[Fi] Fi + Conflict Discussion (All Welcome, BBYB*)

[Anew Leaf]

*Bring By Your Bunny.

So the thread that Janea started on dating INFJs got me thinking about how I deal (or not deal) with conflict.

I am curious what other's experiences are, and if there are ways to combat the natural tendency to avoid conflict with others.

For myself, when I am in relationships or friendships or just work interactions... I find myself not speaking up when something bothers me right away.

My reasoning on this:

• I don't want to make ant hills into the Andes.
• Maybe I am feeling "off" on a particular day and therefore I don't feel I can trust being reasonable.
• I am not sure if it's worth while to bring up.

And I think this is ok to do if the irritation is a minor one. However, it certainly sets a pattern up where when the irritation is bigger... I have created a habit within myself of not speaking up... and therefore I don't. So perhaps I *should* make more of an effort to speak up on smaller issues in order to prepare myself better for the bigger ones.

Is the solution to just bring things up more often? In my head I "try" this idea on and I feel immediately like I will morph into some incessant whiner. "Why are you sitting so far away from me?" "Why are you sitting so close to me?" "Why did you eat garlic pasta if you want to kiss me?" "Why is it so cold in here?!" "Why am I SOOO hot?!" etc.

Please share your own experiences, thoughts, comments, or pictures of adorable bunnies.

 

[chickpea]

my reasons for avoiding conflict are really similar to yours, plus depending on the person i don't want to be seen as mean or uptight or overdramatic. i hold it in way too much, and will be really mad at people and they'll have no idea why, even though i usually try to forget about it or get over it. it's unhelpful though, because holding all the problems in and letting them go unsettled makes it so that when i do actually initiate conflict, i explode and feelings from unrelated things i've been trying to ignore end up coming out too, and i can get scary.

 

[entropie]

Well true thing is, when you woman are stressed out you do say all those things nevertheless. And there is no way on Earth to tell a woman that she just is being whiny, without having your head choped in the process.
So you gotta decide if you put up with that as a man. It's how you like it, I think I am more of the "being liked to tortured guy". All these german sodomy pictures on the internet must have a meaning.

Jokes aside: if things bug you, you have to say it and you have to live with the consequences of wanting what is good for you that is part of growing up. Most woman I know from experience tend to put up with every shit their partner does in fear of appearing whiny or in fear of loosing him and being alone. Thats definitly the wrong way and will always lead to more pain.

 

[INTPness]

I thought you were going to give examples of big issues that are hard to work through. With little issues like that, it's probably in "how you say it". If you have that whiny voice and you're like, "It's hoooooottt in here. This restaurant never runs their A/C and the food here is terrible anyways. Why do we come to this place. Plus it's dirty in here." People that talk like that aggravate the crud out of me. Cuz it's never-ending complaints. Something is ALWAYS wrong. But, if you say, "Man, it's kinda toasty in here. I'm going to ask the waitress if she can turn that ceiling fan on. There we go, much better!" Or maybe we can go eat outside on the patio where it's cooler. It's like, solve the problem and then we won't have to complain anymore! Instead of just whining and not doing anything about it.

Why are you sitting so far away from me? "Oh, well in that case, I'll come closer!" No big deal at all. Why are you sitting so close? "What do I stink or something?" No big deal at all. If anything, it would sound humorous and playful. Why did you eat garlic if you want to kiss me? "I'm going to kiss you anyways. Just watch!" Again, no big deal - your question actually sounds flirtatious, not whiny at all.

I think holding these things back is just the nature of the introvert. 75% of stuff we think goes unsaid. But, a big chunk of that 75% wouldn't be bad to say at all - it might even be funny.

 

[Anew Leaf]

my reasons for avoiding conflict are really similar to yours, plus depending on the person i don't want to be seen as mean or uptight or overdramatic. i hold it in way too much, and will be really mad at people and they'll have no idea why, even though i usually try to forget about it or get over it. it's unhelpful though, because holding all the problems in and letting them go unsettled makes it so that when i do actually initiate conflict, i explode and feelings from unrelated things i've been trying to ignore end up coming out too, and i can get scary.

Some of it too is that it is so much easier for me to say "no" to myself, than to someone else.

