deal with their internal self, but it doesn't seem as dependent on outside input and further processing (ad nauseum) as it does with many INFJs. If it's resolved within themselves, they don't seem to need exchanges with the other person to put it at rest.

In regards to closure, it depends on how things play out. If I get blindsided then I turn into Fe Saturned who must understand what the heck just happened.

In regards to us letting go easier. Its more along the lines of we hide it better. Such is the nature of Fi. It's part of why I try to take a break in between relationships. Make sure those small torches are snuffed out .

 

[SilkRoad]

Orangeappled, Nebbykoo, etc: Maybe it is more a case of not needing as much outside input to resolve things as an INFJ might. But I am pretty sure that I've read comments by INFPs, and certainly ENFPs, suggesting that by using something like a "shift in perspective" they can move on, not at the drop of a hat, but without the neurotic fixating and obsessing that can go on for weeks, months or even years and which some of us INFJs are prone to.

Based on my own experience of FPs, which is limited, I can't really comment. I've mentioned my friend here and there who I think is either INFP or a somewhat withdrawn ENFP, and she feels things with extreme intensity in the moment, but they don't seem to grieve or trouble her so much for extended periods of time. I think this has even caused problems between us sometimes because she'll make a very dramatic and sweeping statement about how she'll feel or how something is "always" or "forever", or a person is permanently out of her life - and I have tended to believe her - and a couple of weeks or months later they're back in her life, she's moved on to another boyfriend, or whatever.

Sorry, kinda digressing here. And I don't mean to make judgments over NFPs or anyone, just that this has been my definite impression from some of what I've read on this forum.

I'm also not particularly prone to making dramatic displays, though it has happened. Most people wouldn't know that I'm in emotional distress or having difficulty moving on; only if they ask me about it, or I'm desperate to vent to someone, or if you happen to be the person who caused me the emotional distress, and you approach me at the wrong time...

 

[Stanton Moore]

I think the difference is this: when as INFP pushes thing down, they push it far down, so it is hidden even from them. That way it looks like they resolved it but in fact they've simply deferred the problem for some future time, sometimes decades away. Extreme sensitivity at work here...

 

[SilkRoad]

Hm, yeah. I have trouble pushing things away...they tend to stay near the surface, or else surface repeatedly in dreams.

I only "deal with" things by the following: if another person is involved (and ain't that usually the case?), resolving things fully with them; or, if that's not possible, allowing a great deal of time and distance to elapse...and if I have to purely rely on the time/distance thing, there's probably going to be a lot of painful feelings in the interim.

Most INFJs, despite obvious variations as we're still all individuals, seem to agree that once we've moved on from a situation - properly, not just pushing it away - we've REALLY moved on. Like, to the extent that we can coldly say "that person is pretty much dead to me" and mean it. But it can take a lot of time and heartache to get there. (And usually, the person being dead to you is not the ideal way to resolve things...but sometimes it feels like the only option.)

From what you've said, perhaps INFPs can push things away (even from themselves) with more apparent ease, but full resolution of issues may be elusive for a very long time and might not be "complete" in the way that it can eventually be for an INFJ once they've gone through all that agonizing.

I have to apologise to the OP, I feel like this thread has kinda been hijacked and gone off topic.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

Most INFJs, despite obvious variations as we're still all individuals, seem to agree that once we've moved on from a situation - properly, not just pushing it away - we've REALLY moved on. Like, to the extent that we can coldly say "that person is pretty much dead to me" and mean it. But it can take a lot of time and heartache to get there. (And usually, the person being dead to you is not the ideal way to resolve things...but sometimes it feels like the only option.)

I think one of the reason why INFJs do this is because when we felt hurt, the feeling is truly intense and it can linger for a long time for recovery. Perhaps when we've come to conclusion that we're finally okay to live without them, through various kinds of defensive mechanism like detachment, we can finally get over with them (to a point that even remembering the past heartbreaking moments didn't feel hurtful anymore). Though to most people, they might seem us rather cold that way, though I thought it's quite justified end result.

 

[EJCC]

It's as if this thread was made for me! I LOL'd at the thread title, because I thought "Seriously? Someone else has this problem(/blessing)?" I am surrounded by INFJs -- at home, among friends, and in the workplace -- and it cracks me up because I often find myself thinking that whoever said INFJs were one of the rarest types must have been very confused.

I think they are attracted to people who have a wide variety of skills/interests that they don't. I don't know an STP that doesn't collect skills like nobody's business.

INFJs also are interested in figuring out what is beneath the surface of you. Because that isn't readily apparent with STPs, it makes them want to get to know you better.

This has been my experience.

Another reason I would add, is that INFJs are obsessors and worriers by nature, and they like to be around people who soothe their neuroses. I know that I do -- because I've been told by my ENFJ best friend that I exude certainty and confidence (probably due to Te dominance), and therefore can be a bit of a security blanket for my friends -- but I don't know if that's the case for you, being an ESFP.

The last thing most people would perceive me as is some sort of drama queen, but I think where my intensity can shock is that a) they just didn't realise I cared so much, and b) I can lay down the law with great clarity and even harshness. "Your behaviour is unacceptable; I have endured your nonsense in x,y and z manner for x number of years and can do so no more;" and so on. From any feedback I've had, this can make me look pretty terrifying. (If the person actually has behaved badly and I have been kind of "wronged", that can bring it home to them quite effectively, I hear...) However, I wonder if it mainly looks like some kind of martinet/judge. They're less likely to know that I go off and cry and obsess privately - and the obsessing can be extremely prolonged, sometimes. (And there are also situations where I've just avoided and disappeared, as sometimes I feel that's all I can do.) As Fidelia mentioned, major closure is required to short-circuit the obsessing - and even then it may continue a little bit, though that should mostly take care of it. That aspect really depends on the situation.

