[INFJ] INFJ and sorrow

[gandalf]

Hi,

I am an INTj guy (30 years old) and I had a very interesting mail exchange with a girl on a web-dating site. The girl is most probably INFJ. After three weeks of very deep NT/NF-style discussion, the next thing we were supposed to do was to agree about a live date. She was supposed to have extremely busy ten days of studying after which we were to meet.

However, after the study project, she left me a message with endless apologies for what she was going to do... She told me that someone close to her (not family member but close to family) had died and she needed time. Therefore, she would back off "for now". Reading between her lines, it was rather easy to get impression that she wasn't saying good by. I could rather imagine that she wanted give me a fair chance to go should I want to.

So, when it comes to my world of thoughts, I dare to say that I can relate thoughts of INFJ quite well. Simply put, my T is not too strong and I can imagine what it might be to consider feelings the way I consider information. Believe me or not, but I think I have a clue.

Based on our intensive mailing, I have absolutely no reason to doubt her. Off course, you never know, but I have no reason to question her honesty and sincerety in this.

My question to any INFJs here: Assuming she is what she claims to be, what could be a reasonable grieving time in case like this? In what time should I draw conclusion that she is not coming back?

It's been 7 weeks now since she wrote me last time and due to the online dating site we use, I have no way even to write to her before she makes initiative to return.

Any thoughts would by highly appreciated...

 

[Crescent Fresh]

My advice would be just give up on her.

I'd done similar thing in the past (when I was in High School). Back then, I was romantically involved with a guy (had a year relationship, yeah I know this sound insane). We did endless online chat, web cam, phone but until the day I'm supposed to meet up with him (he lives few hundred miles away from me, across the boder), I just suddenly had a panic attack and thought the stress of having a real commitment seems too overwhelming for me (I was 17 back then). In between, I suddenly had cast many doubts not toward him, but toward myself.

I did arrive in the place where we're supposed to meet up, but was within a great distance. I saw him unpatiencely checking his watch and I really did have an urge to meet him, but I backed down.

That's the only online relationship I've ever had, and eventually I did find a boyfriend in school. Though uptill this date I still felt sorry for him, I suppose it has to do with maturity (he was 4 years older back then).

I'm sorry to hear this as I would like to think her actions weren't intentional, though just wanted to share it did happen to me as well.

 

[gandalf]

Thanks for your answer which in it's insightfulness actually suggests that I am asking totally wrong a question!

There is one refinement I want to make just for the case it mattered... The girl sent her latest message at mid-May and, to be literal, instead of saying good by, she wished me good "beginning of summer" and the period of time she was supposed to be away was "at least for a while". I am just mentioning this because those expressions sound as if she is not acting unconsciously. I mean, she would truly be lying to me if this was about panicing. I wonder if I am making any sense...

Would that bit of information affect your suggestion in any direction?

 

[Crescent Fresh]

Thanks for your answer which in it's insightfulness actually suggests that I am asking totally wrong a question!

There is one refinement I want to make just for the case it mattered... The girl sent her latest message at mid-May and, to be literal, instead of saying good by, she wished me good "beginning of summer" and the period of time she was supposed to be away was "at least for a while". I am just mentioning this because those expressions sound as if she is not acting unconsciously. I mean, she would truly be lying to me if this was about panicing. I wonder if I am making any sense...

Would that bit of information affect your suggestion in any direction?

It's really difficult for me to put in a concrete conclusion based on the limited background information you had provided. And that fact that she might not be 100% INFJ (since this is just based on your assumption) makes this case even more difficult to depict.

Though one common trait for INJFs which I've been noticing is that (and I could be wrong because I wouldn't consider myself as MBTI expert), when we really feel there's a need of space, or detachment, that period can last quite long, not just in terms of a few days. Perhaps there are things which she wanted to prioritize first before keeping in touch with you?

Sorry that I got totally misinterpreted, and I would just recommend that you can still write her an Email just to show that you still care about her? However, you should write it in a way that she knows your purpose is not an attempt to keep back in track with you, but to show her that you appreciate the deep bond of connection between the two of you.

I think that might help as I think most INFJs still crave on human connections even if they felt like to detach from others momentarily.

 

[cascadeco]

My question to any INFJs here: Assuming she is what she claims to be, what could be a reasonable grieving time in case like this? In what time should I draw conclusion that she is not coming back?

It's been 7 weeks now since she wrote me last time and due to the online dating site we use, I have no way even to write to her before she makes initiative to return.

Any thoughts would by highly appreciated...

As for 'reasonable grieving time', I don't think any of us could really know.

