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[NF] Authenticity - and how it applies to the NFP

Santosha

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So in many of the personality descriptions, I've seen it noted that the NFP values authenticity and genuine behavior immensely. And I find this so true. It kinda got me thinking about a party last weekend, and all the social interaction I encountered and observed. I don't want to say that people are fake, that I am any better than anyone else, but I do percieve a great lack of authenticity in social settings and the work force. I wondered... how might it feel to be behaving in an inauthentic, fake manner.. when someone responds genuinely? Do people that tend to wear these masks feel threatened by it? Do they feel bad? Do they see authentic people as week? Too open or self revealing? Do they even recognize it?

So I started really considering the concept of authenticity. The word itself seems to have debateable meaning.. be more of a perception.. "I perceive this person is not telling me what they really think or feel, that they are giving me a line of bullshit". And in this overly corporate world.. I can see how people might need to put on a mask to function within the system, for I have done it quite a bit myself to keep a job. But what about outside of work? What about friends or family?

Existentialists assert that if an individual is not living authentically in their lives, then they lose meaning and can fall into chronic anxiety, boredom and despair. People might pursue "quick fixes" to avoid the responsibility of living authentically, eg, quick fixes such as anesthetizing themselves with alcohol or drugs, living in fantasies, etc. Others might even assert that it's inauthentic to pursue any approach (programs, books, etc.) that promises to help people transcend (escape?) the responsibilities -- and sometimes drudgery -- of day-to-day living.

But are some of the above examples not also examples of NFP behavior? "Anesthetizing themsevles with alcohol or drugs" or shoes, furniture, travel, food, entertainment, sex, adventure, etc. "living in fantasies" classic NFP.

Look at some of the guidlines to "authentic" behavior

1) Honest -- Speak the truth.
(How many times do we NFP's curtail our true thoughts to avoid hurting people?)

2) Direct -- Speak in terms that are clear, concise and focused.
(This post already demonstrates just how indirect, unclear, unfocused, and inconcise this NFP is =D)

3) About here-and-now -- Speak about what is going on right now.
(I can speak about the here and now, but would much rather speak about the future, and sometimes the past)

4) From you -- Report your own experience of the here-and-now.
(I think I am pretty good with this.. but I find that sometimes others have said it better. I tend to use quotes, metaphors, others words if they can convey more succinctly what I'm trying to)

5) Non-judgmental of others -- Speak about what you are experiencing around others, not of your judgments of others
(The old "your actions are that of a tit-head" vs "You are a tithead" concept. I think its fair to say that NFP's can be very judgemental of aspects of people.. depending on what value was violated)

No specific question.. but curious of your thoughts on authenticity, how you perceive it, and if it is your expereience as an NFP that you tend to be more authentic than the masses? Add whatever you want...
 

Qlip

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Authenticity is definitely paramount to me. I guess in past times I was disgusted by how fake people could be and I assumed they were obscuring their 'true self'. But eventually I learned that other people wear masks naturally, and they have less of a core than I do. I guess this is what Fe vs Fi?

Where did you get your list? I've always worked towards those goals, except for maybe 3) Here and now, I don't understand how that's part of being authentic.

My value of Authenticity floods over into other aspects of my life. I value objects around me that are what they look like. Natural fibers. Functional objects that don't hide their mechanics but present themselves for what they are.
 

Thalassa

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Authenticity is to NFPs like loyalty is to SFJs.

It's something you can typically find, but be careful about saying all NFPs are authentic and all SFJs are loyal, even though Fi + Ne and Fe + Si tend to produce those qualities.

I tend to be honest and direct, I respect people the most who are open and direct with me, and I love the feeling of clearing the air because it makes me feel closer to people.

Stifling myself too much makes me feel unhappy.
 

cascadeco

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Authenticity is definitely paramount to me. I guess in past times I was disgusted by how fake people could be and I assumed they were obscuring their 'true self'. But eventually I learned that other people wear masks naturally, and they have less of a core than I do. I guess this is what Fe vs Fi?

