[MBTI General] Hey NFs give me your opinion on ENTPs?

[Resonance]

For you it does. I'm not saying you don't have a valid point, I'm just saying that for some people they may get more out of a teacher that is more antagonistic than cooperative. Besides, there are no "set rules" out there for how a teacher should teach.

And it differs greatly depending on the institution, too. A professor is going to have much less of the time and resources to be like the teacher you described than a high school teacher. If you think you can get a teacher to cater to your individual learning needs all the time, you're never going to be satisfied. But that's just my opinion and how I approach the subject of learning and teaching. It's no better or worse than yours.

Actually, this seems like something which would be ridiculously easy to solve with SCIENCE! Undergrads are by orders of magnitude the most-studied demographic, and it's crazy cheap for universities to do their own research internally like that. I'm sure there are some studies which can tell us if some students learn better from ornery professors or if agreeableness is unilaterally superior. I don't like trawling google scholar on my phone, but perhaps one of you guys could do it for me?

 

[funkadelik]

it appears our miscommunication is a matter of definition.

Yes. I will agree that we are discussing two different points of a very subjective topic.

 

[lane777]

I love 'em for a while, they're so sharp, so funny. But some of them can say/do these things that makes you see them in a much darker light. I can't speak for them all, since I've only met two that I know of. But the two I know seem very warm until you get in the way of their fun, or expect them to take responsibility for something they did wrong. The smile is gone, and they go ice cold with contempt.

!

I experienced exactly that just yesterday. Unreal the lengths she went to avoid having to admit she was wrong. Repeatedly through out the conversation, when I would make a valid point which she was unable to counter, she would change the subject or bring up something that was completely besides the point. Finally I told her we were only arguing in circles and that we should just agree to disagree... for some reason that prompted her to manipulate and guilt me. That's when I hung up...

/vent

I probably shouldn't be posting about it right now. Still fuming.

@ ENTP's

 

[funkadelik]

I experienced exactly that just yesterday. Unreal the lengths she went to avoid having to admit she was wrong. Repeatedly through out the conversation, when I would make a valid point which she was unable to counter, she would change the subject or bring up something that was completely besides the point. Finally I told her we were only arguing in circles and that we should just agree to disagree... for some reason that prompted her to manipulate and guilt me. That's when I hung up...

Ouch...back argument form. You should direct toward this. It's a link to the Great Courses course on Argumentation and Effective Reasoning. Really good course. It teaches you all about argument as a cooperative, learning art that has taken on negative connotation in recent times to suggest disharmony and ornery people, when it's classically been used for growth and exploration of ideas.

Although I guess she might take offense to you telling her she should improve her argumentation skills.

 

[lane777]

Ouch...back argument form. You should direct toward this. It's a link to the Great Courses course on Argumentation and Effective Reasoning. Really good course. It teaches you all about argument as a cooperative, learning art that has taken on negative connotation in recent times to suggest disharmony and ornery people, when it's classically been used for growth and exploration of ideas.

Although I guess she might take offense to you telling her she should improve her argumentation skills.

Anything for listening skills? Also wouldn't hurt...

 

[Domino]

ENTPs are a relief for me. We tend to have instant rapport. For me, they're sweet and self-effacing while being cocky and able, nimble-minded, funny. I really appreciate their need for evolution and for mastery. I have a horror of stagnation and ambitionless wandering.

I'm a weird hybrid of sorts - either the most introverted ENFJ alive, or the most extroverted INFJ. I frequently feel ripped in half between the two - exhibiting both, sometimes at the same time. My twin just shakes her head and lovingly calls me her "challenged" sister.

Sexual napalm, even the girls (and I'm straight). If I meet one, and we hit on all cylinders, it's like someone broke the thermostat and sucked all the air out of the room. The atmosphere takes on an electric hot feel. One in particular, after just a few violently (and mutually) hot moments of knowing him, I wanted to hand him the keys to my body and brain. My ENTP ex - when I met him, we exchanged words, and from there on out, it was "on".

I am strongly drawn to Ne. I think being raised with an ENFP for a sister has acclimated me to that. I can be quiet if I want to with ENTPs, or wild. They seem to appreciate my feral nature, the fact that I bite, and the need to protect me sometimes.

 

[lane777]

Sexual napalm, even the girls (and I'm straight). If I meet one, and we hit on all cylinders, it's like someone broke the thermostat and sucked all the air out of the room. The atmosphere takes on an electric hot feel. One in particular, after just a few violently (and mutually) hot moments of knowing him, I wanted to hand him the keys to my body and brain. My ENTP ex - when I met him, we exchanged words, and from there on out, it was "on".

I picture all ENTP's here as male unless stated otherwise Like a smack in the face, followed by icky feelings, I can't tell you how many times I've found out "he's" a her, after the fact. Kind of looks like this...

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmNObROcBOo"]Sideshow Bob And Rakes[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Domino]

I picture all ENTP's here as male unless stated otherwise Like a smack in the face, followed by icky feelings, I can't tell you how many times I've found out "he's" a her, after the fact. Kind of looks like this...

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmNObROcBOo"]Sideshow Bob And Rakes[/YOUTUBE]

hahahahah!!! That's so cute! And true!

 

[funkadelik]

I picture all ENTP's here as male unless stated otherwise Like a smack in the face, followed by icky feelings, I can't tell you how many times I've found out "he's" a her, after the fact.

Awww *sulks*

 

[Anew Leaf]

I tend to picture all ENTPs as delicious vats of grape jelly until they prove that they can persevere as strawberry preserves.

My best friend in highschool was an ENTP... I miss her a lot. We got into a lot of trouble together.