Based on what you said, like you, I don't have any reason to think she meant to close things off forever. Prior to the death of the close friend, she was busy, and probably stressed, but was going to meet you and things were going well, but the death probably pushed her over the edge and she realized she needed time to sort through eveything and wasn't prepared for starting a relationship until she sorted through everything. I doubt she intended to cut you off forever; timing just threw a wrench in things.

But, since you say you have no ability to send an email/initiate contact, I'm not sure what you could actually DO? Which is a shame, because if you could actually email her, I'd definitely suggest to just send her a quick note to check in and see how she's doing, and that you were thinking of her, which might pull her out of her head.

But if you can't do that... ?? Then honestly I'd just suggest trying to meet other people, and then if in the future she happens to re-initiate, you can go from there.

I really doubt she was lying to you though. Life happened, she was stressed and there was a death, she needed time, and by this point she may feel silly contacting you again after this much time.

 

[iwakar]

Obviously this is a huge leap because I don't know her or you really, but I'd say more than 4 weeks means she's moved on for whatever reason. Maybe she didn't plan to, maybe she was determined to come back --who knows? But after 7 weeks, life's current has probably carried her away for one reason or another. I don't suggest waiting, but the reality is if you want to wait, you're going to wait eh? Best of luck to you.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Hi,

I am an INTj guy (30 years old) and I had a very interesting mail exchange with a girl on a web-dating site. The girl is most probably INFJ. After three weeks of very deep NT/NF-style discussion, the next thing we were supposed to do was to agree about a live date. She was supposed to have extremely busy ten days of studying after which we were to meet.

However, after the study project, she left me a message with endless apologies for what she was going to do... She told me that someone close to her (not family member but close to family) had died and she needed time. Therefore, she would back off "for now". Reading between her lines, it was rather easy to get impression that she wasn't saying good by. I could rather imagine that she wanted give me a fair chance to go should I want to.

So, when it comes to my world of thoughts, I dare to say that I can relate thoughts of INFJ quite well. Simply put, my T is not too strong and I can imagine what it might be to consider feelings the way I consider information. Believe me or not, but I think I have a clue.

Based on our intensive mailing, I have absolutely no reason to doubt her. Off course, you never know, but I have no reason to question her honesty and sincerety in this.

My question to any INFJs here: Assuming she is what she claims to be, what could be a reasonable grieving time in case like this? In what time should I draw conclusion that she is not coming back?

It's been 7 weeks now since she wrote me last time and due to the online dating site we use, I have no way even to write to her before she makes initiative to return.

Any thoughts would by highly appreciated...

I suggest moving on as well. I don't think she meant any harm to you, but circumstances have changed for her and she isn't able to currently pursue anything with you now.

It is unfortunate that you can't contact her yourself to just "say hi".

I would hate to see you put your dating life on hold because of this. If she does contact you in the future, you can decide then what to do going forward. For now, I suggest pursuing someone else that you "meet" on your dating site.

Good luck! You sound like a nice, thoughtful guy. I am sure there will be someone special who will appreciate you!

 

[gandalf]

Thanks for everyone for sharing your thoughts!

I definitely would have contacted her already but it's not email but the web page system we used for messaging. We hadn't revealed any contact information before this "incident" happened and thus, I have absolutely no way to contact her (not even sending a message hoping she would read it) unless she actively "calls" me to. She inactivated her profile immediately, giving me no chance to answer. That was rude but I kind of understand her assumed need totally push me away for a while. I wouldn't blame her for that. The only thing I know is that her profile still exists - she didn't delete it but she is not reachable by anyone - so she could return after all.

Perhaps the only reason that is still giving me hope regarding her is that she told me earlier that she would move to a new apartment in beginning of July. She also told me that the new apartment would be a dream-come-true for her. Based on what I have read about INFJs, I wouldn't be surprised if moving had extend her time for a week or so. Or perhaps I am just day-dreaming...

I do have studied the MBTI to some extent, as a hobby. I know it well enough to give a student organization sessions about it but I am definitely not an expert either. Nevertheless, what she wrote me (and she wrote a lot) makes me quite confident of my suspection that she is rather clear INFJ (not extreme though)...

And why am I unwilling to let go of her then... Well, the connection of thoughts we had was something totally new to me. It would be very unlikely to meet someone else even close to her in that sense, and if I go on trying someone else, I might miss her attempt to get back in business. Well, I guess that's what life is...

 

[Crescent Fresh]

For some reasons, based on your posts, I really felt you seem to be closer to INTP or INFP to me...