People who wear masks/Fe has *less of a core*? :confused:
------------

What I've never really understood about the whole 'fake' concept is what if one 'fake' person truly believes and values being nice to everyone, and another 'fake' person doesn't have a need to state their opinion in a situation where they know no one else is going to care or it's not going to provide anything constructive, or another 'fake' person bites their tongue and goes to a movie that wouldn't have been their first choice but they know the other person really wants to go.... and so on. If the 'fake' person is being their Authentic selves by the choices they make, even if they appear fake to others, then they're being Authentic based on *who they are*. They'd be inauthentic if they went against all of this just for the sake of being 'authentic'.

Are there universal things that are always Fake/inauthentic? Or is the Fake person being authentic to themselves because that's actually who they are, and they are just deemed inauthentic by those who view them and who have different preferences / modes of expression?

(fwiw, I do think there are people who are all about appearances and really do fall into the keeping up with the Jones' mentality)
 

Qlip

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Oh, I had a delayed thought on the subject. Isn't idealism and authenticty a potentially dangerous combination? On one hand you're trying to achieve a you that is all shiny and perfect. You somehow missapropriate authenticity to mean being true to that ideal. When in fact authenticity is actually being true to the person you actually are, with conflicting impulses and less than idealistic traits.
 

Thalassa

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But eventually I learned that other people wear masks naturally, and they have less of a core than I do. I guess this is what Fe vs Fi?

OMG I missed this. This is horrible stereotyping. They have less of a core than you?

I've been talking about this with an ISFJ a lot (and I also have ESFJ ex who I was close to for comparison) and I don't think either of them are "fake" or "lacking a core," nor are either of them like those boring, conventional people who seem shallow and soulless. That kind of shit is not type related.
 

entropie

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Dont they mean by saying a type likes XY in those type descriptions that he is good at being the opposite as well ? And who on earth can safely say 'all the people around me were behavin unauthentic' ? Doesnt that put yourself on such a high pedastal that other people may wonder if you could get killed by the thin air ?!
 

Qlip

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People who wear masks have *less of a core*? :confused:
------------

I know more than one person who seems to in part the sum of what surrounds them. Their tastes their opinions is mostly a mirror of their environment. I've also seen them change when their environment changes. That's what I mean by having less of a core.
 

Thalassa

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I know more than one person who seems to in part the sum of what surrounds them. Their tastes their opinions is mostly a mirror of their environment. I've also seen them change when their environment changes. That's what I mean by having less of a core.

That's not the difference between Fi and Fe any more than "selfishness" and "empathy" are the difference between Fi and Fe.
 

entropie

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I know more than one person who seems to in part the sum of what surrounds them. Their tastes their opinions is mostly a mirror of their environment. I've also seen them change when their environment changes. That's what I mean by having less of a core.

I am sorry but it isnt even bold no more to assume that person is completly honest with you, thats already dumb :/
 

Viridian

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Question: if one is genuinely averse to hurting someone else's feelings, are they being "inauthentic" by doing something based on that feeling?
 

Thalassa

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FTR, I think I want to give an example of what an SFJ perceives as "soulless" or "less of a core."

My ESFJ ex thinks people who aren't loyal to their family and friends, and people who don't have sexual morals, who seperate their feelings and respect too much from their sexual behavior, are the people who have less of a soul. Also see: people who don't openly express their love and passion.

Anybody can seem to have "less of a core" but people might have different opinions of what that constitutes. My ESFJ ex could think an ENFP who is a particularly big ho-bag has "less of a core" than him, even though they're being "true to themselves."
 

entropie

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i'ld never say someone has less of core thats a debate i can only always loose. dont think nfps need to either. gosh typing on the smartphone is difficult xD
 

Santosha

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Dont they mean by saying a type likes XY in those type descriptions that he is good at being the opposite as well ? And who on earth can safely say 'all the people around me were behavin unauthentic' ? Doesnt that put yourself on such a high pedastal that other people may wonder if you could get killed by the thin air ?!