It's kind of frustrating for me though. Thinking deeper I think part of it is that Fi is internal and it is something I came up with inside my head. I think I am right, and I dislike externalizing it and then being told that I am wrong. It's not like Ti who has a ledger filled with notes on why he or she is correct, mine is more of a fluid gut feeling. So if someone comes back at me with "you're being ridiculous" or "that makes no sense" etc... then I feel even more irritated, and frustrated, haha.

Maybe I just need a bigger Fibackbone!

 

[Anew Leaf]

I thought you were going to give examples of big issues that are hard to work through. With little issues like that, it's probably in "how you say it". If you have that whiny voice and you're like, "It's hoooooottt in here. This restaurant never runs their A/C and the food here is terrible anyways. Why do we come to this place. Plus it's dirty in here." People that talk like that aggravate the crud out of me. Cuz it's never-ending complaints. Something is ALWAYS wrong. But, if you say, "Man, it's kinda toasty in here. I'm going to ask the waitress if she can turn that ceiling fan on. There we go, much better!" Or maybe we can go eat outside on the patio where it's cooler. It's like, solve the problem and then we won't have to complain anymore! Instead of just whining and not doing anything about it.

Why are you sitting so far away from me? "Oh, well in that case, I'll come closer!" No big deal at all. Why are you sitting so close? "What do I stink or something?" No big deal at all. If anything, it would sound humorous and playful. Why did you eat garlic if you want to kiss me? "I'm going to kiss you anyways. Just watch!" Again, no big deal - your question actually sounds flirtatious, not whiny at all.

I think holding these things back is just the nature of the introvert. 75% of stuff we think goes unsaid. But, a big chunk of that 75% wouldn't be bad to say at all - it might even be funny.

haha, Well, I was so concerned about making sure people could bring their own bunnies, I forgot what my main point was.

Ok, here is a good example that is more in depth.

I have an old friend who occasionally says insensitive things to me. Part of it is that she is just kind of self-absorbed, and part of it is just that she doesn't really listen to what she is saying. Almost every time I see her she makes either an offhand remark or has a 10 minute rant about how hard her life is because her mom moved to Florida last summer. She knows my mom passed away last year. But she is oblivious to the fact that I am not the best audience to sympathize with her over her "troubles."

In the moment when she does this I get super angry and hurt and sad. I don't want to just "go off" on her because that is just not me. However, I am feeling so much emotion my only option is to kind of wall off myself and not react at all. I want to speak up at the time, but I don't trust myself. Therefore I stay silent. Later, I kick myself and think, ok we NEED to bring this up. I don't think she has any intentions at all of hurting me, so I know if/when I bring this topic up, I will make her feel bad and guilty.

By the time I see her next, I have cooled down, and feel like if I bring it up... That I am making it into too big of an issue. Intellectually I know that I need to say this to her, but it is really hard now for me to do so since the original moment(s) have long passed.

Does that example make more sense?

 

[Anew Leaf]

Well true thing is, when you woman are stressed out you do say all those things nevertheless. And there is no way on Earth to tell a woman that she just is being whiny, without having your head choped in the process.
So you gotta decide if you put up with that as a man. It's how you like it, I think I am more of the "being liked to tortured guy". All these german sodomy pictures on the internet must have a meaning.

Jokes aside: if things bug you, you have to say it and you have to live with the consequences of wanting what is good for you that is part of growing up. Most woman I know from experience tend to put up with every shit their partner does in fear of appearing whiny or in fear of loosing him and being alone. Thats definitly the wrong way and will always lead to more pain.

Yeah, maybe I just need to speak up more and not worry so much about the consequences of doing so. Within reason, of course. haha

 

[FunnyDigestion]

When someone says something obviously offensive (like any reasonable person would know instinctively that it would offend someone), or is picking or nagging at me or being noticeably "conflict-generative" (to coin a phrase), I speak up right away & fix it then. Sometimes I'm too defensive, with bosses & supervisors especially, I'll talk back to them, resist their instructions, etc.

That's the little obvious stuff that's easy to deal with. But when someone's kinda ambiguously overstepping their bounds or doing stuff passive-aggressively or running some drama game below the surface, OR if it's just some confrontation I need to instigate to correct a situation, I waver a lot & am always timid & wary.

 

[FunnyDigestion]

Yeah, maybe I just need to speak up more and not worry so much about the consequences of doing so. Within reason, of course. haha

it seems a lot different for women. If a guy talks back to people, that's just what he's supposed to do & if he overdoes it people usually think even more highly of him. I've noticed that, people will say "that was badass" or something when I can't hold my tongue & end up insulting an authority figure or something. But all the girls I know that do it get called bitches. well... a few of them really are bitches who are always pissed about something, so i dunno.