 

[gandalf]

That's very interesting a notion

Most tests on the internet (I have taken many and multiple times) claim me to be around 66 % INT and my J-P to be just slightly on J side. I contemplate and self-reflect a lot, probably a lot more than an average INTJ. Also, when reading variuos MBTI descriptions (not taking tests but just reading), I usually find myself equally strong J and P. All that said, I actually take your comment as a compliment

About being F, then...Once again, when reading INTJ stuff, I totally understand what they are about and can very much relate to them. I think INTJ is what I most profoundly am. But then again, often I can't help being a bit annoyed by that certain arrogance that I think is often somewhat exaggerated in that context. I often find myself emphatizing possible F-readers.

As far as I know, the MBTI is about preferences only. It says how you are likely to act or think but it gives no opinion of whether you are any good at doing that. The stronger the preference, the more you use the preferred option, and the less you use the other, the less you let it develop. You may, however, in certain conditions or when you grow older, learn to use "the other side" as well, even if it is weak compared to the preference. So, as a conclusion, I do wonder if I actually am an INTx with my feeling side somewhat affected to develop "exceptionally" by the environment in which I have grown up. I really don't know, but I am not surprised by your comment.

As I said, the INTJ side of me is still strong. I can be very decisive, I just end up being the leader in many hobby-related situations even though I am not actively nor intentionally after such positions, I can say things that I know will hurt people with no regret or uncertainty in my voice or on my face when I think I have a good reason to do so (critique, as INTJs call it), I may temporarily appear very extroverted when the situation calls it even though I definitely am quite strongly introverted, etc.

 

[Anew Leaf]

That's very interesting a notion

Most tests on the internet (I have taken many and multiple times) claim me to be around 66 % INT and my J-P to be just slightly on J side. I contemplate and self-reflect a lot, probably a lot more than an average INTJ. Also, when reading variuos MBTI descriptions (not taking tests but just reading), I usually find myself equally strong J and P.

About being F, then...Once again, when reading INTJ stuff, I totally understand what they are about and can very much relate to them. I think INTJ is what I most profoundly am. But then again, often I can't help being a bit annoyed by that certain arrogance that I think is often somewhat exaggerated in that context. I'd often find myself emphatizing possible F-readers.

As far as I know, the MBTI is about preferences only. It says how you are likely to act or think but it gives no opinion of whether you are any good at doing that. The stronger the preference, the more you use the preferred option, and the less you use the other, the less you let it develop. You may, however, in certain conditions or when you grow older, learn to use "the other side" as well, even if it is weak compared to the preference. So, as a conclusion, I do wonder if I actually am and INTx with my feeling side somewhat affected to develop "exceptionally" by the environment in which I have grown up. I really don't know, but I am not surprised by your comment.

As I said, the INTJ side of me is still strong. I can be very decisive, I just end up being the leader in many hobby-related situations even though I am not actively nor intentionally after such positions, I can say things that I know will hurt people with no regret or uncertainty in my voice or on my face when I think I have a good reason to do so (critique, as INTJs call it) etc.

You would probably benefit from exploring the cognitive functions as they pertain to both the INTJ and INTP types. They are pretty different when you break down how each type thinks and views the world.

 

[gandalf]

You would probably benefit from exploring the cognitive functions as they pertain to both the INTJ and INTP types. They are pretty different when you break down how each type thinks and views the world.

May I ask you to be a bit more specific? I have self-studied the MBTI and especially "my types" quite a lot though as a hobby only. I wonder if you are suggesting me some new point of view into those studies.

 

[Anew Leaf]

May I ask you to be a bit more specific? I have self-studied the MBTI and especially "my types" quite a lot though as a hobby only. I wonder if you are suggesting me some new point of view into those studies.

I am fairly new to this stuff myself.

I am sure someone else will jump in with more in depth data... but I will toss a couple preliminary things at you from wikipedia.

INTJ:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTJ

Drawing upon Jungian theory, Isabel Myers proposed that for each personality type, the cognitive functions (sensing, intuition, thinking, and feeling) form a hierarchy. This hierarchy represents the person's so-called default pattern of behavior.

The Dominant function is the personality type's preferred role, the one they feel most comfortable with. The secondary Auxiliary function serves to support and expand on the Dominant function. If the Dominant is an information gathering function (sensing or intuition), the Auxiliary is a decision making function (thinking or feeling), and vice versa. The Tertiary function is less developed than the Dominant and Auxiliary, but it matures over time, rounding out the person's abilities. The Inferior function is the personality type's Achilles' heel. This is the function they are least comfortable with. Like the Tertiary, the Inferior function strengthens with maturity.[17]

Jung and Myers considered the attitude of the Auxiliary, Tertiary, and Inferior functions to be the opposite of the Dominant. In this interpretation, if the Dominant function is extraverted, then the other three are introverted, and vice versa. However, many modern practitioners hold that the attitude of the Tertiary function is the same as the Dominant.[7] Using the more modern interpretation, the cognitive functions of the INTJ are as follows:[17]

