[MBTI General] Doing what you must...feeling bad about it

[Meek]

Also, CM's actions have made him toxic. Which, I'm not stating that his actions are the cause of his toxicity, just clarifying this so no one gets all pedantic on me.

 

[Ginkgo]

Wondering if you're assuming that I hate CM when I never said I do. In some aspects I respect him, in some I don't. Why are you asking me if he controls my mind when you clearly know the answer. What a derpy question, lol.

Actually I got the impression that you wanted to make swastika brain micro-chipped babies with him. But really who knows. Maybe you don't. Anything is possible in Jesus Christ, our Lord.

 

[Ginkgo]

Wondering if you're assuming that I hate CM when I never said I do. In some aspects I respect him, in some I don't. Why are you asking me if he controls my mind when you clearly know the answer. What a derpy question, lol.

I can't believe you told me that I'm projecting and then discouraged me from making armchair pseudo-psychoanalysis. That's very hypocritical.

 

[Meek]

I can't believe you told me that I'm projecting and then discouraged me from making armchair pseudo-psychoanalysis. That's very hypocritical.

Because I said you're projecting when you are?

 

[Ginkgo]

Because I said you're projecting when you are?

It's hypocritical, regardless of whether I am or not.

You don't know anything about me. Do you also claim to be a fortune teller?

 

[Meek]

It's hypocritical, regardless of whether I am or not.

You don't know anything about me. Do you also claim to be a fortune teller?

I don't need to know anything about you. You have trolled me before which gives me the right to make claim that anything you say shouldn't even be taken seriously- Ever, at least by me. Trolling is projecting of your emotions in a sneaky manner, to get a reaction to make yourself feel better. All I needed was observation and I knew enough about you. Also, I think you're one of the toxic people who need to get out of my dirt, you're poisoning my grass!

 

[Ginkgo]

I don't need to know anything about you. You have trolled me before which gives me the right to make claim that anything you say shouldn't even be taken seriously- Ever, at least by me. Trolling is projecting of your emotions in a sneaky manner, to get a reaction to make yourself feel better. All I needed was observation and I knew enough about you. Also, I think you're one of the toxic people who need to get out of my dirt, you're poisoning my grass!

Nah.

 

[Meek]

This is my idea of a toxic person:

 

[Ginkgo]

This is my idea of a toxic person:

Who? The black guy?

 

[Meek]

A result of mr. toomey becoming toxic would be his dad:

 

[wolfy]

I've never really understood boundaries. Boundaries to what? I understand the need to block people that are a pain in the ass from at least my psyche. Is that what you guys are talking about?

 

[Meek]

I've never really understood boundaries. Boundaries to what? I understand the need to block people that are a pain in the ass from at least my psyche. Is that what you guys are talking about?

Well, my take on it would be not letting someone cross my emotional boundaries.

 

[wolfy]

Well, my take on it would be not letting someone cross my emotional boundaries.

I see. Personally, I felt I was too good at that aspect of it and had to work in the other direction. Balance is a hard thing.

 

[SilkRoad]

Thanks to those who've responded on topic, it was helpful. Would one of the mods care to split the other stuff, which I didn't find very interesting, into a separate thread?

 

[SilkRoad]

...I do know my self-radar is broken. I realize that I will always feel guilt if I don't simply put my own desires on the back burner and just do what someone else seems to want, as long as it isn't blatantly selfish on their part. Most requests do seem to have SOME level of legitimacy, which is why I have trouble saying now.

I guess one thing that helped was applying my sense of "fairness" to include myself rather than just everyone else. They are all people who should be respected, but I am also a person just like them -- so why should I constantly disrespect my own feelings and needs?

...

I remember when I was in therapy and my therapist spent some time talking about the "inner child." It might seem like a cliche, but I believe in the right context it can be a useful metaphor. She said to me, "You have raised children and you know how to parent them, you're good at nurturing and affirming them while being firm and challenging them... so why can't you look at yourself like that and provide the same example and standards to yourself? Inside you feel like a lost, abandoned, unheard child. Why not parent yourself in the same way you know works for your kids?" Using that model, I tried to see myself as another person, another child, and then took the liberty of applying the same rules to myself that I applied to others in terms of what sorts of behavior was respectful and decent and healthy, vs not.
...

EDIT: It sounds to me that you're not really "disturbed" by it all -- that on some level you do believe setting boundaries is good. It's just more an intellectual uncertainty, since there's no way to be "sure" about it?

I wonder if a bit like you I have a somewhat "broken" "guilt radar". I do believe that being a giving, forgiving person is important and I don't want to change that. But I'm getting better at noticing when I'm feeling like "oh, was that selfish? Oh, is this really the right thing to do?" when I've done something perfectly normal and healthy and self-protective. So then I can tell myself "you know what...you do need to look after yourself some of the time...and so-and-so will be fine without you on this occasion."