 

[INTPness]

haha, Well, I was so concerned about making sure people could bring their own bunnies, I forgot what my main point was.

Ok, here is a good example that is more in depth.

I have an old friend who occasionally says insensitive things to me. Part of it is that she is just kind of self-absorbed, and part of it is just that she doesn't really listen to what she is saying. Almost every time I see her she makes either an offhand remark or has a 10 minute rant about how hard her life is because her mom moved to Florida last summer. She knows my mom passed away last year. But she is oblivious to the fact that I am not the best audience to sympathize with her over her "troubles."

In the moment when she does this I get super angry and hurt and sad. I don't want to just "go off" on her because that is just not me. However, I am feeling so much emotion my only option is to kind of wall off myself and not react at all. I want to speak up at the time, but I don't trust myself. Therefore I stay silent. Later, I kick myself and think, ok we NEED to bring this up. I don't think she has any intentions at all of hurting me, so I know if/when I bring this topic up, I will make her feel bad and guilty.

By the time I see her next, I have cooled down, and feel like if I bring it up... That I am making it into too big of an issue. Intellectually I know that I need to say this to her, but it is really hard now for me to do so since the original moment(s) have long passed.

Does that example make more sense?

Yeah, it makes more sense now. I know what I would do, but I have a backTibone and you don't have a Fibackbone. Just kidding! Totally joking. But, yeah, it may just be harder for an INFP to voice their frustration (or even anger) to other people. But, I do think that unless you speak up, the issue won't get resolved. It will just continue to happen every time you see your friend. Just look at it like, "I'm going to punch her square in the mouth (verbally) right now - it's going to hurt a bit and her lip might get a bit bloody - but, then I'll reassure her that she's still my friend - heck, I'll even drive her to the hospital to get stitches in her lip cuz I'm such a good friend (LOL) - and then next time I see her, she won't give me her sob story anymore." Ti says: sometimes you have to take a hardline approach to getting a problem solved. There comes a point where being sweet about it is no longer an option because it's not working - it's not effective in stopping your friend's behavior. You have to go with what actually works and what gets the job done. And then you'll be happy with the results and won't have to listen to the sob stories anymore. And your friend will get over it. Sometimes you do lose a friend or two using this approach, but, the true friends will stick around.

/Ti 2 cents

 

[Anew Leaf]

Yeah, it makes more sense now. I know what I would do, but I have a backTibone and you don't have a Fibackbone. Just kidding! Totally joking. But, yeah, it may just be harder for an INFP to voice their frustration (or even anger) to other people. But, I do think that unless you speak up, the issue won't get resolved. It will just continue to happen every time you see your friend. Just look at it like, "I'm going to punch her square in the mouth (verbally) right now - it's going to hurt a bit and her lip might get a bit bloody - but, then I'll reassure her that she's still my friend - heck, I'll even drive her to the hospital to get stitches in her lip cuz I'm such a good friend (LOL) - and then next time I see her, she won't give me her sob story anymore." Ti says: sometimes you have to take a hardline approach to getting a problem solved. There comes a point where being sweet about it is no longer an option because it's not working - it's not effective in stopping your friend's behavior. You have to go with what actually works and what gets the job done. And then you'll be happy with the results and won't have to listen to the sob stories anymore. And your friend will get over it. Sometimes you do lose a friend or two using this approach, but, the true friends will stick around.

/Ti 2 cents

Haha, *installs new backbone to deal with your post*.

I get what you're saying. I think my problem is that I establish patterns with certain people, and then I get stuck adhering to them even when I don't want to. I don't want to listen to my friend complain about this, and I don't want to be upset about it, but I feel trapped in not saying anything because that is what I have always done with her.

This is just one example to illustrate my main point. But it would be a good step in the right direction for me.