Dominant: Introverted intuition (Ni)
Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths. [18]
Auxiliary: Extraverted thinking (Te)
Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence. [19]
Tertiary: Introverted feeling (Fi)
Fi filters information based on interpretations of worth, forming judgments according to criteria that are often intangible. Fi constantly balances an internal set of values such as harmony and authenticity. Attuned to subtle distinctions, Fi innately senses what is true and what is false in a situation. [20]
Inferior: Extraverted sensing (Se)
Se focuses on the experiences and sensations of the immediate, physical world. With an acute awareness of the present surroundings, it brings relevant facts and details to the forefront and may lead to spontaneous action.

INTP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTP

Drawing upon Jungian theory, Isabel Myers proposed that for each personality type, the cognitive functions (sensing, intuition, thinking, and feeling) form a hierarchy. This hierarchy represents the person's so-called default pattern of behavior.

The Dominant function is the personality type's preferred role, the one they feel most comfortable with. The secondary Auxiliary function serves to support and expand on the Dominant function. If the Dominant is an information gathering function (sensing or intuition), the Auxiliary is a decision making function (thinking or feeling), and vice versa. The Tertiary function is less developed than the Dominant and Auxiliary, but it matures over time, rounding out the person's abilities. The Inferior function is the personality type's Achilles' heel. This is the function they are least comfortable with. Like the Tertiary, the Inferior function strengthens with maturity.[11]

Jung and Myers considered the attitude of the Auxiliary, Tertiary, and Inferior functions to be the opposite of the Dominant. In this interpretation, if the Dominant function is extraverted, then the other three are introverted, and vice versa. However, many modern practitioners hold that the attitude of the Tertiary function is the same as the Dominant.[6] Using the more modern interpretation, the cognitive functions of the INTP are as follows:
[edit]
Dominant: Introverted thinking (Ti)

Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[12] Ti is calm, articulate, and aware of the forces that bind reality together. As introverted Thinkers, INTPs spend the majority of their time and energy ordering the interior, logical world of principles and generalizations in an effort to understand.

[edit] Auxiliary: Extraverted intuition (Ne)

Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[13] Ne gives INTPs a grasp of the patterns of the world around them. They use their intuition to amalgamate empirical data into coherent pictures, from which they can derive universal principles. INTPs frequently puzzle over a problem for hours on end, until the answer suddenly crystallizes in a flash of insight.

[edit] Tertiary: Introverted sensing (Si)

Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future.[14] Si gives INTPs the potential for keen observation. They use this function to gather empirical data, use physical tools, perceive physical relationships, and support their internal logic with a rich sense of space.

[edit] Inferior: Extraverted feeling (Fe)

Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.[15] Fe drives the INTP to desire harmony in community. At their most relaxed, INTPs can be charming and outgoing among friends, or when they have a clearly defined role in the group. When under stress, however, INTPs can feel disconnected from the people around them, unable to use their extraverted Feeling to reach out to others. As their inferior function, Feeling can be a weak point; when threatened they will hide behind a wall of stoic logic. This can lead them to bottle up their emotions to preserve reason and harmony; but a failure to deal with these concealed emotions can lead to inappropriate outbursts.

 

[gandalf]

That was nothing new to me, but thanks for trying And see, that's my INTJ side being very sincere...

Here are the two descriptions that I have thought about the most:
http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ.html
http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html

 

[Anew Leaf]

That was nothing new to me, but thanks for trying And see, that's my INTJ side being very sincere...

Here are the two descriptions that I have thought about the most:
http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ.html
http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html

Oh, I usually find INTJs to be very sincere. Whether they are nice while being sincere, that is another thing.

 

[gandalf]

Oh, I usually find INTJs to be very sincere. Whether they are nice while being sincere, that is another thing.

Hmm... I usually find being sincere AND nice simultaneously requiring a certain level of concentration on my words

 

[Santosha]

Here is my sweeping assumption: She got freaked out by meeting up in person. She told you she would do it, but when it came down to doing it she pansied out. Ya, I know.. it's mean to think the worst.. but I just see it happen with SO many people on dating sites! Ofcourse she could have something else thats come up.. and she might be mourning, but 7 weeks is quite some time. Just to send a message or something? Why delete her account? I think its weird. Ofcourse anythings possible. I wouldn't wait for another second though.. life is short. If you want an active dating life I'd jump back in and get someone else to date. When I've met people online.. I've tried to never drag it out too long. THe sooner you meet up the better.. then you can quickly access in-person compatibility before dragging it out for weeks and building your hopes up. Good luck!