Actually now that I think about it, most all of the ENTPs in my life have gotten me into trouble at some point or another.

I guess I could be mad about that but then I look into their crazy Ne eyes and I think better of it.

Hmm, where was i?

 

[Xenon]

I picture all ENTP's here as male unless stated otherwise Like a smack in the face, followed by icky feelings, I can't tell you how many times I've found out "he's" a her, after the fact. Kind of looks like this...

I think that happens a lot with all T types, unless we choose an obviously feminine name and avatar. I had no idea it gave people icky feelings though.

 

[redcheerio]

I picture all ENTP's here as male unless stated otherwise Like a smack in the face, followed by icky feelings, I can't tell you how many times I've found out "he's" a her, after the fact.

OK, well I'd better tell you right now that I'm female!! And I'm planning to change my avatar soon so that it won't be so misleading, I just picked it cuz it cracks me up....

 

[Betty Blue]

oooo umm, biggest male influence throughout most of my life = ENTP
a whole shitload of potential balancing on spikes flattering his ego laughing all the while....

 

[lane777]

I think that happens a lot with all T types, unless we choose an obviously feminine name and avatar. I had no idea it gave people icky feelings though.

ENTP's more so than other T types, imo.

OK, well I'd better tell you right now that I'm female!! And I'm planning to change my avatar soon so that it won't be so misleading, I just picked it cuz it cracks me up....

It's not the avatar. ENTP's just come off masculine to me. Sorry

 

[entropie]

Be glad you cant smell a forum >D

 

[Adasta]

The last thing that bugged me is that you thought entps leave you no choice but to agree with them in a discussion. Thats completly wrong, its quite the contrary, entps love exactly the versatility in a discussion and would always try to encourage that. Just because we may talk very harshly sometimes its no attempt to cow someone, it is because we have deep emotions ourself and tho these most often mainifest themselves in passion or anger only and may not be tho nuanced, we develop them and try to get them to know over the course of all our lifes. The only thing that is important to us in a discussion is that the other one understood us correctly. Since Ti and Fi are very opposite often, I experience often with my gf that we just not speak the same language. But it doesnt bother me, I know that she loves me and then she doesnt have to understand everything like I do. I am rather inclined to learn her way and since Fi is a very subjective personal function, it tends to be different in everyone I meet. It's like a roadmap to the past that can tell you what this person may have experienced and how she became what she is nowadays. Its more difficult to see that with entps, what was a problem for my gf; being a walking mystery is no intention of me, it's just because I try to have an impersonal opinion, so I can stay fair in a juridical way.

It's more of the case that I feel that I have to make the ENTP respect me in an argument. This isn't too difficult because INFPs are quite cantankerous, but I see other NFs simply withdraw in arguments/discussions with ENTPs because they feel they are being bossed around. Perhaps this is because, in an odd way, although Fi & Ti might clash, it's also possible for Fi to appeal to Ti. Moreover, INFPs have Ne as an Aux, so we can sort of speak the same language as long as I ensure I'm not too flowery in my expression and we talk about the joy of discovering that je ne sais quoi.

However, the ENTP's lack of Fi and, at times, poorly developed Fe, means s/he can be all at sea when speaking to NFs. ENTPs can seem bullish and argumentative and their inability to appeal to the F element means that the ENTP's playfulness ("I'm just talking about possibilities and ideas!") is sometimes lost; people think the ENTP is just...being a bit of an arsehole, really. This is a bit heartbreaking to watch because, when you know an ENTP, you know that their intention is not to manipulate or harm people because they are, in fact, quite honourable. It's just that their inquisitiveness has no bounds and they are so focused and excited by it that they can "intellectually squash" things or people that are "in the way". ENTP vs. NF discussion can turn into "Why don't you want to resolve this issue?" vs. "Why don't you want to resolve this conflict?"

 

[entropie]

Thanks, finally someone who takes the time and look a bit deeper into entps and not label them as bullish clowns from the start.

I can flawlessy sign everything you said from firsthand experience with my infp. And yes, I still have a lot to learn, especially in communication.. it drives me crazy when I explain an idea to her for about 30 minutes, she then answers with a completly unrelated sentence and I get angry and ask her why she didnt listened and she plays the innocent victim that is hurt because I expressed my anger a little "louder". And I really dont yell or so, its just if my intonation becomes more intense she already feels pissed and she just has to be a little pissed but will react as if all hell was set free just right now, its really a miracle to me how much you can influence the discussion by just finding the right intonation.

but hey that way I managed to get a stationary steel mill into our living room

 

[mrcockburn]

I love their Ne when it makes sense, but the (usually unwarranted) cockiness turns me off. I usually just nod, turn my head and roll my eyes, suppressing a snicker or two, but I let them wallow in it. If I know them well, I'll tease them and say something smartass like "Yes you're Mommy's little Einstein, aren't you?" Sometimes they get somewhat butthurt there, but it's all in good humor - just giving them a hard time.

 

[animenagai]

We get along great. I enjoy their company more when they have a developed F side though. I can deal with crudeness, but I like the soft side to people too.

 

[Frenetic Tranquility]

it appears our miscommunication is a matter of definition. I am aware that some people learn better from competition, antagonism, debate etc, but this is not the same thing as a teacher. people with this learning style don't learn best from a teacher and are often ill equiped to help someone who does learn best from a teacher
PS: in perfect honesty, I don't consider most professors to be teachers. they are informers, but they don't do a lot of actual teaching most of the time

It depends on how into teaching the professors are. Education professors are much better in this regard. Especially education teachers that understand the meaning of constructivism, and use it well.