To the first question, I'm not sure. You might elaborate on why they would be good at the opposite behavior as well. I haven't come across this info.

2nd question.. It is hard to post a discussion on sensing a lack of authenticity.. without it seeming like your putting yourself on a pedestall, it was not my intention. I do not perceive "all people in a work force or social setting as being inauthentic" by any means. I'm saying that it is my perception inauthenticity lies more in social settings and work settings, and I also have my own theories on why this might be. I believe I touched on the idea that authenticity IS a perception, and began looking at the definitions compared with NFP behavior. It is this inconsistency I am curious about.. along with other NFP perceptions.
 

Santosha

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I know more than one person who seems to in part the sum of what surrounds them. Their tastes their opinions is mostly a mirror of their environment. I've also seen them change when their environment changes. That's what I mean by having less of a core.

I totally got where you were going with that, which is why I didn't pick at it. Could of used better words than "less of a core" lol. =P
 

Qlip

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I am sorry but it isnt even bold no more to assume that person is completly honest with you, thats already dumb :/

Sorry.. I didn't catch that. Rephrase?


Anyway... Argg.. I'm such crappy communicator sometimes. If I continue to type I'm just gonna dig myself into a deep deep hole, but I can't leave it. Anyway, what I was trying to say is that I valued things that I considered to be a 'core' (personal terminology) which was what I associated with what was already laid out as authenticity. I noticed not everyone had it and incorrectly assumed I was superior. But in the end it was just a common case of misunderstanding how people worked and assuming the 'other' way was wrong. Also, It just so happens that I also have had run ins with people who wear very very big masks and change them very often.

I dont' really think authenticity is universally paramount, though it is important personally to me.
 

Santosha

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Sorry.. I didn't catch that. Rephrase.


Anyway... Argg.. I'm such crappy communicator sometimes. If I continue to type I'm just gonna dig myself into a deep deep hole, but I can't leave it. Anyway, what I was trying to say is that I valued things that I considered to be a 'core' (personal terminology) which was what I associated with what was already laid out as authenticity. I noticed not everyone had it and incorrectly assumed I was superior. But in the end it was just a common case of misunderstanding how people worked and assuming the 'other' way was wrong. Also, It just so happens that I also have had run ins with people who wear very very big masks and change them very often.

I dont' really think authenticity is universally paramount, though it is important personally to me.

TBF, I understood where you were going with your "less of a core" idea.. meaning less internal reflection. Fi bases its values internally, Fe outwardly. I didn't see it as you saying "Fe's are just all empty shells of a human being" but your right.. you have to watch your words in these parts =P
 

entropie

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i am rembered of the time when bush called europe the axis of evil; meaning i dont think its good valuing people that way. this maybe a societal thing to do but its definitly not very humane or maybe it is, depends on how sarcastic you look at the world
 

Santosha

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Question: if one is genuinely averse to hurting someone else's feelings, are they being "inauthentic" by doing something based on that feeling?

Thats a good point.. variables like these seems to add to my confusion about the concept of authenticity. What do you think?
 

Thalassa

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Question: if one is genuinely averse to hurting someone else's feelings, are they being "inauthentic" by doing something based on that feeling?

No, the way I see it, if you genuinely care about not hurting other people, if one of your biggest priorities is the way your loved ones feel, then you're not being inauthentic at all...you're doing what feels authentic to you, even if it means sometimes keeping quiet.

I think it's inauthentic to pretend you care about someone you don't, though. The ISFJ I already mentioned says he nods and smiles at people he doesn't know well, but is more his true self about people he cares about. The thing is, I do that too and I'm not an SFJ. The primary difference is that I really don't give much of a damn about things like "being embarrassed in public" because my thinking is if those people don't matter to me, then what they think of me doesn't matter, while the ISFJ might genuinely think it's rude to subject other people to that.

So neither way is less genuine. It's just a difference in prioritizing.
 
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