So maybe I just need to (gulp) be more assertive and (meh) speak my mind? Is that the key?! *downs spinach juice*

 

[entropie]

Yeah, maybe I just need to speak up more and not worry so much about the consequences of doing so. Within reason, of course. haha

I think you are quite good at that already, the important thing to me is just that you dont get lost anf for example dont say what bugs you for loves sake. Knowing that as a man would really make me sad as well, cause I'd hate it that my beloved one wouldnt share everything with me. And sharing everything is mandatory in a relationship to me. That's what means romance to me (belated answer to the NT romance thread )

 

[William K]

So maybe I just need to (gulp) be more assertive and (meh) speak my mind? Is that the key?! *downs spinach juice*

Been reading a book on how to be more assertive recently and one of the more interesting things the author says is that being assertive doesn't mean getting your way all the time. It means setting your boundaries and letting others know what you won't do instead of compelling them to do what you want. If you don't do anything in your situation with your friend, she will keep coming to you with her problems. Let her know firmly but without getting angry or whiny that she should stop doing that and explain why it's bugging you. As you mentioned, she probably didn't even realize your reactions.

 

[21%]

INFPs need to start speaking up and stop letting people take advantage of them!

One thing I've noticed is how some INFPs let people stop all over their boundaries, do nothing, secretly get mad and then shut themselves in their room and feel horrible and bitter. This is really not healthy.

I also think a whole lot of offensive/insensitive things can be deflected and avoided by navigating the conversation flow.
"My life has been so horrible since my mom moved to Florida!"
"*sign* I miss my mom."
The friend should 'get the message' and drop the topic. If that still doesn't work, tell her directly that it's still a sensitive issue and you don't want to talk about something that would remind you of your mom yet.

For other things, I think half-jokes are useful. (NTPs are scarily good at this, so we can all learn from them ) A while ago my INFP bf was living with a manipulative, demanding flatmate who always made him buy stuff for her from the supermarket. She paid for the stuff, of course, but wanted him to do the actual buying and carrying because she had 'health problems' and couldn't do it herself. The first few times he helped her, but after a while she was expecting him to do it as a 'duty'. He was very upset about this and tried to avoid her by not hanging out in the living area. One time she caught him in the living area, and he snapped and said "No!" and left the room, which solved the problem once and for all, but they were not on speaking terms for weeks because of that and the atmosphere in the flat was terrible.

Thinking about it, perhaps the whole thing could have been avoided:
"Hey, can you buy this and this for me from the supermarket?"
"I'll try, but I might have a lot of stuff to carry." / "Yeah, but only if it's small enough to fit into the empty space in the bag between my giant liquid detergent and a bag of exotic mangoes *grin*" / "No, I have taken a vow not to support [insert brand] products because they exploit third-world farmers *half-serious look*"
I think people will know it's an indirect no.

That said, I'm not good at saying no myself, especially when people don't take the hint and keep asking bluntly. I usually end up saying "Okay..." and might just go passive-aggressive and say I forgot >_<

 

[Viridian]

INFPs need to start speaking up and stop letting people take advantage of them!

One thing I've noticed is how some INFPs let people stop all over their boundaries, do nothing, secretly get mad and then shut themselves in their room and feel horrible and bitter. This is really not healthy.

I also think a whole lot of offensive/insensitive things can be deflected and avoided by navigating the conversation flow.
"My life has been so horrible since my mom moved to Florida!"
"*sign* I miss my mom."
The friend should 'get the message' and drop the topic. If that still doesn't work, tell her directly that it's still a sensitive issue and you don't want to talk about something that would remind you of your mom yet.

For other things, I think half-jokes are useful. (NTPs are scarily good at this, so we can all learn from them ) A while ago my INFP bf was living with a manipulative, demanding flatmate who always made him buy stuff for her from the supermarket. She paid for the stuff, of course, but wanted him to do the actual buying and carrying because she had 'health problems' and couldn't do it herself. The first few times he helped her, but after a while she was expecting him to do it as a 'duty'. He was very upset about this and tried to avoid her by not hanging out in the living area. One time she caught him in the living area, and he snapped and said "No!" and left the room, which solved the problem once and for all, but they were not on speaking terms for weeks because of that and the atmosphere in the flat was terrible.

Thinking about it, perhaps the whole thing could have been avoided:
"Hey, can you buy this and this for me from the supermarket?"
"I'll try, but I might have a lot of stuff to carry." / "Yeah, but only if it's small enough to fit into the empty space in the bag between my giant liquid detergent and a bag of exotic mangoes *grin*" / "No, I have taken a vow not to support [insert brand] products because they exploit third-world farmers *half-serious look*"
I think people will know it's an indirect no.

That said, I'm not good at saying no myself, especially when people don't take the hint and keep asking bluntly. I usually end up saying "Okay..." and might just go passive-aggressive and say I forgot >_<

Oh man, I do this quite a bit... I imagine it's not exclusive to INFPs, though.