I also agree that it can help to try to step back and look at yourself almost like you're a separate person who needs looking after as well. It puts things into perspective.

I do believe setting boundaries is good and necessary, it's just that life has sometimes thrown me into situations where it's hard to know what to do, you end up in emotional and intellectual gray areas. And I probably say this in every thread, but finding a balance is such a challenge.

I think in the end it's about trying to be honest with yourself. Even if you don't want to hurt someone else, and it's hard to say 'No' or know that you're hurting someone elses' feelings or inconveniencing someone by staying true to yourself and what YOU are feeling, in the end I am not sure it's fair, or is doing them many favors in the long run, to go through the motions of either helping them or keeping them in your life if YOU are not wholly into it or, in the end, wanting to give the relationship and the person what they truly need/deserve.

It's ok to not desire to have everyone in your life who might want to be in yours, even though it's obviously hard and hurts to let those other people down. Sometimes things don't sync up and I think it's important to just try to listen to yourself -- to those feelings that pop up that really matter/speak to you -- and try to maintain a balance of taking care of your own needs/self, while also accounting for the other person. The latter is something I don't think FJ's have a big problem with -it's the former.. learning to be honest with ourselves and recognizing our own feelings/needs, and being honest with the fact that sometimes we don't want to do something, and don't want to help someone out, and don't in fact want someone in our life... that is the hard part.

Good point, it may sometimes feel wrong or unfair to walk away from or reduce the influence of someone who you feel is draining you or who you don't want in your life any more. But it would also be wrong to hang around sort of pretending to still be their friend when your heart isn't in it. I'm slowly learning that as long as it doesn't go against my own principles of morality and real "right and wrong", it can be ok to just do something because YOU feel that it is the right thing for YOU to do to preserve your own health and happiness, as much as possible. And I'm not always required to give an explanation, either.

I think what would be a real cause for concern would be if I were losing friends left right and centre, or having lots of distanced and cold relationships with others, or constantly dropping people because they looked at me the wrong way, or whatever. But I have a surprising number of friendships which have endured for five, ten, fifteen or even twenty years, and my loyalty is something that others have often commented on. That's reassuring. Just because I've occasionally had to walk away from something doesn't change the fact that I'm generally loyal and a good friend. And the fact that I agonize about things is kind of a good indication in itself, too.

I know exactly what you meant here. I struggle with this all the time--and the questioning part as well.

I think the biggest challenge for most INFJs is that we tend to prioritize the welfare for others instead of ourselves. For me, it sorts of become my motivation to make things better, to change people's attitude especially if they're in need of help or struggles.

Ironicaly, when I felt overwhelmed about social responsibilities, that's when I start to detach, and not wanting to let them know the reason behind this because I don't want them to feel guity. I've always felt that I've been contibuting more than I could, and by that I raise the bar of expectation from others especially when it comes to their sensitivity. Of course, things start to fall apart when I clash with them.

Perhaps that's why I often need my own private space to recharge, and most often that's a sign of telling myself not to be over-committed into giving out more than I could offer.

Yeah, I've been feeling the need to really withdraw lately - not in a depressive sort of way, but just feeling like I have very little energy for other people, even people who I have really good relationships with. That's a bit of a warning sign...

 

[wolfy]

How do you deal with this? Do you often question if you're being selfish, or if you're doing the right thing?

I don't really question it. To be honest, I really had a problem stopping saying no and cutting people out. The thing with people is I hate it when things are vague and you can't put your finger on what to do.

I questioned whether I was open enough, which is the same thing I suppose.

 

[SilkRoad]

I don't really question it. To be honest, I really had a problem stopping saying no and cutting people out. The thing with people is I hate it when things are vague and you can't put your finger on what to do.

I questioned whether I was open enough, which is the same thing I suppose.

Yes, similar questions, I think.

Really, I do think a good indication is if you can look honestly at your life and see if in general you have more wins than fails on the human interpersonal relationships side of things. If you do, you're probably doing a lot of things or most things right. If not...you might need to take a hard look at your own behaviour and/or at the type of people you are attracting into your life.

And yes, vague and ambiguous situations are so hard to deal with, but also hard to avoid in many cases. Sometimes I wish everyone could be 100% straightforward and transparent with each other, but I suppose that could bring its own problems

EDIT: I've heard that cutting people out can even become "refreshing". I'm not sure I've quite reached that stage yet. Though I can think of one person fairly recently...well, I didn't really cut them out, I just told them that things had to change ("you're really confused, and I can't listen to you talk about your problems any more") and after that they kind of semi-cut me out...I let them drift away, more. It wasn't a "doorslam" situation. But in a way that was refreshing, I have to admit. It was a bad situation I had to get out of. I have some regrets over the whole thing, but the main one is probably that I didn't take that kind of action sooner, before various kinds of damage were inflicted on me...