Speaking as someone who has seen this type of doorslam in action, and also experienced similar things from INFJs on a smaller scale, I'd say it's more frustrating than scary. I always end up wishing that the INFJ had told me sooner, because then I'd be able to fix the issue. The way the INFJ presents it, it's as if they -- and only they -- have made the decision as to whether things continue; "I have taken this long enough and therefore it is over. Deal with it." Which leaves me not just startled and hurt, but also resentful, because I have just been given a solution to a problem and then prevented from using the solution.

 

[mrcockburn]

Another reason I would add, is that INFJs are obsessors and worriers by nature, and they like to be around people who soothe their neuroses. I know that I do -- because I've been told by my ENFJ best friend that I exude certainty and confidence (probably due to Te dominance), and therefore can be a bit of a security blanket for my friends -- but I don't know if that's the case for you, being an ESFP.

They're always telling me that they admire my ambitiousness, determination, drive, focus, open-mindedness, intelligence, depth. (No LAWL'ing at the last two until you talk to me one-on-one. )

I'm always being told that I exude confidence and certainty. That I charge through life in a straight line knowing exactly where I'm going.

I attract an inordinate amount of ENTJs as well. It must be a Ni thing. [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION], in your case, it must be more of a case of opposites-attract admiration, given that you don't share a single function with INFJs.

 

[EJCC]

I'm always being told that I exude confidence and certainty. That I charge through life in a straight line knowing exactly where I'm going.

Same. Though not "charging" in my case. I don't think you could ever say that an ESTJ "charges through life" quite like an ESFP. But that's a pretty significant shared trait -- one that does a lot to explain why INFJs love us so much.

EJCC, in your case, it must be more of a case of opposites-attract admiration, given that you don't share a single function with INFJs.

I dunno -- our J manifests itself pretty similarly. Neither of us are terribly adventurous or prone towards risk-taking. Our priorities (except the ones relating to interpersonal relationships) are pretty much the same. I think an ESTP would be the most different, despite the shared Si/Fe.

But then again, I was raised by an INFJ, so I've stopped seeing them as mind-bogglingly different from me.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Orangeappled, Nebbykoo, etc: Maybe it is more a case of not needing as much outside input to resolve things as an INFJ might. But I am pretty sure that I've read comments by INFPs, and certainly ENFPs, suggesting that by using something like a "shift in perspective" they can move on, not at the drop of a hat, but without the neurotic fixating and obsessing that can go on for weeks, months or even years and which some of us INFJs are prone to.

Based on my own experience of FPs, which is limited, I can't really comment. I've mentioned my friend here and there who I think is either INFP or a somewhat withdrawn ENFP, and she feels things with extreme intensity in the moment, but they don't seem to grieve or trouble her so much for extended periods of time. I think this has even caused problems between us sometimes because she'll make a very dramatic and sweeping statement about how she'll feel or how something is "always" or "forever", or a person is permanently out of her life - and I have tended to believe her - and a couple of weeks or months later they're back in her life, she's moved on to another boyfriend, or whatever.

Sorry, kinda digressing here. And I don't mean to make judgments over NFPs or anyone, just that this has been my definite impression from some of what I've read on this forum.

I'm also not particularly prone to making dramatic displays, though it has happened. Most people wouldn't know that I'm in emotional distress or having difficulty moving on; only if they ask me about it, or I'm desperate to vent to someone, or if you happen to be the person who caused me the emotional distress, and you approach me at the wrong time...

Without harping on it too much, I'll just say that INFPs in general (can't speak for those fickle ENFPs + I always saw "perspective shifts" as N-dom territory) simply don't express things as openly. As you say, there may be an intense expression that bubbles up, & then nothing, but often there is still much below the surface. And yes, we can go into denial just to function, because when someone has hurt us, we don't want to give them that power, but in a way that makes the wound take much longer to heal. And yes, we tend to come to resolutions in our heads (probably more so than ENFPs, being Fi-dom), which causes problems when the relationship is not actually over, but still going.

I suppose I've just had the opposite impression though, that when INFJs reach the final straw they cut the cord, slam the door, whatever you want to call it, and then they move on. NFPs have a tendency to allow things to re-open, to remain in limbo, to rehash the same feeling much later, and that means closure is tough to reach.

 

[SilkRoad]

^I think it's true that when INFJs finally "move on", they really do...but it can take an extremely long time to get there, either in terms of tolerating too much in a bad situation/friendship/relationship, or in terms of still ruminating painfully over things especially if there's no closure and there are loose ends still. That certainly applies to me. In rare situations where there's been unfinished business, I've gone on having painful thoughts, dreams, etc for years at a time.

Possibly when some INFJs get to the point of "doorslam" or whatever (not something I resort to unless I feel I MUST, very rare), they have already reached the point where they can do the "this person is dead to me" thing. In my case that's probably more like the point where I want them out of my life so I can start to heal up, but it doesn't necessarily mean everything is done and dusted...in more cases I'll probably be feeling bad about it for weeks, months or years.

Hehe, I sound like I'm turning this into a "who gets over things slowest and obsesses about them the most, INFJs or INFPs?" contest. Sorry.