 

[BAJ]

I'd probably write her this note, but I'm sort of lacking friends right now...so I would necessarily follow my advice. Of course, my lacking of friends is a multifaceted thing that is off topic, and has little to do with writing notes. That is, I don't think notes are bad, or if notes are bad, they are so a part of me that I would know how to stop. Also, sometimes I just write notes over and over and then go talk to the person once I've processed my feelings in writing.

Dear friend:
"I appreciate you trusting me with your feelings, but I still miss my mom at times, and when you talk about your mom, I think about how I can never write or talk to my mom again. So when you talk about your mom, it makes me feel sad. I tend to feel a little angry since you don't realize this about my grief, and how this is a sore area. I know you need to talk to someone about your grief, but in this aspect, please talk to someone else."

 

[INTPness]

Thinking about it, perhaps the whole thing could have been avoided:
"Hey, can you buy this and this for me from the supermarket?"
"I'll try, but I might have a lot of stuff to carry." / "Yeah, but only if it's small enough to fit into the empty space in the bag between my giant liquid detergent and a bag of exotic mangoes *grin*" / "No, I have taken a vow not to support [insert brand] products because they exploit third-world farmers *half-serious look*"
I think people will know it's an indirect no.

That said, I'm not good at saying no myself, especially when people don't take the hint and keep asking bluntly. I usually end up saying "Okay..." and might just go passive-aggressive and say I forgot >_<

It's just about being honest and straightforward. If I buy your stuff, I'll have way too much to carry for 1 person. Therefore, sorry my friend, can't help you today. Unless you want to come with me and we'll do it together! Otherwise, I'll be on my way now. Buh bye!

 

[rav3n]

INFPs need to learn to express and assert themselves on a one-to-one basis, without passive-aggressiveness or over-reacting due to accumulated resentment. No one can read your mind.

 

[FunnyDigestion]

INFPs need to learn to express and assert themselves on a one-to-one basis, without passive-aggressiveness or over-reacting due to accumulated resentment. No one can read your mind.

The same is true for everyone though... that has a lot to do with a person's maturity. & I've personally never been passive-aggressive at all, so I'm not sure that's a particular INFP problem. Maybe introverts in general though.

 

[Santosha]

As someone who closely walks the INFP line, I can say that I have not had a problem with expressing my frusteration or dissapointment, whatever, for some time now. But I did run into this from time to time when younger (and less bitchy haha) ..

Here is the thing.. you can't repress that emotion forever.. I know, I've tried. And what ends up happening is that it builds and builds until one day, someone does something fairly silly or small... and WHAM you unload how they've fucked you over for 3 yrs now.. throwing out endless lists of personal failures or undesireable qualities. You've just morphed into a crazed, hostile, ESTJ nazi. And ya, THAT might really freak some people out, considering your disposition the other 99% of the time is mellow and accepting.

Here is the good thing about INFP's.. they are fantastic at conflict resolution for *other* people.. because they are masters of diplomacy. Why do you think that is so? Why can we jump right in and help others see all sides and compromise, when we can't do it for ourselves? Why can we turn into warriors battling for passionate human causes, but allow our own needs to fall by the wayside? Because we tend to be martyrs.. believing we should carry the weight of the world on our shoulders, and we do that because we can. But what is the real root of this? Is this not to say that deep down, behind our love of humanity, our need to make the world a better place.. there is not a voice that tells us we are better? We are more capeable, we know better, we should be held to a higher standard? Why? It is this voice that needs to be challenged. It is this voice that needs to be taught to see objectively. That we are no weaker or stronger, no more or less capeable, than anyone else. That we should not hold ourselves to standards we would not hold another to, and that we should also not accept behaviors or treatment that we would never dish out. This is an equal exchange. Treat others as you want to be treated. Expect what you give. When you come across an in-equal exchange.. you need to carefully consdier why. It almost always links back to the INFP not clearly seeing their own value.

The friend talking about missing her mom -- The next time it comes up I'd probably be like " Ya know, this might seem a little crazy to you.. because we are such close friends, and I love that and want us to be able to talk about anything.. but the truth is I am still very much grieving for my own loss, and it it very hard for me to understand where you are coming from .. because I'd do just about anything to have my mom back and living in florida. So maybe I am not the best person for you to talk to about this. Can you understand that? "